FR-S/BRZ Vs. 2015 WRX ride quality
 

Hi guys,

I currently have a 2016 WRX and I'm second guessing my purchase. I drove an FRS before and IMHO it's way more of a driver's car than the WRX I currently have. The thing is, I really need a car with rear seats.

I'm considering selling the WRX and buying a second hand FRS/BRZ along with a daily driver like say an Accord or the new 2016 Civic. I know, owning two cars is a pain but I am considering it.

Only thing is, roads are pretty bad where I am and the WRX is barely tolerable. It bounces a lot on highways to an annoying level. It never seems to settle. It's just a harsh ride for me. This is not the STi version which is even harsher.

When I tested the FRS I didn't have the chance to go through bad pavement to test the ride quality. I know some of the members here have both the twins and the 2015 WRX. Can you shine some light on how harsh the twins ride in comparison to the WRX? I don't think I can handle anything harsher than the WRX. I guess I'm getting too old by this stage.

Any general advice or comment is much appreciated but please no reference to the old (Pre 2015) WRX. The 2015 WRX is a totally different machine.

Um they are loud on any road because they sit just about on the ground. They are rough on nasty roads like you have, very rough. If you want back seats, they really don't have one. They shouldn't have even came with back seats in the first place but probably for ins. purposes. For as low as it sits (to me its pretty low) its not that harsh. I think you will miss the bottom end power because torque is a problem in these cars. Up top they run well, down low they could use more torque, but im comming out of a Mustang GT LOL, its was a torque monster. And honestsly its not that bad given the weight of the car. I can get to 60 pretty quick in my manual transmission

Don't know how old you are but I' m old and I love this little car. It's a breath of fresh air and just makes me alive to drive it. To put it bluntly this car is FUN, just plain FUN.

Ive always thought of WRXs being rally cars. I use to love watching rally on cable and they always did well.

The new WRX has a better ride. Just saying, the seats are cushier, it is farther off the ground, and the suspension is softer.


You can't have "driver's car" without some trade offs. The BRZ is stiff and the seats have little cushioning.

I won't miss the low end torque because it comes with the penalty of a non linear gas pedal. This is my first FI car ever and if I have my way, it'll be the last. I just absolutely hate FI. I'd rather have a slow car over a fast one with FI.

I use to have a Celica GT (only 140 hp) and I'd prefer that gutless car with linear throttle response than the (stump and wait for it) FI engine I have now. Sports cars should be precision instruments, not truck like.

I wouldn't call our cars gutless at all. They swing some pretty big balls in their world. Consider the cars that magazines compare them to. I think they've carved out a path for themselves pretty well. I was pretty shocked after test driving mine. If you strap a blower to the cars there's not much more car you'll need. I'd love to get 200 at the wheels without FI

A few things here:

1) both the frs and wrx have a rough ride, the wrx is a little smoother though.

2) the non linear gas pedal has nothing to do with FI but rather the factory tune. Switching to the cobb map or any other will correct this 30% is 100% issue.

3) As for feeling connected, the frs wins hands down. But if you're looking for a better overall package but arguably less of a "toy" car then the wrx is much better in my opinion. If you have the luxury of owning two cars, and or have a lifestyle where the 86 fits in fine then go for it.

4) As stated above you will likely miss the higher tq, I told myself I wouldn't after trading in my EVO 8, but it was only a matter of time before I did.

There is the wait for the boost and the awkward moments of nailing the throttle and nothing happens for a bit and then wooooosh. I really can't see myself controlling the chassis dynamics in a turn using the throttle. It's just impossible to predict what it'll do. I don't know if this is just the WRX turbo behaving like this but I honestly doubt it. I think it's just turbos in general from what I've been reading before owning it.

I guess I will miss the higher tq. I do love how the WRX pulls like a train on highways even at above 70 mph. It makes overtaking as easy as sneezing.

Hmm, this is a tough choice.

