7 days with a Boxster, comparing to my FRS.
 

I had the pleasure of driving around a 2013 Boxster for a week, putting 1100 miles on it. The driving ranged from city to canyon roads to a 7 hr interstate trip. There was a good amount of seat time so I decided to compare the two on here. I realize the Boxster is a $50k car compared to $25k for the FRS so this is NOT an equal comparison. The one I drove is lightly optioned, 19s, Bose audio and a couple of other smaller things.

Engine:
265hp/200tq & ~2900lbs. Guess what? Doesn't feel much faster than the FRS. The torque advantage is noticeable though. The sound is way better than expected, especially in tunnels. Seriously, I love the sound of the flat-6. Youtube videos don't tell the whole story. Boxster sounds exotic and we all know what an FRS sounds like, even with aftermarket exhaust. Having the engine in the back and the intakes behind the doors spoils the driver, it's hard to get that sound out of a front-engine car.

Transmission:
I've never been a fan of automatics but I wouldn't mind owning a PDK. It's that good. It a very intelligent transmission and the 7 speed is great. The RPM's drop 1k when going into 7th on the freeway at 70. 70mph in 7th is 2,000 RPM, in 6th it's ~3k. I averaged low-mid 30's on the highway.

Handling:
I didn't get a chance to track it so can't compare other than it feels much sharper with less body roll. Compared to a stock FRS, the suspension is firmer but the seats are much better so it doesn't feel bad at all.

Interior:
It's a Porsche, can't compare it to the Scion. I felt like my FRS had an okay interior but now I realize how much it sucks, even compared to my girlfriends daily driver. FRS has a cool gauge cluster but the Boxster has an LCD screen for one of the gauges.

Summary:
I always thought the FRS/BRZ is 90% of a Boxster/Cayman but I am completely wrong. Boxster/Cayman is out of the twins' league, it's not fair to compare these two. The sound, the awesome PDK, the interior quality, and just the overall experience is several times better than when in an FRS. They are completely different cars and it's not fair to compare the two.

Someone will always say, yes but I can drop $10k in my FRS and have it be faster/quicker/better than a Boxster/Cayman. My answer: on paper, yes but in person, never. It will never sound better than a mid-engine flat-6 and it will never feel so good while driving. I love my FRS and think it's a great car but it's simply not fair to compare the two.

Got to see a newer Cayman and Boxster as well as an older 911 (late '90s) do some hard launches today, Porsche has really kicked ass in the sound department the last decade.

Thanks for the review. Very interesting. :thumbsup:

Get yourself a boxster!

Sound-wise, Porsche fans will also miss a lot with the new 4-cylinder turbo engine. It is where things are going and in fact FRS/BRZ is already there! Today's engines have to consider also other things like fuel consumption, CO2 levels and to pass other emission standards.

Too bad. That would be the most interesting comparison.

Porsche brand is targeting the high premium level. FRS/BRZ is not targeting this level, but like it or not it was designed in comparison to Boxster/Cayman. Not the current model, but the first generation. In some levels FRS/BRZ was in fact better (e.g. handling).

Hahaha, I'm happy with the Scion. Also, not a ragtop fan. I have to admit, though, I've often lusted after caymans. Beautiful automobiles.

A Porsche is better than a Scion! Mind fucking blown!

Why are people getting twins when they don't want twins? I'm so confused.

Reliability and cost of ownership come to mind.

Great review- thanks.

i dont think anyone would cross shop a new boxster and scion. Now a first gen boxster/cayman would be a more fair comparison.

This simply isn't true. It's marketing. The people behind the GT86 used the Cayman as a benchmark in terms of driver-focus (Seating position, steering wheel position/shape/size, dash, etc.) and steering response, NOT "handling"... not even close. It could never match the mid-engine characteristics of the Boxster/Cayman, and the dinky low-resistance tires are NOT aiding handling. They are totally different types of cars with very different handling.

There were actual comparison tests with the 1st generation Cayman. In fact, in these tests GT86 outperformed Cayman. Check here for two examples:

https://youtu.be/L8mF9vRsv7s?t=618

https://youtu.be/L8mF9vRsv7s?t=663

I am pretty sure that the 2nd generation Cayman is a much more advanced car and the comparison would be much tougher, but overall it was not just a marketing thing.

Yes, but warranty is way much better than toyobaru. I mean Porsche encourage owners to track it and warranty still in without question.

you mean the warranty that subaru will not support because the car went on a track depsite a huge ecu issue with fueling?

From the 2016 Porsche New Car Limited Warranty, from their website

This Warranty Does Not Cover:

Abuse, accident, acts of God, competition, racing, track use, or other events.

Note 1: Components and/or parts that fail during racing or driving events (including Porsche sponsored events) may not be covered by the new car Limited Warranty.

