If the S2000 were to return, would you guys be excited?
 

Yeah, I know I know, more rumors. But autocar.co.uk doesn't really say things without any ground and I would like to believe they're a more "legit" than lets say... the infamous motoring.au.

Anyways, http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...zda-mx-5-rival

I'm excited for other people. I will never now, or in the future, own a convertible but the S2000 is legendary for a reason.

:popcorn:

I would be lying if I said I wasn't doing the same.

If Honda offered an actual coupe version, definitely. I would consider trading in my FR-S for it in 4-5 years.

If just a convertible, it wouldn't bring more to the table than an ND Miata for how I'd use it (street only, no track), so I wouldn't be that excited personally.

Do you have an automated script to automatically add popcorn to every thread that you read?

It is better then just writing sub hahaha! I like to come back and read threads after there has been some posts

True S2000 successor? 150-300 hp, 2,200-2,800+ lbs, low practicality, relatively high price point? Cool. Would I buy? Nah.

S660 or slightly upsized very light mid-engined derivative for less $$$ than a Camry truly worthy of the Honda S___ name? :drool:

Just my armchair quarterback opinion.

Edited to reflect more reasonable power/weight

Nah. I already have an NB Miata. Through it, I learned I don't really like convertibles. I keep it for the same reason I keep my Toyota pickup. It costs very little to keep around and there may be the occasional time when I need or want it, such as when cruising with the top down might be fun. For instance, it *is* a great way to look at Christmas lights in those neighborhoods/parks that have big light displays. Plus, it's a great handling RWD, MT car.

I want more information on the rumored "mini nsx" that is said to be in the mix.

http://jalopnik.com/new-honda-s2000-...-by-1746708009

I'd like to think Autocar is more reputable than...*shivers* motoring.au, but this article is just as clickbait and cringe worthy. Jalopnik hit it head on.

In other news, I saw on Facebook that the 2017 Dodge Charger is announced and they're also bringing back the Barracuda!!! Here is a photo:
http://www.amcarguide.com/wp-content...concept-lg.jpg

I was about to say "this looks familiar", but now I see the URL: "1999". Thought so.

Excited? Yes - If the performance and dynamics are the same or better. Great news. We need more lightweight sports cars, not less.

Buying? No - The cost of this thing will likely be over $45k (an AP2 went for $42k, inflation adjusted). The options in 2017/2018 (Modded '86, Modded SF-R, MX-5 Clubsport, Fiat 124 Abarth) will likely all beat it on price by at least $10k-$25k and equal if not exceed it dynamically. At $50k a person needs also to take a good hard look at Alpha 4C Spyder and Boxter/Caymans.

if Honda bring it in as capable as the old car at $35k-$30k then we have a discussion.

They were "bringing back" the Barracuda for the last 8 years. Anything new about it is pure bull since I had a conversation with the development team a year ago and the whole project was scrapped with the Fiat take over. Done, dead, officially not to be resurrected as long as Fiat is in the picture.
As for the new Charger design. I can not comment.

OOOOOOOOH engineers are "said" to have attended a club meeting. Well now there is nothing more definitive then that as far as proof of a new car.


More clickbait hogwash no matter how "good" the site usually is. Other sites are already building on this crap so the fun has just begun.

Pretty sure Ghost was being sarcastic with his Facebook reference.


You are correct Push that is a very old rendering of what they "may have " done for the 2005s. They didn't as we know.
At risk of saying more than I should let's let it stand that any possible changes to the Charger will not make it more interesting to anybody on this forum.

If the S2000 were to return, would you guys be excited?

Honestly? No.

The original was expensive for what it was and I doubt:

1. That this is coming
2. That it would be competitive, price wise.
3. That it would be affordable for those that truly are excited about it.

Yeah.... probably not....

Still want this car to come to the US, the s660. Fun DD or weekend car and the FRS can be my other weekend warrior. :D

Used to want an s2000 but now I'm like.. meh.

Not really

As stated above... I'm not sure if I'd be excited other.

First off, it's all rumor and speculation, so why even lose sleep over it to begin with? Second, there are so many factors: weight, cost, performance, appearance, etc. etc.

I always thought it would be cool to see an RX7 successor, and then I saw that pitiful excuse of a concept that was released recently, and lost all hope.

I understand the need for modern safety and emissions standards and things, but I miss the simplistic charm of the old performance cars from Honda. I feel like automakers need to be reminded of the acronym: K.I.S.S.

Maybe this argument also goes for the year 2000 when the S2000 was first launched, but there is no shortage of reasonably good FR sports cars on the market right now. As far as two seaters go, the Miata has now grown up to a modern 2.0L engine in a <2400lb frame with a nice interior, and the engine can be tuned to make similar power to the twins. The twins can be tuned to the former S2000's power levels or more if that is what you desire.

