Where do I stand legally?
 

Hi all,

I have a situation which has come to light recently regarding the purchase of my Toyota 86 GTS.

I was originally going to trade-in my 2005 Integra Type-S to clear the loan from that and hopefully get some equity from it which could be put into my 86 finance.

However, my dealer here in Brisbane said the Integra was worth $9,000. Yes, you heard right, $9000 for a good condition 78.5k kilometre 2005 Type-S. I thought this sounded rather low, so I jumped on carsales.com when I got home to have a look at the going prices. My Integra should be fetching between $16.5k - 25k according to carsales. It is insured through AAMI with a current agreed replacement price of just over $24,000.

So I rang my dealer up today to let them know I won't be trading-in my Integra and will instead sell it privately to get around TWICE what they offered me.

I was told that the car had been signed over to them and the trade-in was part of the deal. In short, I cannot sell it privately now. I do not understand this. The trade-in has NO effect on the finances as the amount owing and what they were going to offer, cancel each other out. It's not like I am relying on this trade-in to finance the 86. Hell, I could pay for the 86 in cold-hard cash if I had to.

I feel like I am being right-royally arse-raped. I admit it's probably my own fault for signing everything first. But is this right? Can they do this? I honestly have no idea.

I would like to point out though, that this is the only sour point of my whole experience with my dealer. They have otherwise been nothing but helpful and friendly to me and I would still recommend them to anyone looking to buy an 86 (well maybe so long as you aren't trading in a car, hehe). I just do not want this to ruin this enjoyable experience.

do you have any special condition on your contract that allow you to get out?

usually they wouldn't care if you just pay them the cash instead of the trade in but they are not exactly wrong to say that the Honda is part of the deal for this contract and the consideration is your Honda + balance.

i believe they have really taken advantage of you but this is the terms on the contract and you agreed and signed it.

there is no cooling off period for new car sales so this isn't looking good.

ask them what happen if you damaged the car before delivery? will they take the $9k or want the car still?

Wow they screwed you over big time!

Did you not agree on the trade price prior to signing the contract? I'm guessing no? If a price wasn't agreed upon then I don't think you can form a binding contract - it just gives the dealer too much power to charge what ever he wants. Go over your contract and make sure it doesn't mention the price.

This might be of some help:
http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/motor-industry.htm

They can if you signed the order with the trade attached. It sounds like they undernetted you hard. Undernetting is offering a value lower than what they have to put more money in the deal. If it were the real wholesale value they offered you they wouldn't be out of pocket. I suggest you speak to the manager and try to come to some kind of agreement. But at the end of the day always think before signing.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=258

this is a copy of his contract from another thread.....

sticky, OP is from Brisbane.

This is what happens when the dealer plays hardball with trade-ins. Unfortunately, before you sign the contract you should have a figure in your mind about what your car's worth privately then work down from there which would be the dealer trade-in - which is always quite a fair bit less than private sales of course (but not so much as in your case now).

Unless you have an additional clause that allows you to sell the car privately before delivery - it's a bit hard to get out.

My previous Honda dealer was good enough to put a clause that should I manage to sell my car privately before delivery then the trade-in will be ignored and I'll just pay the balance owing before trade-in (of course offset with more money that could be netted from the private sale).

Woops my bad - changed it to the QLD fair trading site.

So I guess he already agreed on the price. Apart from other conditions you have on the contract (ie. not happy with test drive etc) they've got you by the balls. You really should of checked carsales before walking in there.

Its pretty simple here you didn't check what your car is worth and you signed a contract to form your trade as part settlement for the new vehicle. The price was agreed upon.... Unfortunately for you, the dealer have under traded you which means there is profit for them in the trade of your vehicle and removing it loses them money which they won't do. You have to remember people Profit is not a dirty word that is what a car dealer does to provide you with nice facilities and test drivable cars, servicing, parts etc
I would think there is not a lot you can do other than chalk it up to experience or just not buy the new car if you have a buyer to make you more money.

Remember that what Carsales.com.au have advertised is never what people get people always discount and the Wholesale value of a 2005 Honda Integra Type S is about $10-11k

yeah i really hope there is some clause on the special condition section so he can pull out. (the pic of the contract was cut short)

wow that's pretty low.

what is the wholesale value of a 2008 VW Golf GTI DSG? (just wondering, sorry for OT).

Thanks for the info guys :thumbsup:

Looks like I really didn't prepare myself as much as I should have, guess I was caught up in the excitement. Oh well, let's put it down to a learning experience then.

I just had one thought. What if the car was to be 'stolen' or something else were to happen to it that would cause AAMI to pay the agreed value out to me. Would the money go to me or straight to Toyota?

Well if the car was still in your possession then the money should come to you - it's only when you hand over your keys that they get ownership.

And please don't commit insurance fraud - it's not worth it - especially since you've just discussed this on a public forum.

BTW I'm guessing you put down a deposit - have you thought about foregoing that and signing up with another dealer and selling your car at higher price. Isn't that a more profitable option? I'm sure the dealer would be happy to keep $1,000 for doing nothing.

Do you have a cooling off period in which you can rescind the contract?

Also this might help

Unfair contract terms

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.../itemId/930016

There's only cooling off on finance, not purchases.

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Ahh ok. I Didnt know that. thx for that info.

Sounds like you didn't do your home work and that the dealers a crook. Hopefully you put down 'subject to test drive' in your clause so at least you can exit out of this.

Unfortunately, I took the car for a test drive on Tuesday afternoon before doing this paperwork, doh!

Just looked at my contract, on the back where the Terms And Conditions are, I have not signed it. Does this make any difference?