Could you cite please? That sounds ridiculous

meh. that is rather dull comparison. handling is much more than that.

I remember when Chris Harris tested the Cayman/86/Z and he came away more impressed with the 86's handling/balance wise but liked the Cayman more for the power difference and cheaper used price. I have a feeling the biggest difference lies in the F6 vs F4 and the more refined interior.

I've yet to drive a 981 Boxster/Cayman, but have seat time in a 987.1 model and I consider the FRS/BRZ about 80% of that. I know Porsche further improved/refined the car in the new model you had, and may have put it completely out of the twins' league, but earlier models are not that significantly better. Better obviously, but not absurdly so. My opinion, of course.

for double the price it damn well better kick the poop out of an FRS.

I have owned an 06 Cayman S manual, an 09 Cayman S PDK and now a 15 Boxster S manual. In addition I have owned a 13 BRZ (FBM turbo) and 15 BRZ (NA E85).


They are both great cars. I am proud to have owned both. But in many ways the BRZ will never hold a candle to the Porsche. However, when it comes to capability per dollar, fun factor and learning curve.....the BRZ is actually better in my opinion. I love running my Boxster, but more often than not I would take my BRZ first. The rougher more direct feel. The simplicity of driving the BRZ. The fun factor at lower speeds.


These are points that make the BRZ so great. If you are a modder or DIY kind of guy, the BRZ is just a f@cking ball to play with, not to mention an aftermarket and community that is very accessible.


I miss not having a BRZ, although I am still active in my local BRZ community. But the Boxster is a shared treat between my wife and I on the track. Yes, she tracks too. The boxster is so good, it feels like cheating. Plus it has great track driving characteristics that allow you to really work on becoming a better driver. Plus it is still very daily drivable. That I think is the genius in Porsche. And although you can certainly make the Porsche better and more "racecar", you will lose the balanced characteristics quickly, once you do.


The BRZ however is a blank canvas. Its a good chassis, with an engine that is good considering todays emission standards. You can really grow with the BRZ. As you become a better driver, you can mod the car right along with your needs and abilities. Its shortcomings are to be expected at this price point(many can be overcome). The only reason why I got rid of mine was that I wanted a car that I could grow with even more and take to a level that in the end will require extensive changes $$$$. So for me it came down to price. The BRZs are still too new to find decent ones for 10 - 12k, my initial price window for a toy car. This left me with Miatas or S2000s. The S2000 gives me everything my BRZ(s) did, but a little more in every way. Since it is my 4th car (track toy only), I don't give a damn about practical attributes, which is the only thing the S2000 lacks.


But back to the BRZ vs 987/981. Below I will list some points for each car. Of course each points importance will vary from person to person. Which is why we all own different cars in the first place. But at least we are all car guys in some form or fashion. I will place a number from 1 to 10 showing my personal opinion of each point.


981 Boxster:
1. AX and track ready for novices( most of us) and intermediate racers. 8
(needs brake fluid and maybe tires, that's it)
2. Honey of an Engine. 9


3. Driving position. 9


4. Convertible. 2


5. Warranty. 3


6. Community. 5 (PCA is great, but community is very small)


7. Aftermarket. 6 (good but not great, again smaller numbers hurt here)


8. DIY. 3 (unless you have the tools and shop setup $$$$, most things you will need to go to someone else for)


9. Exclusivity/status 8 (honestly, the stupidest reason to buy a car in my opinion. I love cars, and when a person gives me attention for the badge or status of my car....I run away fast. Sorry for the rant.)


10. Refinement/interior. 8 (its nice, I like it...but if it wasn't there I wouldn't cry. Like dessert after a nice dinner. If its there I will enjoy it, but most likely will not miss it by the time I am leaving my table)




BRZ


1. AX/track ready. 5 (AX is fine if you are not seriously competing. Tracking the car is fine for first timers, but brake fade and oil temp will get you fast if you start to improve your driving at all. Luckily, these problems are easy to address and part of the fun in my opinion. I love tires and pads. I buy tires like most women buy shoes. This car needs, NEEDS tires. )


2. Honey of an engine 6. ( really for most people it will be fine. Plus there are so many options to make this engine better that are available. Not too mention if you need more power on track, maybe it is time to move to a different car. Or, the less sexy answer.....learn to drive the car faster and quit blaming HP/TQ)


3. Driving Position. 9 ( I love the driving position. Tied for 1st with my 981 Boxster. I prefer it over my 06 Cayman, 09 Cayman. Slightly over my S2000 and better than my C5 Z06. Just getting into a BRZ feels so right.)


