Getting an FR-S
 

Hello all, this is my first post here and I have to thank everyone for making such a great community for this car.

Now that that is out of the way. I am taking receipt of my 2016 Oceanic FR-S around the end of September, beginning of October. I know I want to get a little more pep from the motor, but I am not exactly sure how I want to go about it. It's coming with the TRD springs, sway bars, brake pads, quick shifter, and muffler.

This is my short term plan. Keep it minimal for about the first three years. I'm thinking GrimmSpeed intake, ECUtek reflash, Subaru radiator/oil heat exchanger, and some general chassis stiffening stuff. Maybe changing the thermostat, but I live in Washington and it's rarely super hot out.

Quesiton about this^. Should I wait until after the break in period is over to reflash, or does it not really matter?

In the long term, I like the idea of going for a turbo, making about 200-230 WHP and trying to tune it so that I get great fuel economy. Don't get me wrong, I love driving a high output vehicle (and this car is probably super fun when it makes 250-300 whp,) but it will be a daily and I want something reliable, with great economy, and just a bit of extra pep with a smooth torque curve.

Frankly I would love to see this car hit a MPG of 40-50. It'd be nice to show the world that a car can be fun, and economical. Not sure what exactly would be required to do this, or if something like that is even possible.

I looked around to see if anyone was trying to do an economy build but didn't really find anything. Mainly just people talking about what kind of mileage they are getting after they did their build.

Thanks for reading!

Well, HELLO Akya2120 and WELCOME to our community ....... :clap:

Good plan on keeping it almost stock for a while after you first get it.

About the tune, I'd suggest you wait till the engine is good and broke in before messing with the tune.

About the only way you're going to get 40-50 MPG with this car is to drive up to Paradise (Mt Rainier - for you out of staters) and coast down to Ashford (measuring mpg in the way down). OR, get in I-5 and drive at 35 mph to Portland ...... ;)

Oh, yes, a set of winter tires would be a good thing if you plan on driving year around ....... for the 1" of snow we get twice a year.

Stay tuned for all kinds of good information about your up coming purchase ...... :)


humfrz

Not a chance.

Ok. Maybe if you fit 60psi space-savers on all four corners and then draft the slowest semi trucks you can find...

And congrats in advance. Welcome. :)

Y'all are probably right about the economy. I would have to go to a smaller engine then turbo it, which makes zero sense. Pipe dreams I suppose haha.

Would it be a bad decision to install intake and headers before I am done with the break in? (aside from the possibility of voiding my warranty in the case of manufacturing defect.)

Debating what set of headers to get. Tomei UEL looks nice, but there are plenty of options. Any recommendations? Is there any difference between UEL and EL aside from sound and weight?

Also open to recommendations for intakes aside from the GS.

Humfrz, should I really consider getting winter tires? I had thought about it but I figured I would just not drive it for the couple days of snow we might get in a year. Knowing my luck, it's going to snow for a week this coming winter. I'm trading in my 6 speed 4x4 Tacoma. Pricing it out, if I was to rent a truck when I need one I would save money long term haha. Not to mention driving the FR-S is going to be a HELL of a lot more fun. Really I was planning to get a set of wheels/tires for going to The Ridge since that track is ~30 minutes from me. It's a corporate lease which I intend to buy when the lease is up, but something tells me corporate won't be happy with me if I am consuming tires on a biannual basis or less hah.

Kind of regretting ordering blue at this point (edit: because I saw one on a dealer lot.) I kinda prefer the way black looks, I ordered it off of the stock photos which basically lie. I'm sure it will grow on me, but I am thinking about wrapping it gloss black if the it doesn't (plus the vinyl will protect the original paint.) Anyone up here do their own vinyl wraps/down for colab?

Thanks for all the warm welcomes folks :)

Get the car first and drive it, then plan out mods.

If you have to ask before owning the car, you should not be planning mods first.

-alex

This is not my first rodeo. I just figured that I would ask being as I am fairly new to the parts market for the twins. I have driven my father's automatic FR-S thousand's of miles, and at autoX events, and gotten it sliding here and there. I'm just trying to get opinions on what good part choices are... Like I said, the stuff I have chosen is GS intake, Tomei UEL header, and ECUtek tune, wheels/tires for events, and some chassis stiffening (strut bars, and maybe the door jam plates.) I know there are people on here who have been in the game with this car for 3 years and know all the options and have their opinions on them too. Does that make you feel more comfortable sharing your opinions?