I don't really see where a turbo FR car fits into the picture. The turbo will add to the price and make the engine response worse, and the competition is very stiff below 30k and above 50k. If you budget mid 30s to 40k for a car and Honda happens to be in that range, you could grab a 370Z or muscle car if you want to accelerate quickly and cruise in style, a BMW if you like leather, a WRX if you need to carry stuff, or a BRZ or Miata and leave some money in your pocket and for mods. For not much more money you can have a Porsche Boxster, or a Corvette, or whatever the FT1 is going to be.

The main threat is really the Miata of course, because it's a light, nimble, and now reasonably fast 2 seat convertible. The only way to compete with all these FR sports cars is to make an MR car not an FR car. Besides, on a new platform it'll be cheaper because you can just grab a FWD drivetrain and toss it in the back. A next gen L15 or R18 would do just fine, maybe even go the CRZ route and throw in the hybrid for some more low end grunt.

If they get it right like the AP1/AP2 then yes I will be very excited, however having a turbo engine doesn't speak to me for a successor. My AP1 is probably one of my absolute favorite cars I have owned in the last 11 years since I got my learners license, and I have sampled and owned a lot of vehicles. They whole combination of engine, transmission and steering in a mostly stock form is so much more fun to drive hard than a lot of other vehicles in my opinion. There is just something about the whole package of the car I enjoy compared to a lot of other cars I owned or modified.

But yes they were too expensive at the time.

:suicide:s2000 dead homie

"S2000 expensive for what it was"

WTF?

After the high demand of the first year you could buy them for $29,900. For that price it was faster than the BMW Z3, Mercedes Benz SLK, Audi TT, Porsche Boxster, Ford Mustang GT and Chevy Camaro Z28. Basically faster than anything cheaper than a Corvette. So please go on about how it was overpriced.

It was the only RWD lightweight sports car with a race suspension and hand built engine under $50k.

And for the 10000000th time, you can't play the stupid "adjusted for inflation" price game. How much would a 2000 Civic Si cost today, adjusted for inflation? A hell of a lot more than what a 2015 Civic Si sells for, that's what.

:bonk:

I'm not gonna argue that Honda let this special car wither on the vine, but that's on them, not the car. MSRP might have been $34,500 for this car in 2009, but nobody paid that price. In 2008 I purchased my 2007 S2000 with 4800 original miles for $21,500.00 And there were plenty of other ones for sale for similar money. Their resale didn't spike till after the car was discontinued. Funny how that works.

They were over $50k CAD in Canada back in 2008/2009 sadly. My dad was about to purchase one of the really rare 2009 Canadian models but ended up with a Z4M for a little tiny bit more. Glad I have one now though, paid $12k CAD for my AP1.

Excited yes.

Would I buy no. I need rear seats. Even ones as small as the frs have been life savers.

MSRP on a 2000 Civic Si was $17,545. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $23,824 today.

MSRP on a 2015 Civic Si is $23,090.

drove an AP2 for a few years. hated having only 2 seats, no trunk space and the snap oversteer was scary as hell but man, the F22C was awesome to rev. i dunno what the current turboed honda engines are like but i hope they get it right if they make a new one.

But he does have a point to a degree. A base Subaru STI brand new in 2005 was $32,030. A base STI in 2015 is $35,290. If you were to use an inflation calculator the 2015 STI should be $40,224.

At any rate I thought most of his post was spot on. Consider the engine in the S2K. That thing is still one of the most reliable engines on the road and S2K's, in general, are pretty bulletproof and inexpensive to maintain.

They were a bargain then and they are a bargain now used.

As a car enthusiast I would definitely be excited for a modern S2K as long as Honda does it right. Honda has new leadership and they have openly stated that they want to make exciting cars again and cater more towards a younger audience. About time. I like Honda products, my wife has driven them for well over 10 years now and they are uber reliable and great everyday vehicles.

Bring it on Honda.

It's like you typed the words before I could. Many people forget that Honda never intended to even sell the S2K as long as they did (hence the withering on the vine). Most enthusiasts cars are not made for profit. They are made to generate hype and enthusiasm for the brand and to get good press and butts in the dealership. People that own BRZ's and FR-S should understand that.

Actually I didn't weigh in on whether I thought the S2000 was overpriced or not. Reason being it's almost always purely subjective. It will come down to how much you value the unique qualities of the car.

FWIW I think the S2000 was a fairly good value at the time, especially at the discounted prices dealers were selling them at, but the second-hand market seems overinflated now. That's just my opinion. I could understand if someone else (for example, someone who loved the thought of a 9000 RPM redline and wanted a used convertible, and didn't mind the meager low-end torque or barebones/tight cabin) thought they were great values today. Like I said, value propositions are nearly always subjective so I don't think these debates ever go anywhere.

