Has anyone else had issues with brakes?
 

Hey guys,

My girlfriend was driving my BRZ yesterday when the brakes stopped working. The car slowed and then suddenly didn't slow any more and the car kept rolling at 10-15km/h, she pushed the pedal to the floor (which was really soft) but the car didn't stop.

We had it towed to Subaru and they said they couldn't find a problem.

They said they are going to bring out a regional manager to have a look.

If they say that the car is fine on Monday, I am still apprehensive to drive it because luckily, this time it happened at low speed but what if it happens on the highway etc.

I bought this car back in 2013 and it only has 15000km on it. It is still covered under factory warranty but Subaru either can't find the problem or refuse to acknowledge it. The brake pedal is squishy now, but the brakes sort of work. It used to be a lot harder/more sensitive.

Any advice?

Thanks

I really don't know what to tell you, since the car is at the shop. Or is it? Can't tell by your writing. Sounds to me like you got air in the system. That really fucks with abs units.

I would tell them to road test it. If they still have it.
If you have it check the pads, and change out the brake fluid and bleed it good. The only real way to test it is to brake hard. You can do that pretty safely with low speeds. Then work your way up higher. Just make sure your at an empty long stretch of road.

Squishy pedal means time to flush the brake fluid. It could have absorbed moisture (all fluids will eventually) or perhaps you boiled it (spirited driving or track days), or perhaps you got air in the lines somehow.

Brake pad thickness OK?
Surface of rotors smooth?
Any brake line punctures or leaks?
Brake fluid reservoir topped? If recently flushed, is the level consistent from one day to the next?

HELLO, dorkbydesign and WELCOME to ...... The Forum ...... :clap:

Advice, ..... yes, don't let your girlfriend drive your car ...... :D

Seriously, like mentioned above, several times, I also suggest you have the brake system bleed.


humfrz

LOL! My girlfriend drives my car all the time and begs sometimes asking if we can go for a drive so she can drive.

Anyway i would check in this order;

Master Cylinder, make sure you're not getting any air in your system.

Check your fluid

Check the lines for any leaks

Checks the rotors and pads.


Usually when brakes go out suddenly like that and you have a squishy pedal it's going to be related to your fluid. My biggest guess is air is getting in somehow.

Any recent brake work?

IMO along with the above comments about inspecting for leaks, flush the fluid and check pad thickness would be my solution.

The only time I've had my pedal get soft/squishy was when I boiled fluid and overheated the pads by driving hard (TC and ABS can help this happen very quickly), to the floor only happens when I swap pads and it takes a few pumps for the brakes to clamp down. The former is totally possible, the latter is unlikely.

If the dealership is uncooperative you might want to check out a local shop, any shop worth it's salt should be able to do the brake maintenance in this thread. Hell you could do it yourself if you want, it isn't rocket science, lots of DIY's on this site and others, I'll be doing a full fluid flush this winter on my car (did it last year with some help, will try this year on my own).

Maybe that was part of the plan...

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/199...k-gopher-o.gif


On topic though, i've never experienced this, (thanks to Obama!) but my first plan of action would be to flush out break lines, bleed, bleed some more, test drive (10-20mph), bleed, and then test at high speeds (30-40mph..not higher).

Check break booster for leaks or lines for damage like being bent!

Yeah the car is still at the shop and they're closed until Monday. I will tell them to road test it. I may even go there and do it myself since they don't even believe me when I told them the brakes failed.

I would assume that Subaru would check all of these things but they told me nothing was wrong even though the pedal is super squishy.

Again I would expect that Subaru would've investigated this but somehow they reckon nothing is wrong.

No recent brake work, the car is completely stock except for tail lights lol

Well, @dorkbydesign ...... if it were my car, I'd take it in to a local brake shop and and have them bleed the brake system. The heck with what the dealership says.

Brakes are nothing to mess around with!


humfrz

But then you run the risk of the dealer claiming that you or the brake shop messed something up. I would tell them to test drive the car including hard stops.

Well, I would hope the brake shop would do a professional job of bleeding the system and inspecting the brakes.

