Porsche 991 GT3
 

$$$$ is all I see when taking the 997 GT3 to the track. Also I would say 90% of the drivers here could not even exploit the twins at the track let alone the GT3. IMO If you are a track junkie who only has room for 1 car, the twins are it. Easy to work on, very little needs to be done out of the box and they are getting pretty cheap used atm.

1/ While I agree with this there is the satisfaction of driving a Porsche. At track days it isn't about the times, it is about your driving, your fun. At the last Porsche track day I went to I was faster than all the Porsches but that doesn't detract from the people who enjoyed driving without concern for speed limits.
2/ I am guessing most owners of GT3s have more than one car.
3/ Not as expensive to write off too.

I've been to a couple Porsche events since getting my C2S and have witnessed (among other things) several GT3's from 996 to the current 991. People drive these cars hard and put them away wet, and yes, they were quite a bit faster than the gaggle of FR-S/BRZ's that were also present. But yes, they cost a lot more to run, and pray you don't crash one or blow the engine. It really all comes down to budget. If I could afford a GT3 I'd get one, but I can't so I got a little ol' Carrera S... which I pray I don't crash or blow the engine ;)

An FR-S/BRZ could definitely hang with a GT3 if it were set up right, but it would definitely cost some $$ and a lot of time to dial it all in. The GT3 already has it mostly figured out for the driver; just get in and go.

I didn't know 997 GT3s came with PDK, always thought they were manual only.

I would hope the GT3 would drive like a professionally modded and tuned 86 platform at the very minimum. Otherwise it falsely represented.

I think you're right; perhaps the OP is referring to the 991.

Pretty sure GT3 is PDk only.

997.1 and 997.2 GT3s only came in 6 speed iirc

On their website its PDK only.

Porsche 997 GT3
 

Only the 991 GT3 is PDK only. I'm fairly certain it wasn't even an option for the 997 GT3.

All you guys talking about being worried about the cost of crashing one at the track...ever heard of this thing called track insurance?

And sorry, but no FT86 will ever be able to match the braking capabilities of the GT3 due to its engine placement.

Not
Gonna
Happen

;-)


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997 GT3 and GT3 RS:

http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/10...3-RS_Specs.pdf

991 GT3:

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/91...turesandspecs/

My goodness those 997.2 GT3 RS specs make me drool... I'd love to have another 100bhp, 130 fewer pounds of weight, 6 piston brakes with 380mm front rotors, and an extra 10mph top speed. Doubtful if it's worth the extra hundred grand or so over my 997.1 C2S though, if you ask me. ;)

Track insurance is available in the States. We also have way too much liability and litigation here with regards to event insurance and thus, event entry cost, so I wouldn't be in the least bit jealous.

See plenty of slow people under-using fast cars. I guess at least they're trying, rather than driving them to the local Starbucks? Saw an 89yr-old guy auto-x'ing his 996 C4S (very slowly), made me happy that he was still out there giving it his all, though.

OP mentioned 997, not 991.

Let's not forget noise- FRS will never ever sound as good as that gt3 howl.


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I guess this post was deleted? Either way I'll reply.

1) Track insurance doesn't exist in Australia? If so, why/how? Is there some law forbidding people from insuring themselves or items for specific activities? Not saying you're wrong but I find that extremely difficult to believe.

2) What does an exotic car being driven poorly have to do with the physical performance limits of said car? Absolutely nothing. I've smoked Gallardos and GTRs at the track in my S2000. Made them disappear in my rear view mirror. Did I come out of that experience thinking my car was superior to those cars in any way? Nope.:iono:

FRS/BRZ is an amazing platform, but let's try to control the koolaid drinking around here eh?:party0030:

Yes, it's so intoxicating! Even my stock Carrera S exhaust note is leagues ahead in the sound department, compared to the "petrol exploding in a tin box" sound of the FA20. Nice little motor but leaves a lot to be desired in the sound department. I think the FA20 needs more in the induction noise department than anything. The Porsches maintain a sort of unsophisticated growl that is sadly lacking in so many other sports cars.

Hah I wouldn't say it's THAT bad :) Put a Greddy SP Elite on mine and it has a nice low thrum that actually reminds me of a modern 911 at idle and very low speed. It sounds pretty good to me, but nothing like a 911. I still miss my old 1973 911S, I ran it down the street with the intake box off, glorious air-cooled sound with 6 throttle bodies/mechanical fuel injection winding 7300 rpm!

Challenge accepted :D

Thanks to OP for the comparison. Definitely one of my dream cars!

To the OP and anyone else who has driven a GT3, how does the fun factor and feel of the twins compare?