Driver mod needed it sounds like. The WRX has one of the quickest spooling turbo setups available. If you take some classes it might help. HPDE is a great tool to learning car control.


Besides, if you are complaining about turbo spool just wait until you experience torque dip, lol.


Keep the WRX or trade it off on something different, you have already stated you need four seats and a supple ride....it really isn't a hard choice at all.

Also coming to think about your comment, this would mean the STi is way more tough riding than the FRS, right? the STi is definitely way more rough than the WRX.

If that's a quick spooling turbo, I don't wanna know what a bad one is like.

I did drive a Fiesta ST and I had no complaints with the FI of that car.

But anyway, did you own (or own) a 2015+ WRX? how do you the suspension is softer?

Nope, never owned one. I have driven one on a longish test drive. Back to back there is no comparison. It is kind of ludicrous to think a two door sports car with obvious niche marketing towards "drivers" would have a softer suspension than a mass market sedan though. At least in this particular instance.

:iono:

Maybe it's like Sex Panther

http://rippedclub.net/wp-content/upl...estaurants.jpg


:lol:

A set of Bilstein shocks/struts did wonders for the ride quality of an Evo I had. While I don't think the ride quality of my BRZ is bad, I see some room for improvement and will probably get a set at some point. Always an option if you like a car for every other reason but just need to improve the ride a bit.

I did hear that the Fiesta ST is harder sprung than the FRS. What I read is that in order to make a sedan handle as good as a coupe you have to make the springs very stiff. I'm not savvy enough on the reason why.

So yeah wouldn't be surprised to hear of the WRX is stiffer than an FRS. It doesn't seem to be from what I'm reading here. But I bet if they wanted to make the WRX corner like the FRS, they would have needed to make the suspension stuffer than the FRS.



My main complaint about the WRX is highway driving. It seems to hop around a lot.

I need to think about this "supple car+FRS Vs. All-in-one WRX" a bit more.

He's not kidding. It really does seem to go full blast at only 30% of throttle. You need a bit of time to adjust your driving because it always feels like you're driving a motorcycle when everyone else is driving a bicycle. If anything, this car is just too fast.

The spring rates of the WRX are higher according to NASIOC, but spring rates only play one factor in suspension tuning.


You have shocks, the weight of the vehicle, the height of the vehicle, the actual size of the vehicle, even wheels and tires. Lots of factors weigh in to how a vehicle rides/drives.


The new WRX is a high 13 second low 14 second car. If anything it needs more power. The BRZ is in even more of a power deficit.

ah I see. I didn't understand the issue therefore was having trouble making sense of that statement. basically 30% throttle input is the same as 100% throttle input. got it. thanks for clarifying

I have owned both. If you could swing it i would say own both. But since that is likely not reasonable, I guess it depends on how important it is for you to enjoy..as you put it "a precision instrument" sports car. I have a BRZ as a second car, I feel lucky that i can do that. I love that car. But if you honestly need 4 seats and AWD up in your neck of the woods. Then i would stick with the WRX. Yes everything you mentioned is a con of the WRX. However, the WRX is still a great car. I prefer driving my BRZ, but the WRX is way more practical. If, like me you just have to have both....then you have to bite the bullet and own two different cars. Its the only thing that satisfied me. A sporty practical car, and then a true drivers car that is just for me to enjoy when life allows it.

But as for your question about ride harshness, the WRX is a little less rough....but not a huge difference. In fact i would say that the BRZ handles some bumps better. The main thing is the BRZ has less sound deadening, and this sometimes makes it seem like it is harsher than the WRX. I would say the rides are very similar as far as roughness. But the BRZ is just a touch more raw. Of course, ride quality is so subjective....you really should go test drive one on some bad roads and then you will know for yourself.

If you need 1 car and practicality, keep the WRX.

If you can swing a second car in some form or fashion...then get a BRZ/FRS.

The Coupe is definitely more of a drivers car, if you sat in a 350/370z you would want those instead, and it goes on and on!