Besides, I gathered from the OP's last post that the dealership cannot find anything wrong ...... :iono:


humfrz

This was Subaru's response

http://i.imgur.com/aMz4qPu.png

Apparently there's nothing wrong with the brakes, but the pedal is still super squishy.

Well now, dorkbydesign, you could take a "test drive" in another BRZ, to see if the brakes on the other car feel "super squishy" to you ...... ;)

You might consider making a habit of "double pumping" the brakes when you apply them.

(some of us still do that, as a habit from the past ....... to make sure the single master cylinder was working ..... if not, it gave us time to downshift and pull the emergency brake ...... :eyebulge:)

Or, like mentioned many times up above, have an independent brake shop bleed the system.


humfrz

Ok so I got the car back today and the pedal feels normal again.

It is noticeably firmer than it was that day.

Would they really fix it and then claim there was no problem?

That's a possibility. Another possibility is your girlfriend wrecked your car for some other reason and claimed the brakes went out ha ha.

Doubtful.

Sounds like the classic "my brakes didn't work that's why I rear ended you"

In fact here in the states you will get a moving violation of "inadequate brakes" if that happens. I suspect to prevent people just claiming their brakes failed.

I would say props to Subaru for coming out and what seems a thorough test of your vehicle.

Maybe have a private talk with your lady. Honesty is the most fundamental element in a relationship.

Good luck.

I would agree with you, except I tried the brakes myself and they were completely fucked. I'm guessing Subaru is just putting us in the "my brakes didn't work that's why I rear ended you" because it's so easy for them to screw over the little guy even when it was them in the wrong.

What's even funnier is that when I went to pick up the car, it wasn't even on their books. One guy looked for about 5-10 minutes, asked two people who didn't know they even had a BRZ in, until finally the guy who was doing the "investigation" went to get the car personally.

The whole thing is just completely fucked because it's so easy for them to make it look like we're trying to scam them instead of actually doing the right thing. But I guess that's mechanics, right?

did Subaru flush your fluid? that might be the reason it feels firmer now.

I find it hard to believe that a relatively new car would have brake problems under normal driving conditions. especially on an untouched setup like yours.

I would never go back to that dealer ever again. They must have bleed the system in their inspection. That explains the normal pedal feel. Any brake tech would automatically do that if the brakes where spongy.

As said before, where you actually there with your gf when it happened? Or she just told you about it?

Interesting points.

With a "spongy" brake pedal, it's brakes 101 to bleed the system ...... been that way since we got away from mechanical brakes (nope, no "back in the day" story).

I'm too wondering, with your GFs experience, which pedal (clutch or brake) "was pushed to the floor" when she was trying to stop .... ??

(that we may never know, she may not know - for sure)



humfrz

It's an auto so there was only one pedal she could've pushed. But I did try the brakes afterwards and there was no resistance until the last couple of mm before the pedal touched the floor.

This experience has been so weird, if I didn't try the brakes myself I would've doubted her too. But the fact is that we both love cars and are physically and emotionally hurt when someone keys our cars or even leaves a door ding. She backed into a pole once and we used that as an opportunity to learn how to paint panels. I know that to everyone on this forum, I'm just a stranger and it's very very likely that I could just be making this whole thing up to try and pin this on Subraru, but the fact is that I bought this car for us is the same reason you bought your GT/FT86/BRZ. It's an amazing car, there's nothing like the feeling this car gives you when you drive it. We love this car, and the most ridiculous thing is that we have so much respect for this car and the brand but despite all of this, they decide to completely shaft us.

I just really hope you guys can try and see things from our point of view. We know we've been completely anally/rectally fisted and we just wanted some advice and to share this story with you.

Sorry, I didn't realize it was an auto ....... :bonk:

We may never know what happened to the brakes on your car ...... :iono:

I do know, that I would NEVER take my car back to THAT dealership ..... :mad0260:

I'm glad your car's brakes are working good now.....:)

Have a fun driving fall ........ :thumbsup:


humfrz

http://i58.tinypic.com/r9imah.png

Sorry for the image quality, but I too have had an issue with the brake pedal.