At least I'm not in here like, I don't own the car but I'm buying a turbo kit... With no consideration for keeping the engine cool or tuning.

Only thing I've bought for it so far is the GrimmSpeed front plate mount cause I am not having them drill holes in my bumper for no reason (I was also told the car would be ready for me at the beginning of this month and that changed to next month.)

My opinion is still the same... wait till you get the car before you plan out mods.

Doubling down, sticking to your guns, I like it. I will plan now, and be ready to buy them when I feel like it. I'm sure I will love it the way it comes, I'm just thinking the torque dip is worth spending some money on to smooth out a little. Regardless, if I know how the car feels, what's the difference whether I would be thinking about them on mine versus my father's? I don't think the paint color or model year is going to change my feelings on performance parts haha.

What is your goal with the intake? Noise, or actual performance enhancement?

If for performance, I'd save some money and just get a drop in filter and perhaps the silicone inlet tube, if you feel inclined.

Mostly performance, I don't really care about the sound as long as it isn't annoying. In fact I'd prefer to keep the exhaust pretty close to OEM loudness (mainly due to a law in up here in WA.) Just trying smooth out the torque curve in the 3-4.5k range and maybe get a couple extra wheel hp. From what I have seen intake, header, and an e85 tune seems like a real easy way to fix it but e85 isn't readily available around me.

About "winter" tires. I reckon that depends on the roads between where you are and where you want to go. With the OEM tires, if you have to go up any hills and the roads are ice or snow covered, it has been my experience, that you might as well plan on leaving your car in the garage.

However, if you have another vehicle, or can catch a ride with a friend, or take public transportation or work from home, during a snow event ...... I'd suggest you pass on winter tires.

Personally, I put "all season" tires on for the winter months and put the OEM tires on for the summer months. I figure that the two sets of tires together will last as long as I have the car ...... ;)


humfrz

I would wait a few months before starting with the mods, at least that way you will have a better indication of performance change. It takes at least 10k miles to calibrate the butt dyno.

The on ramp is the only thing up hill that is between me and my job. I can miss a day or two if I have to but I can probably also figure out how to get there if I have to. I suppose I will cross that bridge when I get there, I'm not going to worry about it for now. Thanks for passing on the experience :)

*It's coming with the TRD springs, sway bars, brake pads, quick shifter, and muffler.*

Seriously if that's what is coming straight from the factory drive the car for the break in period +500 miles at least 1500-2000 miles see what you like and don't like and mod accordingly. You said yourself you're new to this particular aftermarket so at least look up reviews for each of the parts you are even thinking about. Also I can personally vouch for OFT I love not having to go out and pay for new tunes each time I add a mod or for a latest feature.

Check this out:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39719


It's a long read but it's just what you need.

I'll probably wait until after the thousand mile point, get a magnetic drain plug for the engine, and change the engine, trans, and diff fluid. Then I will buy some parts, but that's not going to be for about 2-3 months with the amount I drive (unless I am really itching to get it broken in, then maybe I will just go for some adventures.) My goal is to by then know what fluids and parts I want to pull the trigger on (and what people recommend.) I have been looking at reviews, build logs, et cetera, which is how I came to the parts I had chosen already. All that may change over the course of the next 4 months though haha. My brother has always been an advocate of Royal Purple but I see a lot of people recommending motul here.

As for the the tuning software, OFT sounds nice. I have seen that ECUtek flashes are kind of pricey so I could see how that would add up quick if I am wanting to optimize every time I get a part. I will look into both of them further. Also a friend of mine co-owns Tri-Point Engineering, I am guessing he could help me out in this deparment (unfortunately they are like 1,200 miles from me currently, but I'll be down there soon enough.)

Thanks for the experience!




