This is why you need an aftermarket header for tracking with an FI car
 

I think I have found the weak spot of the OEM headers :lol:
when I cracked my first OEM header at the track day last year it made me think that the cats might be too restrictive or simply got a defective oem piece, ..so I bought a couple of used OEM manifolds just in case, :)

picture from last year

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dW...g=w480-h270-no

and this year I destroyed the second manifold at the same exact spot, I put the third OEM header and am waiting for the HKS EL header from the coating place
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WK...=w1247-h935-no


see the second header I destroyed and the third one above so you can definitely tell the coloration
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Bp...Q=w702-h935-no

It's pretty obvious that OEM is a cost-effective, low-quality mild steel manifold and the weld on that spot cannot take the excessive heat for an extended period of time (ahem, tracked when boosted
) both incidents happened when the ambient temps were around 95F (mid July), so for those who want to keep the OEM manifold with their FI FRS/BRZ and planning to go to track days during hot summer days, I'd say think twice :)


I recently received my HKS EL header which is currently being 2000F ceramic coated and will be wrapped, it will be mated to the Berk catted front pipe which I also purchased at the same time when I ordered the HKS..

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/x2...=w1247-h935-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Vt...=w1247-h935-no

I've never owned anything from Berk but overall it looks fine, I'll see how the fitment will be
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JJ...A=w702-h935-no

also these are not metal cats, oh well ..cannot complain, I used to get expensive HFCs in the past and not all of them had metal cats in them..
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pk...=w1247-h935-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ga...A=w637-h849-no

Thanks for the pictures.

sure :thumbsup:

I forgot to mention though, the reasons I tried to avoid the aftermarket headers at the beginning are including but not limited to :

• no real power advantage when boosted except maybe 5-10 whp (as opposed to an NA car where you can see higher gains since it's the biggest bottleneck)
• OEM HEAT SHIELD
• OEM fitment, EL header design and quality (well at this point I am not sure about the second one, haha)
• cost (duh) interestingly this year I was able to get the HKS EL header for $700 (nearly $500 cheaper than last year) ..I still think $700 is really expensive considering the size of the headers

Damn, and here I thought I could unload another OEM manifold on you.... ;-)

Great pics and info. Another con to aftermarket headers (after living with them for a while...) is noise. Dee-am. Loud, but fun (sometimes). I have JDL UELs.

Always appreciate your posts, Glam.

:) glad that I can help

I agree with OEM is better. I just switch all my exhaust(Catless Borla UEL, Motiv OP, and Perrin 2.5inch Resonated CB) back to stock. WoW what a difference. I don't think I can't go back to aftermarket. I love the quiet smooth OEM sound.

I have to mention though, OEM is better designed, well... it's OEM ...but I cannot say the same for the material quality, would you still use the OEM unit for track? after seeing this? I know I wouldn't :)

of course, not so many people track their boosted cars on a very hot day, it might be just fine for street use or maybe some mild track use though..

I am a canyon and mild track user. I also removed my oil cooler so I don't think I will be using the car but for fun mild track days as its also my daily.

what type of oil cooler was it? did it leak?

Do you ever log your sustained EGTs at the track? Might be worth it instead of going through a few headers.

of course :), I took logs on both road and track,contacted with my tuner and got a new map to make sure..

I think EGTs were just high enough to crack the OEM header but still within the normal range for a proper SS header.. in both times, they failed when the temps were the highest in season (typically around 95F in our local PNW tracks), starts failing on the second session, at the exact same spot, with the exact same symptoms ..it's almost a controlled environment for a stress test :)

No leaks just returning mostly to stock. Plus it was overkill for DD. Oil temps at night or cold days were way to low IMO. It the 170-180's F

Wow that's pretty telling about oem headers - though this usage is waay out of their design envelope. I couldn't tell from reading your post on my phone- did you try gutting the primary cat?


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Nope, I'll keep the aftermarket header. I only drive my FR-S a couple times a week, so the noise is a "novelty" and I guess adds to the overall experience. Not sure if it is how small the 86 is or how little sound insulation or both, but my old 500HP Spec.B was a lot quieter.

DJ

These failures could be caused by your tune. There are others out there with stock header and FI and so far you are the only one that seems to be having this problem.

