Turbocharge vs. Supercharge vs. None
 

Hey guys, I'm not currently looking to turbocharge or supercharge my new BRZ, but just for future knowledge what would the best option be? I've seen many people say to turbocharge and others to supercharge. I would like some of your opinions. Thanks!

There are literally years of discussion on this topic. You should probably read through some threads and then post a new one if you have a specific question about either method or specific kits.

The short answer is that there is no universal best option.

-Justin

None without the proper research based on your goals and direction you want to take with your car..

First off, when you say best... How are you defining "best"? Best at what? Whp gain? Ease of maintaining?

There's been multiple discussions on this and it comes down to personal preference. Take a ride in as many boosted options as you can. That's the most helpful advice I can give you.

Supercharger.

Thanks guys. I've been looking and reading. Also doing some research on the topic, but just wanted your opinion on it especially if you own a turbo or supercharged BRZ.

Funny thing is, I seen exact same thread back in club rsx days to all the way to mr2 forum days.

Turbo vs S/C vs NA vs SEARCH
 

-_-

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...38/731/0fc.gif

Seriously though, whichever method you choose to boost will depend entirely on your needs. The majority of this forum, however, will choose or have already chosen an S/C.

Why not both? #twincharged

Which ever route you take, will depend entirely on how much power you want to make and how you want to make that power. If you want the car to feel linear like stock go supercharger, if you want room to expand and want that feeling of boost kicking in and kicking your butt then get a turbo. I personally love my jdl turbo kit on the car, it adds that missing drama that the car needed.

Depends on what you plan to do with your car; there is no "best".

Hypercharge dat shit yo

What it comes down to is your power goals and budget. If you want the most bang for the buck, V8 swap with a some forced induction.

Save this thread?
 

Could we try to save what I think is a very useful thread before everyone just pushes it aside and says, "do more research" ?

How about details as to why you chose a supercharger. Also, do you have an opinion as to the type you think is best and why, roots, centrifugal, or screw?


Could you give some details about why you think someone would choose one or the other? That way we might be able to learn something in a short period of time that would prompt us to do some more targeted research. You can see that Cojonudo has been trying:



I think this is the kind of evaluation/comment that could be helpful in answering this useful thread:

I have read a lot about this topic as well, but very few people who detail in a post why they chose, or advocate, one solution over the other. When they do, it is usually buried deep in a discussion that is really about some other specific topic.

Here is another example of a USEFUL comment of this type (but on the topic of tires):

If you see only a few snows each year, then all season tires are all you need. If, however, you see a lot of snow and ice all winter long, then winter tires would be your best option.

Do whichever one is locally supported that you like. Though a well designed turbo system will always be better in every way but you don't have any options for them in the US really. Move to Australia. We'll sort you out.

Basically do research into the possible issues with kits, figure out your goals, ride in some to see if you like how they drive and then pick which one you like. The Internet has a million opinions of both people and companies trying to validate their purchase or tell you how good their product is.

I was asking for a response from the OP so I could give more "targeted" advice.

But if you would like a more general run-down:

Superchargers and turbochargers have similar purpose, but different characteristics. Superchargers are engine-driven so they are much more responsive. Turbochargers are exhaust driven so they generate more net horsepower.

Because superchargers are more responsive to throttle inputs, they are often favored in forms of racing where that's an asset. AutoX is one such sport. Torque delivery nearly as instant as a normally aspirated engine is beneficial when you are constantly going from corner exit to corner entry. Some also like the response for predictable steady-state cornering on track.

Superchargers come in two major flavors: Centrifugal and Positive Displacement. Centrifugal blowers look like turbochargers, and like them, they make more torque at higher RPMs. Positive displacement blowers deliver a speicifc volume of air across most of the RPM range and tend to make more torque at lower RPMs at a small expense at the top end. Driving style and type of racing will dictate which power band is more beneficial to have.

Turbochargers, being exhaust driven, make more peak power than superchargers because they are driven by the waste energy in the exhaust rather than taking power directly from the engine. The trade off is that the impeller inside the turbocharger will take time getting up to speed. This introduces some lag time between throttle input and the onset of torque. The nature of this means that a turbocharger excels when the throttle is held open for long stretches, but falters when the throttle is being opened and closed frequently. This means turbochargers are favored in drag racing and track days.

There are of course exceptions to everything above; these are just broad brush strokes to give a foundation of understanding. For example, AutoX drivers may prefer a turbo to a supercharger BECAUSE of the lag, as the lower torque when they put their foot down can assist in maintaining grip at corner exit.

I was looking at the Crawford Performance plus 100 turbo kit or the Vortech Supercharger kit. Anything I should know about these?

What level of design and engineering are you talking about? Locally, in the town I live in, we have Full Blown Motorsports and Modern Automotive Performance. Both have a big presence on the site and many proponents.

I, personally, would disagree with this. Throttle response is HUGELY important to me, and a turbo system short of something out of a WRC car will always feel lacking compared to a PD blower. And I don't think the average car owner would be willing to commit to the upkeep a similar system would require.

But that's not a concern for a lot of drivers. In their case, I can see them agreeing with you.

Vortech is good, but I've heard plenty of bad things about Crawford. But look into both of those threads individually. Though you you still need to explain what your motives/ purpose are to help us (and yourself) narrow it down.

I'm not looking to race with it at all I would just like a bit more horsepower so if I step on the gas I can be like "Wow that was fun!" You know that rush and automatic smile you get when you just feel the car and the power it has. But I am definitely not looking to drag race or anything haha. I hope this helped answer your question if not feel free to ask me anything else!