If you got the money, and want more of a drivers car I recommend this setup:

1) Sparco/Recaro Bucket set with OEM seatbelt
2) Sway Bars
3) Performance Springs/Coilovers

The bucket seat is the best investment I've made and it's the most comfortable seat ever, 5 hour road trip = NO PROBLEM! No exaggeration~

I second the Cobb accessport. It will help with the throttle map, but since you dont seem to be a big HP guy, adding further power may not impress you. The WRX will still have the turbo feeling. I have tracked my 15 WRX and another one a few times. They are fun, but your right you dont really use the thottle mid turn the same way you can in an NA RWD car. I dont mind turbos for city/highway driving, in fact i like them just fine. But on the track, turbos do not impress me. I love AWD on the street, but hate it on the track as well. The BRZ is most certainly more fun to track than the WRX....but the WRX has one of the better feeling power deliveries for turboed vehicles in its price range. That being said, i feel it has tons of lag. But much better than my Evo X or '11 WRX.

you're exactly the person I was looking for. Someone who as both and is using both on a regular basis.

I find the WRX steering to be numb compared to the BRZ. Is this your experience as well? Also, I know they should be practically the same engines minus the turbo, but it does feel like the WRX engine is sluggish in comparison. I'm not talking about power, I'm talking about throttle response and how the engine revs up and revs down.

Also, I would personally classify both as performance vehicles, so why would you need two performance vehicles? why not a cozy DD and the BRZ instead of the WRX which is almost as rough?

I don't mind road noise at all. As a matter of fact, I enjoy raw cars if the engine sound is nice. It's the bumpy highway driving that annoys me.

The reason I'm hesitating against having two cars, is the headache of maintaining two cars. It just complicates life unnecessarily. Also, I travel often on weekends to visit my extended family and it's an inconvenience in this case to have two cars. I'd have to leave one car behind in one city or the other.

My argument for having just the WRX is that it's nowhere near as fun as the BRZ but I'll be using it exclusivity and therefore way more often. So what's better? driving a less fun WRX all the time or driving the more fun BRZ sometimes when most other times you'll be using the supple car for main commuting?

Finally!! someone who knows what I'm talking about when I say turbo throttle is nonlinear. I even stare at the boost needle and see how wacky it gets on throttle. It's nowhere near as precise as a normal NA engine, let alone a good one.

And yes, I personally am not a fan of huge HP. You actually enjoy the car less because before you know it you're hitting 130 MPH when you shouldn't be. I really don't see the point of extra HP on a car you use on the road. Unless you intend to street race which I avoid. I don't tune cars either. I greatly prefer to keep them stock.

This is veering of topic but I see that you've also owned a 20006 Porsche Cayman S. I had a 2005 Boxster S. Mine was unreliable. How did you fare with yours?

I never drove the 350/370z but I never noticed them getting as much love as the twins.

I might go for springs but in that case I'd probably wait a little bit more and see of the WRX suspension would loosen up a bit. It's got less than 1k miles on it so far.

The WRX is the do-it-all car. It makes more sense in terms of practicality.

If 99% of your ownership is just going to be spent commuting through traffic, then just keep the wrx. The FRS/BRZ sucks in traffic and simple city street or long distance commutes.

If you're going to be visiting the track or back roads frequently though, then the FRS/BRZ is the more enjoyable/rewarding of the two. After having already done it, I can't imagine owning an FRS/BRZ just to drive to and from work every day. It wasn't any fun. Straight line city roads with no power or torque. Then the long commutes were crap too. I drove my FRS from Oklahoma to Arizona, to California, to Vegas, to Arizona, and back to Oklahoma within a 2 week period. About 10hrs into the initial trip from OK to AZ, I wanted to drive off a cliff and kill myself. So uncomfortable.

Get it on a nice back road or a track, and the car comes alive. That's what the car is meant for.

