Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB

Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=72)
-   -   Valve Spring Recall > Spun Bearing (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132928)

Natedawg 02-12-2019 12:20 PM

Valve Spring Recall > Spun Bearing
 
Just thought I would add my experience so far with this valve spring recall, as I'm starting to see a couple other people here with similar experiences. I brought my car into my local Toyota dealership, they completed the recall in about 3 days. Then ~300 miles later I hear a hear a rattling noise while driving on the highway. Car proceeds to completely die and leave me stranded.

Luckily the dealership has had really good customer service and sent a truck to pick up my car. Turns out that I have a spun bearing and Toyota is going to cover the repair which requires a new short block.

I don't blame Toyota or the dealership here, as they both are doing everything they can to fix the issues, including providing a loaner car ect. It just sucks that Subaru screwed us over with these valve springs which require a engine teardown to fix (honestly how do you even manufacture bad valve springs? its a freaking spring..)

Right now I wish I could opt to put a real toyota engine in my car and not another FA20, can't say I'd buy another Subaru built car after all of this.

Stang70Fastback 02-12-2019 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natedawg (Post 3185097)
It just sucks that Subaru screwed us over with these valve springs which require a engine teardown to fix (honestly how do you even manufacture bad valve springs? its a freaking spring..)

Right now I wish I could opt to put a real toyota engine in my car and not another FA20, can't say I'd buy another Subaru built car after all of this.

Subaru can't help it if outside suppliers provide/use faulty/sub-par metal in the manufacture of the components they use in their engines. Supplier issues happen. Likewise, I don't blame Subaru for the Takata recall. I mean, airbags have existed for decades, right? Should be simple enough to make one that doesn't murder people!

Doesn't matter how good you are at making something as simple as a spring, if the metal you use to make them is defective to begin with. If it was a manufacturing defect, these things happen too. It sucks that this happened to be a part buried in the engine, and not, say, a lower control arm or some-such, but that's the luck of the draw. The design wasn't faulty.

Tcoat 02-12-2019 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback (Post 3185100)
Subaru can't help it if outside suppliers provide/use faulty/sub-par metal in the manufacture of the components they use in their engines. Supplier issues happen. Likewise, I don't blame Subaru for the Takata recall. I mean, airbags have existed for decades, right? Should be simple enough to make one that doesn't murder people!

Doesn't matter how good you are at making something as simple as a spring, if the metal you use to make them is defective to begin with. If it was a manufacturing defect, these things happen too. It sucks that this happened to be a part buried in the engine, and not, say, a lower control arm or some-such, but that's the luck of the draw. The design wasn't faulty.


This ^

Not to mention that this was a voluntary recall on Subarus part. They were not forced to do it they just did. They could just as easily just said screw you to everybody that had the potential issue and made them pay for a new engine when it went. There are millions and millions of Subarus driving around out there that are problem free so this is not an indication of their whole production or quality.


I am at a loss to understand how the valve spring replacement would cause a spun bearing anyway. Maybe they didn't fill the oil up all the way after the work? Was it just coincidence that the infamous 2013 spun bearing issue happened after the work? On the bright side it means the engine get's replaced for free instead of out of pocket which is what would have happened if the bearing spun before the work was done.


We will hear a few horror stories from the repairs while the vast majority that have the work done with no issues will remain silent. This will make everybody run around screaming that the sky is falling. This is the way of the internet. Yes, it would totally suck to be one of the horror story guys but their experiences should not be considered the norm.

ermax 02-12-2019 01:23 PM

Aside from no oil I can only think of one thing, excessive packing. Similar to other reports of spun rod bearings after a timing cover repack.

At least they are covering it. On the bright side you have a fresh shortblock for free. Hopefully they will not botch the packing on the second attempt.

yelsew 02-12-2019 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 3185121)

I am at a loss to understand how the valve spring replacement would cause a spun bearing anyway. Maybe they didn't fill the oil up all the way after the work?

In my borderline-experienced opinion, I'd say the most likely connection is that when assembling the heads, some sealant made its way into an oil galley, and eventually made its way through the engine like a blood clot on its way to cause a heart attack.

To the OP, I am curious to see what they report from the tear-down, and glad they are taking care of you.

Tcoat 02-12-2019 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yelsew (Post 3185172)
In my borderline-experienced opinion, I'd say the most likely connection is that when assembling the heads, some sealant made its way into an oil galley, and eventually made its way through the engine like a blood clot on its way to cause a heart attack.

To the OP, I am curious to see what they report from the tear-down, and glad they are taking care of you.

Which is exactly my theory as to why some of the early ones spun the bearings without any work on them.

Natedawg 02-12-2019 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yelsew (Post 3185172)
In my borderline-experienced opinion, I'd say the most likely connection is that when assembling the heads, some sealant made its way into an oil galley, and eventually made its way through the engine like a blood clot on its way to cause a heart attack.