Yeah, makes all the difference. Usually they have T&C so the buyer has a way to 'exit' the contract if they are not happy with the deal. Standard ones are subject to pricing, subject to test drive, subject to finance. You could put other 'subject to' clauses if you wanted to.. "Subject to girlfriends approval" lol

Not subject to finance unless u told them upfront that u are getting finance.

If u already told them u don't need finance then this clause no longer applies.

got yourself in a bit of a pickle, should not have signed it. did you put subject to finance to a specfic lender.

this is going to be an expensive lesson for you. who are you financing the car with ? your only way to get out is if you can't get finance. or talk to the manger again and plea.

I think if you sold your trade privately the worst thing that could happen would be they won't sell you the new car.....What deposit did you leave? I would be inclined to think it wouldn't be refunded either or it would be very slow in being returned to you.

On another point are you prepared to wait for another vehicle if they didn't let you keep your car....seeing as late this year/early next year for a Manual GTS in QLD is the norm would you be prepared to wait

Kenno, do u have anything in the special condition section?

If u sell your car privately, u have breach the contract and subject to the default clause and they can recover from u up to 10% of their lost.

U know what, u seems to have the same standard contract as me so I'll have a look at the T&C after dinner.

My deposit was $2,000. Yeah, I'm thinking the deposit and the car would both be lost. And to be honest, I'm not prepared to lose the deposit or wait until next year for a replacement car. Especially as I will be taking delivery in under 3wks.

The only thing in the special condition section is: "Non-genuine accessories fitted to, or defective parts attributed to their fitment on this vehicle, will not be covered by the Toyota Factory".

So if I do go ahead and sell it privately, hence putting me in breach, is the 10% calculated on the $9,000 quoted for my trade-in? If so, that is only $900 and is quite an acceptable payout compared to what the private sale would hopefully get me.

Look at the default clause. I'll do so after dinner

its actually 10% of the full purchase price 40k $4000 if they wanna play hard ball. I have never seen any dealer do it to date. But they can.

Yeah considering the backlog of these cars all they would do is sell it to the next person guaranteed sale......you go to the back of the que

Just realised this. So I would be losing my deposit, my 86, and have to pay $4,000 for lost income. In the end this is all not worth it.

So, I will be putting my tail between my legs and taking this one like a man. Yeah, I was stupid and unprepared.
Instead, I'm just going to be happy with the fact that I can:
1. Be in the position to be able to afford an 86GTS in the first place
2. Have one arriving in less than 3wks, yay!
3. Take heed for the next time I trade-in a car

I don't have a contract in front of me but I think its 5% on a standard MTA contract of sale.

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In QLD, it's 10%....

I think u are losing about 3-4k by trading at $9k.

I reckon your ONLY option and I have had a quick look at QLD cooling off period for QLD new cars you get NONE .


1. reason with the manger and see if you can work out something. your right if you choose to sell the car for more should not have a effect. they sell car you get more money win win.

2 hope that your finance rejects your loan, but if you can't get that how can you get another one. Subject to finance is a loose term. you may not get finance with your bank but toyota apply for you at toyota finance and sign you up on a higher rate maybe and you won't be able to do anything about it. you have to make 3 attempts and if you can't get it contract is void

other than that not sure what else, are you young and your parents are helping you out in any way. maybe bring your parents into to give them a serving make your g/f cause a scene dealers won't like that with other customers around

Hey Kenno, can you tell us which dealer this was? I am just finding Brisbane dealers quite shocking so far, I am actually considering getting a car from another state.

BTW, mate I'd take the Integra off your hands for 10k :P

I have to say Brisbane dealers are shocking and Sydney ones are much better.

Kenno, refer to clause 3(a) about trade in. They put the km as 78,537, I'd assume u will still be driving the car and by increasing the odometer you must give written notice to them and they can reduce your trade in value even more!!!

Just reading the clauses, the only way for the trade in value is down and not up!!!

I think u are pretty much locked in except for the finance clause. And if u cancel now u have to join the back of the queue.

Your last resort action is go to the dealer tomorrow when they have many customers and make a big fuss of it.

Also look on carsales and maybe give a few dealers that have cars in stock a call. It would cost around $600 to get a car delivered from another state, I would consider that option if I was loosing that much on my trade in.

Your deposit is non-refundable? That's so harsh. I know it's unlikely but what if you decided the car wasn't for you after test driving it? You'd be out of your deposit and have sold your existing car for less than it's worth?

Mate see the manager before rolling over on ur back and giving up...... And if u get no where with them set up a thread or put on here a big name and shame... Yes u fucked up signing without checking but we are talking about thousands of dollars u are getting shafted.. Ur willing to replace trade in with cash, unless they gave u a great discounted price on the 86 then ur getting fucked hard in the ass with no lube.... Thats not acceptable......

He drove the car before signing....

I'm with FT-86GOD...

Dude, this is quite a crap situation to be in.

I had a quick look at your invoice, seems like your $2000 deposit was paid via credit card which means you are protected.

Now I understand that your car is 3 weeks away and you are excited about it, however if I was in your place this is what I would do, Know that you will make atleast 5 - 7k profit on your DC5r,


I will call up your credit card provider " your bank" as all transactions are protected. Lodge for a charge back on the grounds that you are not satisfied with service and wish to cancel the order with toyota. It might be little difficult but honestly the bank usually works hard for you. You have to be prepared to walk away from the car. Off-course I would be discussing this with one of the Senior Managers at the dealership and would not take NO for an answer.

If you want to discuss further , feel free to PM.

Usually 3 days cooling off period is standard nationally, not sure when you signed up the agreement

Yes this is perfect. you have not signed the contract which makes it illegal for them to draw funds out of your credit card, unless you have signed a receipt for the payment


need more details,

I second this

Os86, not sure doing the credit card trick will trigger the default clause and might subject the OP to be liable of 10% of the purchase price.

And there is no cooling off for new car purchase in QLD.