Ok that helps. Do you want it linear like NA, or do you want a kick like a turbo?

I would honestly like a kick like a turbo. I love that rush and feel! Thanks for actually taking the time and helping me out, I appreciate it!

Let us say I know of one that makes the above resemble a Chinese Product. And another which puts their track reliability and throttle response to shame. The above aren't bad for sure. But these two are kits that have been under heavy RnD by extremely knowledgable people for the entire life of the 86's and only have been released when they knew that not a single problem was present with anything in the kit. Mind you these are in the 6-8k usd for the turbo kit alone. They don't come with pumps and all that kind of stuff. Mind you they are Australian made and that jacks the price up a little since our wages are significantly higher here.

A PD Supercharger does have instantaneous response and a traditional Turbo FMIC setup does not. With any throttle at all this one makes some boost and has no lag. In all honesty if you totally release the throttle and floor it trying to feel the lag its almost not there. The only place you'd ever feel it commonly driving on a track would be places where you go from full brake/coast to full throttle which is how often? You'r

Put me in the "none" category. Just downshift and run 'er in the fun zone. It's a go kart. There's plenty enough under the hood.

So, you're saying supercharge will give me more bang for my buck?

What this guy said.

Make the car your bitch and downshift to 4th or 3rd, keeping the RPMs over 4k to 5k. Just listening to the engine scream and the exhaust roar (not stock) is so damn satisfying.

A Supercharger is generally cheaper. But has less headroom generally. For a pretty reliable car with a hell of a punch that'd be excellent on the track. I would definitely recommend something like the Jackson Racing Supercharger. Don't get the Kraftworks kit unless your willing to deal with the issues they have had. Thats where the research comes into play. These are Positive Displacement or basically The compressor side of a turbo thats belt driven. They love to rev and any existing headers etc can be kept. The other options that seem to stand out are the Cosworth/Harrop SC that are a roots style that give tons of low torque but do tend to fall away up high. These can be excellent if its a street car that you want that overtaking kick without dropping to many gears.

A turbo can be a little more pricey sometimes but since power is often higher, things like clutches, gearboxes etc can add to price. All are good options. But honestly out of the American options. Only the Jackson racing so far has been 99% problem free to my knowledge and don't have heat issues which makes them great for the track. (Not including Cosworth/harrop since they are newer to the market) Everything gives you a good kick and it comes down to exactly which one you like and what is available.

Do you have a tuner (dyno) first. This should be the #1 investment because a good dyno guy can give more gains than anything else in terms of drivability. Get a good one whose worked with a ton of different kits. They will often have insight about many kits that you may not know of. Just make sure hes not a tuner that wants to sell you something.

What do you think of the Vortech Supercharger is it as reliable as the Jackson Racing? Thank you for your insight!

It really doesn't matter which way you go if your only adding 100hp over stock.
I promise you 1 thing tho, as sure as you are bored with your car stock you will get bored with 100hp.


If I were you I would go turbo, it leaves you room to grow. Look at a Spencer Fab kit. They have one that has the fattest torque curve I have ever seen.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...43#post2485743

What was with the second run on that dyno. I would of expected alot more. was the dyno calibrated differently because it barely makes more power than mine on 7 psi. (18kw more)

If you're looking for better acceleration and the sensation of acceleration, get smaller diameter wheels and/or shorter rear end gearing. Add an exhaust so it feels like the engine is doing more.

-Justin

Yeah I was looking at a Borla Catback #140496 Exhaust

It was a Land Sea (Loading Dyno) not a Dyno jet (Inertia dyno) So to get a Dyno jet number you have to multiply by 1.17 so.


HP 291 x 1.17 = 340.47

TQ 240 x 1.17 = 280.80 Dyno jet


NOTE: I used the standard Mustang conversion number it should be the same or very very close.

Yeah I just went by the fact that as stock it was about 15% higher than our dynos read and the final fun by that factor would give something in the range of 190kw. Mine runs 170 at 7psi and if we went for an internet tune we could run close to 200. Mines made to run basically your 91 I guess.

Turbocharge vs. Supercharge vs. None
 

I'm gonna advocate for N/A.
I've had a few S13's that were turbo swapped and while it was fun, it wasn't as predictable at the limit as N/A. I had more fun last week doing figure 8's in the Fr-s that I ever had in the 240's because the instant response it has. With a turbo it was more like mash the gas and wait for the push with NA it feels way more modular and controllable.

I say invest turbo money into; headers, e85 tune and sticky stock sized tires then put the rest into seat time. Still not fast enough? Change to a 4.88 final drive🏎

Plus your car won't have as much downtime/repairs as forced induction🤓

It seems you should read more and i recommend you to start with header, front catback intake E85 and final drive 4.7
After that and reading more i recommend you contacting a good tuner like Mike (moto-east) for supercharging .

Thanks! I'll definitely take that into consideration. What do you think about the Vortech Supercharge kit?

Vortech is good , Many people in this forum have more knowledge than me and i just share my summury about supercharging.
Good power gain is result of good tune and you should focus on finding best tuner instead of finding the kit.
Jackson racing and cosworth are both good in my idea and Mike base map from Moto-east is a reference for many tuners.
I highly recommend you to put more time for reading this forum before starting the project.
remote Tuning supercharging or turbocharging has more risk than NA remote tuning. I highly recommend to be careful in choosing tuner if you have no access to local tuner.