To the OP, I am curious to see what they report from the tear-down, and glad they are taking care of you.

This is my guess as to what happened. The only thing I did check after the initial work was the oil level, and it definitely had oil. I was told it lost oil pressure which is what caused the bearing to fail, i'll see if I can find out if the know what caused that.

I am glad they are taking care of it too, can't complain there. I guess it will be nice to have a newly rebuilt engine when its all said and done, although it will take a few thousand miles before I will be able to fully trust the car again.

ermax 02-12-2019 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natedawg (Post 3185189)
This is my guess as to what happened. The only thing I did check after the initial work was the oil level, and it definitely had oil. I was told it lost oil pressure which is what caused the bearing to fail, i'll see if I can find out if the know what caused that.

I am glad they are taking care of it too, can't complain there. I guess it will be nice to have a newly rebuilt engine when its all said and done, although it will take a few thousand miles before I will be able to fully trust the car again.

While you are at it, ask if it was the #2 or #3. #2 and 3 share a main feed. It would also be interesting to know if the pickup screen was clogged with old scrapped off packing.

ermax 02-12-2019 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yelsew (Post 3185172)
In my borderline-experienced opinion, I'd say the most likely connection is that when assembling the heads, some sealant made its way into an oil galley, and eventually made its way through the engine like a blood clot on its way to cause a heart attack.

To the OP, I am curious to see what they report from the tear-down, and glad they are taking care of you.

They leave the heads on so I can only imagine were all the old packing goes as they scrape it off.

Pinoy_FRS 02-12-2019 03:38 PM

Same thing happened to me last night. Not entrirely positive it’s a spun bearing but from my research and your post it’s looking like it. I’ll hear from Toyota tomorrow

Stang70Fastback 02-12-2019 03:58 PM

I've also heard rumors that there are a not insignificant percentage of vehicles returning with issues after the valve spring repair. So it's possible that the techs are doing something wrong, or weren't trained on an extra step, or just that something is going wrong during the repair in general that nobody foresaw. Maybe they didn't explicitly spell out "DON'T LET OLD GOOP FALL INTO ENGINE," in the instructions. Who knows, but someone at one dealership in one of our FB groups said they were actually completely stopping doing the repairs until they got more guidance from Subaru/Toyota due to 10% of the repaired vehicles being brought back with further issues.

ermax 02-12-2019 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback (Post 3185239)
I've also heard rumors that there are a not insignificant percentage of vehicles returning with issues after the valve spring repair. So it's possible that the techs are doing something wrong, or weren't trained on an extra step, or just that something is going wrong during the repair in general that nobody foresaw. Maybe they didn't explicitly spell out "DON'T LET OLD GOOP FALL INTO ENGINE," in the instructions. Who knows, but someone at one dealership in one of our FB groups said they were actually completely stopping doing the repairs until they got more guidance from Subaru/Toyota due to 10% of the repaired vehicles being brought back with further issues.



There are lots of things not explicitly spelled out but a mechanic should know not to let shit fall in an engine without being told. It’s just easy to have crap fall in anyways. Unrelated but I’ve seen a few reports of damaged OCVs. This is something that probably should be added to the instructions. The connectors are in such vulnerable positions.

Rereading the instructions they actually do explicitly tell you not to let packing fall in:
https://i.imgur.com/NUGqx0v.png

The recall instructions are damn explicit about just about everything. It's way more detailed than the original manual. Maybe dealers aren't using the recall instructions and are instead using the manual.

BRZnut 02-12-2019 08:29 PM

And this is why I'm sticking with my opinion that tearing apart good working engines for something that will likely never happen is a dumb way to attack this problem. They should have just planned to fix the issue for free when the unlikely event of a broken spring happens.

NoHaveMSG 02-12-2019 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 3185121)
This ^

I am at a loss to understand how the valve spring replacement would cause a spun bearing anyway. Maybe they didn't fill the oil up all the way after the work? Was it just coincidence that the infamous 2013 spun bearing issue happened after the work? On the bright side it means the engine get's replaced for free instead of out of pocket which is what would have happened if the bearing spun before the work was done.

I was wondering the same thing. They don't even pull the heads for this. Are they pulling the timing cover? Maybe too much sealant there ending up in the pickup :iono:

Quote:

Subaru can't help it if outside suppliers provide/use faulty/sub-par metal in the manufacture of the components they use in their engines. Supplier issues happen.
I remember when I was wrenching on bikes this happened to Yamaha around 06'. I believe their titanium valves were made by Toyota and the heads were snapping off(believe it or not the valves where manufactured as two pieces and then fused). They got a bad rep about Ti valves for years after that even though it was a supplier issue that affected a limited number of bikes.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:01 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.


Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.