Re. the STI, Subaru has been using the same engine in that car since 2004, so I'm not surprised its price has dropped relative to inflation. Similarly Nissan hasn't updated the 370z since 2009 and its price has dropped relative to inflation as well. Cars that get updated probably tend to track closer to inflation. 2006 Camry XLE V6 was $31,080 inflation-adjusted. It's $31,370 today. From a marketing perspective, it's probably more a matter of targeting a specific segment of buyers whose average disposable income has been increasing over time (i.e., inflation).

I agree with everything you wrote in terms of resale and aftermarket, but when you consider how much performance and little maintenance a used S2K offers vs say a used Boxster, it is still, for me, a car to consider.

In terms of the inflation argument, we could keep going on but a new WRX is not much more than one from 10 years ago not factoring in inflation and that car is completely different from the ground up. When you factor in all the mandatory safety features now, as well as all the technology it is pretty impressive that you can pay $26K for a base WRX that has a lot of options and features. Same with a modern GTI. The interior of a moderately priced MKVII is almost as good as an Audi and you get tons of tech and way more performance than previous gen for not much more money.

At any rate there are just so many great cars out there right now for enthusiasts. FT86, WRX/STI, Evo (at least for another month or so), GTI/R, new MX-5, FIST, FOST, FOST RS very soon, new Mustang, new Camaro, Genesis Coupe will be redone, upcoming Fiat Spider, etc, etc. I mean so many options for somebody in the $25-38K price range and the performance is ridiculous. The limits on these cars keep getting higher. My Golf R is just ridiculous in terms of features, tech, and performance for the money.

Great time to be an enthusiast.

Assuming one actually did come out (and I have not heard any commentary on it from friends) it would depend on how it drove, price/value, etc. I've had an S2000 and nothing about it would drive me to blindly buy a new version.. except maybe that trans... but yeah I don't trust Honda anywhere near that much.

Yeah I definitely think the current WRX, GTI/R and Mustang are great values compared to previous gens. Many improvements in power, interior, handling, etc. for the same inflation-adjusted price (or cheaper in some cases!)

It's funny - for me, the S2000 isn't a great value compared to say a 987 Boxster because the Boxster can usually be tracked without an aftermarket roll bar. That alone reduces the S2000's value, not just from a pure cost perspective (price of adding a roll bar) but also its lack of suitability as a street car with the roll bar. But again, it's all very subjective because not everyone is interested in going to the track. I also love the sound of Porsche's flat 6, but that's subjective too and I bet some prefer the sound of the F20 at 9000 RPM. That's why one person can say the S2000 is still a great value, another can say it's over-priced, and they can both be right. :)

The thing I never understood is why Mazda just don't make a high revving(100hp/L) version of the current engine in the Mx5 with suspension tweaks(lot less roll) for 30k base. That car would be a S2000 since it would be about 500+ lbs lighter with 40hp less for $30,000

David Coleman (Mazda US engineer chief) actually talked about these points in recent interviews. I'm paraphrasing here, but he said the reason they don't stiffen the Miata's suspension is: 1) US roads are really bumpy, and 2) the Miata is a convertible and would suffer from stiffer suspension. The reason they didn't shoot for 100 hp/L is they weren't willing to sacrifice midrange torque.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...at-sports-car/

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mINzvEAQAnE"]2016 Mazda MX-5 Interview with Dave Coleman - YouTube[/ame]

I really hate this argument because it's ruining all the new cars. Though the engine in my FRS sounds horrible, I am very glad they stretched that single cam as far as they could.

How much midrange do you really need? 2 liters for <2400lbs isn't enough to work with? The whole point of a good manual transmission is so you can enjoy revving the engine up when you want more power.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G800A using Tapatalk

Coleman actually spends a long time talking about the BRZ vs. ND Miata comparison. Despite its inferior hp/weight ratio, the ND's superior torque/weight ratio allows it to be the quicker of the two. Basically comes down to area under the curve.

From his comments, it seems like his team only focused on acceleration and daily usability, but didn't really consider the enjoyment factor of a higher redline.

I will say high RPM, low displacement NA engines really seem to be hit or miss with folks. Some hated the F20/22 and B18C1/5 because of their anemic low-end torque and requirement for downshifting and redlining. Others loved them. But based on the popularity of turbo compacts today, I'd guess more people disliked them sadly.

Low-Mid range power FEELS better for a daily driver. That's why turbo's are loved and V8 engines. So they went with a powerband that most people liked.

If a new s2k comes out, ima be the first inline for one. People.that hates the s2k never even drove on. Drives like a 86 but more raw and more power.