1/ Astute observation. I deleted my post because I realised my half baked argument didn't have a lot of merit but it was replied to before it was deleted.
2/ My mistake. I based my premise on normal car insurance that excludes track day activities. I didn't realise there was a separate class of insurance for one's track car.
3/ I do not know how the braking between my BRZ and a GT3 compares from the sort of lowish speeds I see at the local track. 991 GT3 1425kg no driver, my BRZ 1260 kg with driver and Kumho V710.

Did he leave his turn signal on?

I have a fair amount of seat time in the 991 GT3. What exactly do you want to know?

Once you get over the difference in power, and the fact that it just has more grip (larger, stickier tires, 4 wheel steering), the ultimate fun factor is much lower for me:

- If I wad one up, it's a much more expensive car
- I can't spend as much time exploring the limit because the car spends less time there, because it's faster.
- GT3 owners are much less willing to do irreversible modifications to their cars. The ones that are usually buy CUPs anyways.

That's exactly the kind of reply I was after Mike :thumbsup: Thanks as always.

virtually every GT3 owner will disagree with me, but I find the ND Miata more satisfying to drive.

Now the GT4.... I need to get my hands on one of those. As strange as it sounds, I find no shortage of GT3/GT3RS seat time, but I can't get any GT4 seat time for the life of me.

Interesting, thanks for your insight.

While on the subject of expensive sport cars, has anyone got the chance to track a GTR? I wonder if the fun factor is about the same or better than a 911.

It's an oversized evo.

Wow for once I agree with Mike! :bellyroll:

I many ways the GTR is the complete opposite what the 86 is trying to be, in that has more driving aids than a space craft on auto pilot.

The GT3 is a weapon though. People gave me all kind of shit about "should have bought a cayman" blah blah when I got my GT86 but I always respond with the only thing i'd consider chopping the GT86 for is a GT3.

Reportedly the Cayman GT4 is only 2 seconds slower around the nurburgring than the 997 GT3

Finally, the 997 GT3 doesnt have suspension in the same league as Penske or Ohlins TTX. Everything but the 997 GT3 RS you can get the Ohlins road and track DFV as a decent upgrade. You can also get the TTX36/46 but its like $10k.

:(

My best friend makes the same face when he hears those comments.:cry:

Do you disagree? :cry:

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988

lol it is a heavy beast no doubt. but the lap times dont lie.

A GT4 would be more fun though. Thats why I have a GTR and an 86. One for crushing people's dreams on backroads or straights. And the other for pure fun and drifting around in.

[rant]
When watching cars at track days I see "classifications" of speed. There is slow, quick, there is fast, there is the crazy fast, then there are the race cars. I have only seen a GTR once at the local track; it was being driven. It fell into the crazy fast category. But the thing that gets me a little is that the car is being partly controlled by the software. It used to be that if a super car was being poorly driven it would chew you up and spit you out. Now days the software allows ordinary drivers to drive quickly. It does not make the cars fool-proof but it makes them more accessible to more drivers. This is a great thing for egos but some of the credit for going fast has to go to the people writing the software.

[/rant]

Tru Dat :party0030:

yeah damn those computers, paddle shifters, traction settings, and ABS brakes... pretty much standard in every supercar now. making everyone feel all safe. Back in my day.. lol

its a gift and a curse. The GTR is an everyday supercar. I've driven hard on my local backroads when it was 20 degree out and I had the MPSS on. I've been caught on out in 2 inches of snow on the oem potenzas. No issues. Rain isn't a problem with spirited runs either. Had i bought a viper/z06 i could only use it half as often.

That's a very GTR owner statement of you, with which I always rebuttle: I don't care what lap times a car turns with someone else at the wheel; I care what lap times an owner turns in their own car. You can only crush people's hopes and dreams if you actually can run that time yourself. Saying that XYZ driver did ABC lap time at a track doesn't change the result of a gutted civic dusting a GTR at the canyon...

Bench racing only results in internet arguments.

For example, lets use Willow Springs.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU4Sa3RCCV4"]Willow Springs International Raceway BRZ/FRS/GT86 lap record 1:30.778 - YouTube[/ame]

I left a TON of time on the table in that lap...



Why not drive the Viper/Z06/whatever other car as much as the GTR? I agree that the GTR is way, way easier to drive for the average person, but the weight is a huge killer...

Why don't they build an "ultralight" gtr? That's what I don't get. I would think you'd be able to gut it and get it down below 3400 lbs.


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I only seen one gtr at the track in group one. Guy was standing on the throttle all day.car was all over the place but you could see the computer working it out. I just let him pass every session on warm up lap and he never caught me by the end of session. He even ask in the classroom if people could give him point by when the checker came out. But hey car sounds good and goes fast. Wouldn't mind having a go in it.

Because then it would be the price of a Huracan...

The Nismo is already 150k, and it's a whopping 37lbs lighter than the base model.