I looked at this. I don't like that it requires extra batteries, that it is essentially high/low boost only, that it isn't inter-cooled, and that it can only be run in stints. I think utilizing exhaust gases makes way more sense. A proper turbo kit would be brilliant on this car but I am not sure if I want to deal with the hassles of FI. I thought about the Cosworth SC kit, the Works kit (mainly for the CARB sticker but the kit has it's drawbacks,) and the AVO stage 1. Really though I want to maintain the reliability of the car and I am concerned that getting into FI will make that a little harder without doing some engine work. At this point it's more than I am willing to consider doing to the car, but maybe in 3-4 years that will change.



More pipe dreams: I think making a variable vane kit would be awesome for this car (probably most cars,) but that would be a lot of work. I was recently offered a job at TPE, which I am seriously debating taking, it would be a great opportunity for me to implement many of my ideas. Unfortunately(?) the first one I would design would likely be for a 13b. But, I would probably try to make the electronics pretty generic. That way the system could be implemented on different platforms by making different manifolds, intake plumbing, and tapping into different sensors.

Thanks y'all! :respekt:

Yep, I think you need to do some more research ....... :lol::lol:


humfrz

It's always good to talk these things through. We're here to help. :D

It's not impossible to get 40mpg. Engineering Explained did close on his test course.

Well, at least ...... that's what the car said it got ...... ;)


humfrz

Mine has been surprisingly accurate at 22.1 MPG. :(

Yes, I found what I'm interested in doing. Now I'm curious what other people think, because I know there is someone here who has the same parts, or knows of better ones (and will tell me why.)

And this is why I'm here :) thanks!

Good to know, but getting those numbers in daily conditions would probably prove difficult. Out of curiousity, how much did he do to the car to get those results?

He says his course is around 53 miles, mostly highway with some city and hills mixed in. The car was stock for his test.

Here is his auto frs review (40.6 mpg by the way). [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IKb2rXQoR8"]2015 Scion FR-S - Review & Test Drive - YouTube[/ame]

The manual brz got 38.1 mpg
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E69uyew8KtE"]2015 Subaru BRZ Series.Blue - Review & Test Drive - YouTube[/ame]

Interesting. I've long ago given up on mine.

Wait till you get it and know you want to keep it. IMO buying a twin with the intention of making it fast, should not be your first reason to buy it.

As techy's here have stated wait till the break in period. That way your engine will deform/mold into your driving attitude and habits. Many say 1k, I was raised with old cars and the belief that 10k is more like it. I wait until 2.5k personally.

e85 and a good tune, exhaust, pulley, intake, header...etc w/o turbo might get you near there.

Sure, it's possible. Do what a few old Mustang fans are doing down here and add in electric batteries or find a diesel set up... lol 40mpg on straightaways with 60mph, no extra weight is possible! I've hit that on 300mile trips. I don't even think you'd hit 25mpg in town with a turbo. Some argue that you get +3 or so mpg but I don't agree. Maybe in an auto. Past 45mpg I highly doubt you can, but there is a funny picture on the forums where someone reset their mpg and drove downhill and took a pic of the mpg reading at 120mpg+, so if you just drive down hill, you can achieve this!

The twins are not an econo-box. I wish they'd hit 30mpg in town and 40 in HWY at hwy speeds, but they don't. Again, dont buy the twin as a mpg/hp tune machine for DD. If you want hp and mpg, imo there's the mustangs (eco boost?) and Fiesta (?). I'm not a fan, but they do have a a tad more mpg/hp. Ours are mini go-karts with a big heart. Driving is majestic and I've yet to become bored of it.

Try the tech forums here and you might learn a bit more whether you want a car like the FRS or really want the FRS. Don't forget, the FRS is like the trim level of the twins. In WA it gets so cold your nuts can stick to stuff, so you might like the BRZ with seat warmers more, and later do cosmetic mods to flip some of it to look like the FRS.

P.s. remember too, 12.5:1 compression for this engine is tad high for FI. That's whats stopping me from S/C or Turbo. Many have successfully done it, though.

That's not 100% exact imo if only based on one car reading, and the car's reading at that. When I factored my driving from Monterey to LA (634 mile round-trip x 5 trips I took in one month), I had my FRS 6mt stating 42.3 MPG as avg (driving to LA, and returning was like 36) (no traffic driving at midnight-4am ish), but when I checked on multiple mpg sites like fuelly, it was more like 38. Also based on the gas I pumped it was in the high 30's. IMO the mpg on our cars is off by +3 or -3 of what it states.