4. Convertible 0 (who cares)


5. Warranty 5


6. Community 9 (one of the funnest things about owning this car, conversations everywhere about it. Finding an answer to a question on an FT86 is pretty easy)


7. Aftermarket 10 (Its already very good and growing. Only 3+ years and the size of it is staggering)


8. DIY 9 (for a modern car this one is very accessible, one of the easiest cars to work on in my opinion...also quite fun. Of course that was probably because it was so new that there was no rust or corrosion)


9. Exclusivity/Status. 5 (Who F'ing cares)


10. Refinement/interior 5 (everything I need, nothing I don't. Great seats, good ride for the handling, not needed but has Ipod hookup, and I like the Spartan look of the interior. Basic and Clean.)


Anyways, those are my thoughts. Two great cars. I love both. Everyone will feel different about them, and no one is right or wrong about them. A car comparison is never a right or wrong anyway. I love my Boxster, and I believe it is the better car in virtually every way that matters to me. But if someone came to me and said you can only own 1 car. A boxster or BRZ. I would pick the BRZ. I could play with a BRZ and be happy for a long time.

after reading this I have concluded that @brzaapi has had to many fun cars and I hate him. :D

Hello. My name is BRZAAPI and yes I am a car-aholic.

A 5 for AX/track readiness is a very low value for BRZ. Especially for a car that it was highly tested and reviewed by many top-qualified racers in Japan. Too bad that people don't know what they buy.

LOL... exactly. Jealous. Seriously brzaapi thanks for the fantastic compare.

Of course, I always love talking cars.

Next thing he'll be telling us is that his girlfriend is hot and not a complete pain in the ass :lol:

You know I struggled with that myself. The 5 was more for tracking than AX. But these are only my numbers, they are neither right nor wrong...just my two cents. 3 years ago, I would have said 7 or 8....but after all my AX, HPDE and school/instruction I say 5 for track. I can exploit the weaknesses of the BRZ pretty quickly on a track. Stock brakes fade 2 - 4 laps in and oil is pegging 290 - 300 halfway through a session. But both problems easily fixed, which is why I love the car. But what comes from the factory isn't up to the task.


But, what number would you give? That's the whole point of us discussing this. Sharing opinions or ideas.

And that he can be a pain in her ass whenever he wants to if you get my drift.

She is pretty hot. She also drives well. She also loves it when I buy parts for our cars. But, she can still be a pain in the ass. And she isn't much of a housekeeper or cook.


But I aint complaining.


Thank god she isn't on this forum, or id be in some shit.

That depends on how suicidal I am feeling.

When in doubt, just stretch it out.

good. because I was about to call you out for making shit up. those broads don't exist. :lol:

You see, I gotta hear this shit at the track every time her and I go out to a HPDE or a PCA event. Guys are always saying how lucky I am. Wish my wife/girlfriend was like that. And you know, I am lucky...but every woman is a pain in the ass. She's not easy and she would admit that. She just happens to not bust my balls about car stuff.


But she shouldn't complain, she enjoys a pretty good life herself. I mean she tracks a 15 Boxster whenever she wants, I am then racing an S2000. Not complaining, life is good, but how can she complain. Hell, any married man here knows it aint all roses and cupcakes....even on a good day.

Did this go off topic or what?

I will leave you with this: Chicks who can hang

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOlELxK83pw"]Inside Amy Schumer - Chicks Who Can Hang - YouTube[/ame]

You're welcome :)

Shit....You mean I am "that guy". I'm the a$$hole who hijacked a thread.


Damn, I apologize back to the topic at hand.

I don't consider BRZ to be a competition car or a track car, but I believe that overall it is very well thought and much more tested for track days in comparison to other cars. So, it just seemed to me that a 5 was very low.

Regarding the problems you mentioned, someone needs to use racing brake pads and better tires. But, I don't consider these to be factory issues. It looks that the factory considered these as necessary accessories for entering a track.

Regarding the high oil temperatures, I don't consider again to be a serious issue. There were other issues with the engine and factory fixed them. For example, they changed the intake and exhaust valves and a few other things. You can check details here. But, I haven't heard about any broken engines because of the high oil temperatures. If you aware something else please let us know.

The high oil temps lead to power loss, as the ECU retards timing to prevent pre-detonation in the combustion chambers.

A 200 hp 2700 lb car should have absolutely zero issues at the track with thermal management (save brake pads). The stresses presented just aren't that high. It's a shame that the BRZ doesn't come stock with an oil cooler. I realize the car was built to a budget (and was still more expensive than originally promised) but couldn't they at least offer an oil cooler as an option?

The vast majority of stock sports cars can't handle the stresses of a track day in 100 degree weather. The vast majority of twins will never touch a track. On a cool day at the track, the stock cooling system is sufficient. I think you just don't get it, which is why you don't own a twin.