Holy cow! The first one looks like it separated at a seam. But the second one... It takes serious heat and really strong pulses to blow metal out like that.

Good choice on the replacement!

:party0030:

"overkill".. I hear this word pretty often these days :)
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=76

for a track day no cooling mod is "overkill" IMO, there is "adequate" or "inadequate " cooling..

if you don't have a thermostat or thermostatic sandwich plate (so called "high flow plates" which I've never been a fan of) or don't block the oil cooler during cold winters/days, it's expected to see those kind of temps .. if you still have the oil cooler I would keep it and add a thermostat (not a thermostatic plate that is prone to failure)

I would get some sort of oil cooler (OEM preferably ) even when stock,

I didn't but I bought a gutted OEM header from craigslist (for track only) and results were the same.. ideally we would want to header as far as possible from the heads to avoid a catastrophic failure when the cats go bad, so instead of getting catless FP and Catted header, catted FP and Catless header sounds a bit safer..

nope, it's not tune related Pete, FYI my tune is on the conservative side and I know I am leaving some power on the table because of that..
we also hear many people claim that they never pass 230 F with their boosted cars, makes you wonder how hard they drive or the average RPMs during that specific session :)

I am willing to bet you that I can destroy the OEM header with any boosted car as long as the ambient temps are the same and there is no restriction to the boost or tune ;)

if you think about it, it shouldn't take too much heat to crack a low quality mild steel header at the welds

Today, I've got my HKS headers from the coating place that
@Drift-Office recommended (thanks Bob!) I am hoping that it won't crack this time :)

I will install them soon along with the other things (Cosworth thermostat, Berk FP and possibly a home brew oil cooler since I don't like the current offerings in the market) :)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fL...A=w600-h800-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/am...g=w600-h800-no

I was thinking tune has to be a factor as well - a lot of factors affect EGT. Often 'conservative' tunes are backing off on timing, and retarding timing can increase EGT in many cases - but I'm sure your tuner has a far better idea than I do. I've seen your track vids and you hustle the car pretty good- I think you made a sound investment :)


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Your going to love the coating. I had my headed coater with 2000 degree ceramic inside and out and it made a big difference.

That was my car on the dyno at @Drift-Office when you stopped by ... :party0030:

good to know Steve :thumbsup:

that combined with the Titanium (sounds fancy when they say "Titanium" I think, haha) and the wrap that came with the header I think it should be fine.. I will also get some more heat wrap to cover all the oil and fuel lines in engine bay, close to the header area..

I was also planning a custom vent on my hood then I decided to wait till I get my Vented hood instead .. I have a few other projects for cooling, will keep you posted

wait a minute, when? :)

also, if you don't have any plans for September you should come join the RRS events , they now offer Monday-Tuesday events, I couldn't make it to the last one (thanks to the headers) but my friends really liked it .. open track all day

Today. They installed the Crawford intake spacers.

oh ok, yeah I was in Auburn area and called Bob soon after left the coating place, I was planning to go there but decided to come back home since they were about to go for a lunch and I had to work this afternoon :)

But what's going to cover up the crickets??

It had a thermostat but temps still stayed low. I am sure it was not defective. If I do keep the car, I will invest in an OEM like setup which should help a bit.

What are your air fuels? You sure you weren't overheating the OEM header cats cuasing a good amount of heat pre cat.

I just went back to stock exhaust too. I felt like I was always shouting at everyone. I go to the track plenty (I've been averaging about twice per month this summer) but the car is driven on the street 99.9% of the time. I've built it for it's actual purpose, not it's "intended" purpose :lol:

yes, I am pretty sure :)

what exactly do you mean by "stock exhaust"? like the full exhaust system including the headers or header back or just catback ? :)

either way, that's something I would never do :) even for street use only, once you drastically change your power output, you also need to make other drastic changes to keep the car in a good working order and "free exhaust flow" comes first in that list.. each his own of course

It's not a tune issue. I've observed this failure before.

yes, I remember we had this conversation ..
Didn't you also say it was an NA car and melted cats or something?

Stock tune too :p

Nice! That's why you were in the hood! Pete was around too during lunch time, we were working on his car with the PBBs for several hours. :)


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

case is closed now :)

I never knew he would be there haha what a timing :)

Big difference? How so? Curious what you observed.