Also, I drove at 60mph-65mph, shifted at 2.5-3k for that trip, 90%+ hwy driving and no a/c whole time. 53 miles imo is not enough as a testing area. Try 100 minimum as an 'estimate' and a whole week of driving those same roads in order to create a good solid estimation.

Don't forget altitude, pressure and temperature help or hinder mpg. Auto will get better mpg because of the transmission. Don't forget.



I'm personally at 21-26 with 80% city, and 20% hwy. Yesterday being in SJ I got 38mpg driving to SJ, and coming back 32-34.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...92/687/142.jpg

DANG!, @Packofcrows ....... you out done yourself there ...... :thumbsup:


humfrz

Hell, you already live in Olympia. Come out & have a burger with the crew.

**86 Feast Event**September 20, 2015**

Look at ecomodders forum, they do eco builds, not sure if there will be anyone with an FRS.

The manual gets 30 highway and the auto gets 34 highway. I'd be willing to bet that doing eco mods, you could manage 40 highway but I don't think that would work well with your HP goals also

Xgf in ER. I was bored. :cheers:

By the way @Akya2120 dont be discouraged to buy a twin. Just make sure you can handle it. Oh and dont forget it comes with a chastity belt and a hot dog magnet.

I am not buying it (edit: although I plan to when the lease is up.) It's a corporate lease, and my truck lease is up. I did the math on leasing the truck vs leasing the FR-S and renting a truck when I need one. The FR-S is cheaper per month, will cost less to operate, and I use my truck for it's truck abilities roughly ten times a year (about half that is for friends.) Now it will be either time to bite the bullet and rent a truck, or find a friend with a truck to help out haha.


Thanks for the recommendation, I'll keep that in mind. Honestly I might just not care since speed is not my goal. Learning to drive well is my goal. For a time I owned an 85 SR5 Corolla, I loved it but the previous owner did not take care of it and it was more than I could handle being in college so it's sitting on my parents side yard collecting dust. I tried selling it but everyone wants 6k for 1k... not even worth my time to sell it HAH... Hopefully when I get more time I'll turn it into a track beater.


There are no E85 stations near me so that's kind of off the table. Plus doesn't using E85 result in lower MPG?

Lol at the 120mpg I would always see that on downhills off throttle when it would cap at 121mpg. As for the MPG thing, it would be cool but tinkering with the car to get good mpg



I have to stay within the Toyota family (corporate lease.) That said, I love the idea of the car. I love the way the car feels to drive. I wish it had zero nannies like the AE86 (such majesty,) but at the same time I am sure there will be days where I don't feel like being constantly alert and happy to let the nannies take care of me a little.


Yea, there was a tidbit I wrote before about having to do engine work for FI. I was talking about this kind of indirectly. 12.5:1 is real high for pump gas and FI, but it can be done. I would imagine e85 or e100 would make it much easier.


I never use AC, and I'm from CA. Friends and family are always like why? Why, because it's bad for our enviroment to be running heat pumps. Thermo dictates that we are making more heat by moving heat around than by just accepting that we live in a damned desert. No reason to make the world hotter for future generations.

I have never owned an automatic vehicle, and I never will baring physical disability or necessity. My father's FR-S is auto, I feel lazy driving when coming from my truck.




I would love to and I really appreciate the offer, but I am in the process of building a Stirling engine and have pretty much no time right now (3D printer is printing it's little heart out as I type, has been for ten hours, will be for probably another ten.) Also, my 86 won't be here until ~Sept 29th... The day after I go back to class and lose more of my life :( haha. I was told that it would be ~August 29th and I was hoping to drive to CA before Summer was over so I could get the car broken in, but no... Now I will have to figure out how to make time on my weekends to go places. Maybe next time I will come on up if I am not swamped with inorganic chem, statistical mechanics, or trying to start a business... wow does that sound like I am spreading myself thin? Nahhh :bellyroll: haha.

I highlighted the parts of your original post that tells me you don't have enough knowledge of this car to make mods at this point.