When they told me it was normal, I figured, "Yea, if Subaru engineered the braking system that could be true," because of how the brakes felt in my Impreza.

However, no other car I drive has brakes that does this so I'll be asking them to check again when I go back for my next service. I'll also ask if I can test the brakes of a new FRS to see if they feel the same.

New development in the story:

My father was used to work as a mechanical engineer in Japan and got in touch with one of his old friends, an engineer/technician at the Tokyo head office.

I have asked them for the SSM3 data so that I could send it to him to analyse, to which they responded: (and I quote)
"I don't like the direction this is going, so you will have to submit that query with our legal counsel."

He wanted to explain to me the data he had, upon which I asked him what evidence that gives me because it's circumstantial to me until I see the tangible evidence.

To which he responded: (and I quote)
"Why can't you have some trust and faith that our evidence is correct?"

This really rustled my jimmies because I shouldn't need to trust or have faith in what they're telling me. I should be able to view the tangible evidence myself.

Is this a whole new level of dodgy or what?

It is quite dodgy, because they don't want litigation I believe.
I mean you have to understand there level of caution, with what happened with Toyota when a brake "failure" escapade became apparent things went crazy in the U.S. To the outside observers though you have to understand how suspicious this is to them, a person driving another person's car get's into an accident and blames the accident on the failure of something within the car. That's all that subaru will try to keep pushing, you standing your ground being adamant something is wrong should prevail. Also if I might ask has your GF had any past accidents of this nature before? And how long has she been driving?

I've known her since I was 16. We got our driving licenses together and neither of us have ever been in an accident until now.

It is frustrating that they would pin this on the little guy rather than admit they made a mistake. Terrible, terrible people.

Keep fighting man, what's australia's equivalent to our NHTSA? I would file a formal complain with them as well as get a lawyer involved if it's that serious

That's the plan now, I wasn't going to sue and just accept that maybe the one guy in the workshop was tricking everyone else, but now that it is apparent it goes all the way to the top, it is beyond frustrating.

Damn, I wish this were in the U.S. then a majority of us would be able to help spam the NHTSA with a safety complaint

Have you been able to repeat or identify the fault in the braking system yet?

I wonder if he can still file a complaint with NHTSA even if lives outside of the US. The car is global and safety issues effect all of us, no matter where you live.




https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

No. To file a complaint you need a ZIP code and U.S. VIN number. Without them the complaint just gets tossed.

Update on this.

Last week the brake system was checked again. This time they asked to keep it for a day and to drive it around a bit so they could get a full feel for any issues. Again they weren't able to find any abnormality with how the pedal felt.

I was given a loaner Corolla to drive around for the time they were diagnosing my complaint, and immediately upon pressing the brake pedal in the Corolla I felt as though I found what the issue was.

Toyota's brake feel in their modern cars is just unacceptable. My father 2007 Tundra has great brakes, his 1993 Camry has great brakes, and my step-mothers 1997 Camry also has great brake feel. But, my 2013 FRS and the loaner 2015 Corolla brakes feel woeful.

I conclude that there isn't an issue with the brakes themselves, just a personal issue with how the brakes feel.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I own 3 vehicles of different makes/models and regularly drive at least 4 more. The brakes in the FRS are absolutely on par with everything else, and probably better than most. I'm so glad they didn't go with the ultra grabby brakes that most modern, cheaper cars have. They actually have a good feel and give to them.

I'm beginning to sway to think it's a driver issue as others are believing, or maybe this is a one off issue with his car, but honestly he should get an independent mechanic to check it out....

Ummmm I think you needed to read up one more post there F. He figured it out on his own.
Personal taste is exactly that personal. I personally think the brakes are great.

This is exactly it; the brakes don't feel I feel they should.

I had them checked to make sure there wasn't a problem, there was no problem found so issue lay with my personal expectation.

I believe Toyota at this point. They had to call Toyota's corporate office and go through a couple of other hoops because the brake system is a safety issue, and to add to that Toyota wants no more bad news about their braking system.

It is a drive issue. My issue at least, I can't speak as to the OPs issue.