Uphill starts: parking brake vs riding clutch for a sec
 

Which should be done and why? Just trying to pick up the best habits. :cool:

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EDIT: For those reading this for the first time please read the following as satire due to the nature of the question. And be warned that I did indeed know where the thread would go and it went exactly there.

Shitdisturber.


For the sake of starting the debate.


I have never pulled a hand brake for a hill start in my life.


Back in the day (sorry Humfrz) most cars didn't even have them and if you tried to use the floor parking brake you would probably fail horribly.


If you can't manage to move your foot from the brake to the gas fast enough to prevent rolling backwards then you should buy an automatic.


Once again I can probably tell exactly how this thread will go!

Thanks. This is my first ever shitpost where I was actually also serious. A hybrid if you will.

let out the clutch halfway...right before it grabs...rev it to around 7100 RPM and ever so slowly let the clutch out the rest of the way. works every single time.

learn both use both. handbrake is usually used when there is little room to roll back. Otherwise, drive regularly

Let's hear from those who live in San Francisco...and actually drive within 'The City'




Personal note: First time I sat in an FRS I noted the placement of it's hand brake was just perfect, like no other car I'd ever been in. Must
be they expect me to actually use it, and often.

Uphill starts: parking brake vs riding clutch for a sec
 

You do both & you should always.


Unless it's just a gradual slope.




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That was why you got a hybrid answer.

Also never pulled the handbrake in my life for hill starts, nor have I ever heard that recommendation before this forum.

Try placing the car in neutral for uphill starts...I hear it saves un-necessary wear and tear on the flux capacitor, prone to breaking under torque, the FR-S flux capacitor, very prone indeed :D

They didn't drive there prior to handbrakes?
You gonna try to convince me that the truckers driving there use handbrakes?


If guys can move a 15 ton truck on a hill without using a handbrake then surely people can manage their 2700 pound cars.


There is zero need to use a handbrake on any incline and the whole concept of using it as such is actually relatively new. Part of the MT mystic in North America I guess.


In one of the other multitude of threads on the subject the Europeans clearly stated you would fail your road test for using it and San Francisco ain't got shit for hills compared to half of Europe.




Ahhhh damnit this thread made me flame on.
Sorry

Race car YO. Got a super on my turbo, 900hp, 1/2 inch clearance, JDM everything, I will kick everybody's ass on the track or street and .....Ahhhhh shit I had to stop on a hill. Better use my handbrake so I don't roll backwards.


I just don't get it.

Spot on. I drive 40+ ton trucks, we literally cant use the park brake for take-offs due to the design of the air system, I mean, you can do it if you like but it doesn't do the truck any favors. We do however have a little trick with high torque diesels where you release the clutch just a little before you take your foot off the brake, this holds the rig nicely in place allowing a beautiful smooth takeoff even on the wildest inclines, but shhhh! we don't want mere mortals knowing our secrets! :bellyroll:

http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/...psi790l726.jpg

Option C is, of course, the 'other reason' to learn to heel-and-toe.


I will use the hand brake when I am feeling lazy or some douche is too close to my bumper. But on most non-San Francisco grade hills, I will just do a little fancy footwork.

[QUOTE=chaoskaze;2480792]You do both & you should always.


Unless it's just a gradual slope.




This.
Be prepared to drive anywhere under any condition with the tools you have. For some reason I keep hearing americans calling it the "Emergency Brake". I also hear "parking brake" a lot, I guess the floor based ones (have never seen one in person) changed the usefulness and nomenclature.

^^That is the only correct answer.

Sorry @Tcoat, but you're wrong. You can drive however you like of course, but the correct way to start moving up a hill so steep that it has been necessary to apply the parking brake in the first place, is:
Apply the right amount of gas, then smoothly disengage parking brake and release clutch at the same time.

It requires some practice to get it just right, but when you do you get a nice forward acceleration with no backwards movement at all, and no clutch wear. At any incline.
This is especially important on ice and snow, and especially when driving heavy trucks. You want forward momentum building up as smoothly as possible, and the parking brake is essential for that.

Wow Sar we disagree twice in one night! That has to be a record (not sarcasm)


I disagree that there is ever a time you HAVE to use the brake.

Drive in SF once every couple of months, using the handbrake doesn't hurt anything at all and I can't keep the car rolling back by slipping the clutch alone, hills that steep will stall the car and the car will roll back and nobody gives an inch. I'll take someone on the internet calling me a pansy over an insurance claim any day, maybe someday I'll be good enough to move my foot that quickly, today is not that day.

I'll be sure to snap a pic next time I'm there, don't care how good you think you are, when all you can see outside your windshield is sky it's pretty unnerving.

Edit: why dismiss a tool available to you? I don't need that ratchet, this box end wrench is all grandpappy needed and its good enough for me too!

You've been wrong twice in one night, that has to be a record for sure :thumbup:

DANG! @Tcoat ........ you got me there.

Even the Model "T" had a hand brake ........ and I don't go back any further than that ....... :)


humfrz

You want best habits, this is it. Anything other than a very gentle slope always do it by the book.

In the movies, prairie wagons and stage coaches have handbrakes.