To give you an idea, I went from a 2012 WRX to a 2013 FRS to a 2016 STI. Huge differences between all three. My STI took everything I loved about the WRX and FRS and put it all together. For every day use, I'll take my STI over the FRS any day of the week. Probably would take it over the FRS on the track too. However, on a back road, I still prefer the FRS over my STI.

That should tell you something.

Thanks! very helpful post

Between the STI and the FRS, which one was harsher on bumps? and which one had a better ride quality on highways in terms for having a supple ride?

Also, do you have any input on comparing the STI to my WRX? for what it's worth, I never considered the STI solely because of price tag. I know it has better steering and better gearbox. Also the AWD is more sophisticated. But simply the price tag alone ended it for me.

Pardon me Raven, but I've been reading this thread:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...=66340&page=28

And I noticed you listed the cons of the FR-S and mentioned

"driving is rough, and you feel every bump"

as a con for the FR-S but not for the WRX. So is it significant that it's a con for the FR-S but not for the WRX? or you feel like it's a con for both vehicles?

both I guess, just more noticeable on the FRS. I would expect any sports car to have somewhat of a harsh ride, the wrx is just more tolerable.

In terms of ride comfort, from most comfortable to least comfortable:
VW GTI
Focus ST
WRX
STI
FRS

The difference between the STI and FRS in terms of comfort is marginal though. I think the seats in the FRS/BRZ are a bit better, but it's so much louder in the cabin at speed. Also, since it's small and lighter, I think the bumpy road surfaces are just exaggerated that much more. So, there are trade-offs, but I'll take my STI for a cross country trip long before I take an FRS/BRZ again.

I made a review/comparison thread here:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91845

A lot of people have used this thread to help with their decisions in switching to a WRX/STI. All your questions and many more have been answered there. Read through the whole thread and maybe you'll have an easier time with your decision.

I do my very best to remain unbiased to be straight up and transparent. I won't defend my purchase to anybody, because I have no reason to. I pay for the car every month, nobody else does. I had my reasons for switching. I had reasons for wanting to keep the FRS. In the end, the STI made more sense than the FRS for my wants and needs.

I'll also say that the WRX is definitely the better buy/better value compared to the STI. If you have no intention of going to the track, the STI is really a waste of money.

Our roads or a least some of them where we live are soooo terrible so when we bought our 86 even I was finding it very uncomfortable on some of the roads we travel.

My mates WRX STi was just as bad if not worse on same roads

Did alot of research on suspensions for it and finish up settling for the Tog coilovers and there is just no comparison the car rides so well it's a pleasure to drive with the shocks set at the softer setting 4 for general driving and you can up the setting for more spirited drives .

I think if you are that concerned with ride comfort you will have to do suspension like I have to get the ride your after .

Neither are stiff to the point of being harsh. They're stock sporty cars. C'mon.

WRX is mighty comfy, it's more comfy then say a civic Si.

I find the WRX steering to be numb compared to the BRZ. Is this your experience as well? Yes, but only when compared to my BRZ or Miata.


Also, I would personally classify both as performance vehicles, so why would you need two performance vehicles? why not a cozy DD and the BRZ instead of the WRX which is almost as rough? Easy enough for me to answer, I dont find the WRX that rough. But i AX and do HPDEs on the weekend, so I am used to harsh cars. WRX is my practical car, BRZ my track car. If a car is too cozy i get really bored driving, and i love to drive.


So what's better? driving a less fun WRX all the time or driving the more fun BRZ sometimes when most other times you'll be using the supple car for main commuting? For me, if i could only have 1 car...it would be the WRX. Great value in my opinion. For you, I couldnt really say. You need to go test drive the BRZ again and hopefully that will help answer the question.