Let me break it down for you:

- Why a oil cooler? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you tracking it to the point where an oil cooler is needed?
- Your climate is EVERY reason NOT to change anything on your cooling system. Want to destroy your engine faster? Let the oil get to operating temp SLOWER with a lower thermostat or oil cooler.
- Driving your dad's car... and the chassis is not stiff enough? What planet do you live on?
- Great fuel economy + turbo kit do not mix together. Aftermarket turbo kits are not built with a properly set up engine in mind, and if you want true fuel economy you'd also (at some point) consider going with lower compression pistons and a different cam profile to take advantage of the boost and optimizing VE in different areas. Oh, and throw in about $10-20k in "R&D" that you will do on your own vs what a normal OEM would do.

Again: if you don't know how to go about achieving your goals, you need to learn about the pros and cons of each setup before you start to mod.

-alex

I appreciate the test of my knowledge, but this was never a question about whether I have the knowledge to do mods. I have done a whole lot of work on all sorts of different vehicles from street and dirt bikes, to trucks, to RVs, and yes... even cars.

-I do plan to track the car (I live about thirty minutes from a two and a half mile road coarse called The Ridge, maybe you would have noticed that if you weren't a selective reader.) I will probably end up getting braided lines and the master cylinder support, too (depends on how bad brake fade gets, I never pushed my limits in my fathers car, as it's not mine to do that with.) I am not talking about a dedicated air to oil cooler, I am talking about retro fitting the Subaru oil to coolant heat exchanger (you even highlighted it but apparently you missed that.) This actually brings operating temps up faster in the winter time and keeps the engine cooler in hard driving conditions. So you're wrong there.

-The thermostat is something I would do if I was going to boost the car. Not something I would do for no reason. Notice I said maybe (again you highlighted it?) It means that if I am having temp issues it's an option. Wrong again.

-The chassis is nice, I like it. That said a front strut bar is not expensive, and I had seen a couple videos demonstrating the doors deflecting during hard cornering. The door jam stabilizers might help alleviate this. I live on earth, but I am thinking about going home soon.

-I had already talked about the requirement engine work to do FI earlier in the thread, I also had mentioned the fact that I don't plan to do that for at least 2-3 years (maybe never.) I get it, 12.5:1 is real high for FI. To leave it at stock comp and do FI I'd recommend running at least 100 octane, or e85. Ethanol has better pre-detonation prevention than gasoline... None of this is real hard science, pretty sure I get what's going on. To properly run boost on pump I'd say ~9:1 would be right (I haven't really looked into FI with these motors more than looking at what kits are out there. Mainly because it's not really something I plan on doing, especially not any time soon.)

I appreciate your concern, but frankly I know better than you what I do and do not possess. I know that I am going to spend at least a thousand miles figuring out what I think is an important progression of parts for the car (even though I thought about installing an intake and flashing a tune before the 1k mark, oh no.) I came in here to ask questions about some parts, share my joy about getting one of these wonderful cars, and be a part of the community. I have gotten some great recommendations here from some kind folks, which I am thankful for. That's why I ask questions.

TLDR: Don't really care for your negativity, and you're making incorrect assumptions. Thanks though.

Let me rephrase since you're being defensive and bringing up new points:

- oil cooler: what are you trying to accomplish? Are you going off random data posted online or do you have a specific need you are trying to address? I did not miss anything you posted about going to a local track, by the way.
- why a master cylinder support? I've run for 2 years now without brake fade (using a BBK) and have never had the need for a master cylinder support to address brake fade. It is not a fade issue, it's a pedal feel issue.
- thermostat: what is the point if you are boosting? Just because a thermostat opens at a lower temp doesn't mean it cools any better than a OEM Subaru or Toyota version. In fact, a lower thermostat is pretty much a useless mod piece.
- strut bars are for looks on this car. I have one on my car and I could not tell the difference before/after.
- you missed my point on the engine work... and to "leave it at stock comp and do FI I'd recommend running at least 100 octane" is a bunch of false info. The key thing with running boost on high compression stock internals is the tune (and a lot of actual tuning, not some program flashed remotely). My point was regarding your desire for great gas mileage + forced induction. If you want those two, you need to basically rebuild the motor so that it is "designed for turbo" from the start.

TL;DR: if you don't want an opinion, don't ask for one.