The struggle to drive a standard trans is ever apparent on this forum. You guys have to think way too hard to drive these little cars. I just came back from SF and didn't once even have to worry about it. You get comfortable enough with a manual and you can drive anything anywhere, period. Handbrake is for parking or the drifting and stance crew.

Seriously, the whole when do you downshift into first, how far do I press the clutch down, do I decelerate on neutral or keep in gear?... How many ice hockey players have to discuss how to start or stop on ice skates when going for the puck? None, it all just makes sense and works in practice.

Gonna have to sorta disagree with you, @Tcoat.

I know its a fringe case, but both my old FRS and new BRZ have had 6-puck clutches and they will absolutely embarrass the driver on a hill start. There is no way short of launching the car to get it to get moving easily on a steep-ish hill and as such, I use the e-brake. Now, 95% of the time, I do it the normal way, but I can't say that there is never a time where the e-brake is necessitated.

But as far as OP's question goes, you should be able to handle just moving off with the clutch in most cases. Especially with the very forgiving stock clutch.

Yep, even the first car that I ever built had a hand brake.


Actually, it was the ONLY brake ...... :eyebulge:



humfrz

That's anecdotal and straw man arguments. The only valid statement in there is "Handbrake is for parking", which is correct.
It is supposed to be released when you're ready to move. In careful coordination with application of throttle and release of clutch, if the incline is steep.

The fact that there are other ways that work most of the time is irrelevant. Learn to do it right, then chose not to.

lol alright. It is difficult to argue with your logic nonetheless.

I do suppose I'm a bit biased - i drove an unsprung 6-puck clutch for 5 or 6 years. It had a ford 9 swap in the rear and there was no parking brake. I drove the car as a dd without incident until it finally found it's resting place in my garage on stands when I bought the FR-S.

A good read and a few good laughs was worth vising this thread! :thanks:

I learned to drive stick in San Francisco and honestly the handbrake isn't necessary unless I'm bumper to bumper and don't want to risk an accident or I'm having an off day. It's fairly simple to get the car going with just some quick footwork. You'll get the hang of it.

I'm surprised to find people saying there's a definite right or wrong way to do something as simple as take off on a hill. If you want to use the park brake then use it. If you don't want to use it then don't. Theres nothing wrong with using a little assist every now and then the same as theres nothing wrong with someone knowing their cars capabilities well enough and being confident enough in their own abilities not to need it. Each to their own people. Peace :party0030:

I use the handbrake technique only if person is riding on my back bumper or the hill is immensely steep.

Yeah, me too. There's probably been full years when I haven't pulled a handbrake at all.
But I know how to do it when it becomes useful. Which is my whole point.

Peace everybody, I'm out of this thread :-)

Yep. There are different scenarios that call for both methods. The handbrake is very convenient and I use it a lot with uphill starts.

Some cars (Audi R8) actually have a feature called Hill Hold Assist with the manual cars. On a substantial incline, the car will automatically apply the brakes momentarily until you start to move forward.

The way I learned was to let off the clutch just enough to where the RPM will drop slightly. This should be enough to hold the car while you move your foot from the brake to the gas pedal.

Ahhh there are always exceptions to a rule. I am referencing stock vehicles with stock equipment. Once you change things up then all bets are off.

We have hills where I live that even an auto will roll back on. The type of hills where can't see the stop sign ahead because you are looking in the sky. They are rediculous. I don't get either of the cars on them. One of them goes out into a 4 way with no turn arrows only lights from two shopping centers. People stop at the bottom of it, which is only 10' (gives you an idea of how steep it is) because you can't see all the lights and traffic from three ways

This feature used to annoy me with my old STI until I got used to it. None of my previous manual cars had this, so it was second nature for me to engage the clutch very quickly on steep hills. Then I'd switch to driving my STI and nearly stall the car from a stop because it'd hold the brakes for a second when the car was pointed uphill (basically the worst possible time if you're not expecting it). It worked great when I finally got used to it, but even then it'd always take a bit of faith trusting the hill-assist would hold the car when I let off the brakes pointed up a big hill with cars behind me! It never let me down though.

I have never once used a handbrake to uphill start a car. It isn't necessary or needed. I never ever thought this was a "thing" people thought of.


On the flipside my daily is an 09 forester with a manual and it actually holds the brakes for a few seconds when it senses you are on an incline. I obviously NEVER rollback with that system but it took a long time to get used to being lazy on hills. I don't think I actually like it, but it has helped out a couple times (Chicago underground parking garage springs to mind) where I was doing some "serious" clutch work.

If someone is so close that you need to use the handbrake, just let your car roll back and hit his/her car. That'll show 'em.

Well it looks like we are at about 50/50 for and against so it is obviously more a matter of personal taste or want vs need.

Also rereading I was struck at how nasty my comments come across. Please rest assured that they were not written in anger or contempt but only appear that way. For example my "if you can't do it you should get an auto" was intended to be tongue in cheek satire of the MT Yo guys but when I go back to it now I just seem like a jerk. I guess there is really no way to write in such a debate where it doesn't appear you are angry or being a condescending, pompous ass even if that was not how things were intended.
My apologies to anybody that interpreted my posts as stronger than intended.