This is veering of topic but I see that you've also owned a 20006 Porsche Cayman S. I had a 2005 Boxster S. Mine was unreliable. How did you fare with yours?
I loved mine actually, eventually i went to an 09 987.2 Cayman S. I think the Boxster/Cayman are great vehicles. I have been lucky, and have not had any reliability issues. However, as great as the P-cars are I enjoy tracking Miatas, BRZs and even an S2000 just as much maybe even more. And all of those vehicles are cheaper to track, soooo......for now i stay with them over another Porsche.

This is 100% true. OP, keep this in mind. Moving up to the STI will not give you a WRX that feels like a BRZ. It will give you a more serious, track ready WRX. But it wont magically give you less weight and only two doors and the driving behavior of a RWD car.

How long have you had the WRX OP? and from what car are you coming from?

Sometimes you have to detox from your old car, and get acclimated to your new one. This is coming from a guy who has owned a lot of cars. When i go from my BRZ to my WRX, i really feel the lag in my WRX. But when i go from my truck to my WRX, the car feels sharp as hell and the lag is never on my mind.

IIRC the BRZ & WRX have the same ground clearance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Back to back I test drove the 2016 WRX and then the 2016 BRZ when I was researching new cars. The BRZ's awesome steering and handling made the WRX feel sloppy. Didn't drive over too crappy roads so I couldn't really compare harshness.

Power in the WRX was awesome but I'm also used to turbo lag and a delayed throttle response (two separate things) from driving a turbo 1.8T VW for 12 years. Lemme just say you'll get used to it (whether you like it is another issue though). I hated the lack of immediate throttle response in my turbo VW at first (had a NA Honda before that). But your driving habits will adapt and you'll learn to start mashing the throttle a little before you would in a NA car. With the BRZ now I have to get used to mashing the throttle when I want it verses mashing on it a half second before I actually need it like in the VW. Not sure if that last sentence will make sense. Even when I had to drive another car, like my mom's crappy '02 Sentra (NA), I'm constantly surprised at the immediate throttle response, and it makes me realize just how much throttle delay I've gotten used to. But I did get used to it, you just end up playing with the throttle differently than a NA car with immediate response.

Have you tried changing sport modes on the car yet? Maybe that will help with some of the throttle response issues??

As far as getting 2 cars, it is more of a hassle than just one car but it is convenient when one is getting worked on and you still have a ride. And with my 2, I have race car sports car awesomeness when I want it (BRZ), and a more comfortable, lazier, convenient 4 door, still semi-sporty drive when I want it too (in the VW, although with turbo lag, and a delayed throttle response). I'm glad I went in the 2 car direction rather than just getting the WRX (would have sold the VW if I got the more expensive WRX). Just my $0.02.
:burnrubber:

WRX - 58.1″ Measured height


BRZ - 50.6" Measured height


They have the same ground clearance, but that doesn't mean anything when the seats are quite a bit higher off the floor. I guess I should have been a slight bit clearer.

This. I completely agree. I dont think I will ever go back to owning just 1 car. Unless life makes me. I would always look to own a second car even if it was just a junker to have fun with.

Actually i have owned up to 5 at one time. A few miatas and such. Now i currently own 3. But the wife pretty much runs my Golf R 90% of the time. So now i only get to play with 2 cars. Life is rough like that. :)

I'm not replying to the height of the cars.
The ground clearance is advertised to be the same by Subaru. Further more the spring rates are higher on a stock WRX. Softer isn't the best word to describe the ride quality.



Also no one has spoken about the differences between 2015 MY verse older MY Twins. Subaru allegedly strengthened the chassis and soften the suspension. Many members have reported this. Something to think about looking at secondhand twins.


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Like I said, you are right about ground clearance but that doesn't mean anything when the seats are higher on the inside of the vehicle itself. The WRX is easier to get in and out of.


The spring rates are higher, yes. It is a heavier sedan and they have to do that to make it handle like it does. Having said that it doesn't necessarily translate to a rougher ride. There is more to account for than simply spring rates.

The non STI WRX is a mass market sedan. They have to make trade offs to appeal to the general public. Cushier seats, fairly compliant ride.... its softer.