Finally looks like there is a proper bolt-in roll bar solution!
 

http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/auto...l#.VcPVtvlVhBc

Four points, harness bar, priced reasonably.

WIN!

Pretty sure that's been out awhile. Mounting plates look really small, I'd like to see where they land.

Been around a while. Requires welding for front mounting.

Hmmm, I hadn't run across it before.

Could have swore the only thing I saw was whatever shop is making that $1500+ roll bar.

Was around back in '13 before my car was caged. Great option.

Proper and bolt in are not words that should go together when talking about a safety device like a roll bar.

I'd argue that a bolted in design could be just as strong, but it would have to be designed properly. The problem I see with most roll bars is lack of any landing pad other than the 3x5 (if that) plate at the end of the hoop.

Does anyone have an install picture of the auto power bar?

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMmjaaSQP08"]Roll/Flip - YouTube[/ame]

Yep, properly designed bolt-in roll bars don't work AT ALL. This is the exact same bar I used to run in my Miata track rat. Based on the tach and being in 4th gear means he left the track at ~95mph. (Note to everyone, when you go off like that, LET GO OF THE DAMN WHEEL!)

There are multiple, multiple incidents showing Boss Frog and Hard Dog roll bars saving the occupants in Miatas from injury.


What do you mean by landing pad? Are you talking about a plinth box like is designed to mount welded in roll cages? Or are you talking about a plate on the outside of the car that places the mounting plate in double shear?

Exactly. How you bolt it in is a major part of the equation but the one in the link has one solid bar for the main hoop, a cross bar and two rear bars for rear bracing. If it's "bolted" to properly reinforced and wide landing pads then it would be fine. Landing pad is the KEY.


pic from link:
http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/medi...race-60000.jpg

BTW: GODDAMN. I hope you have considering using a head/neck restraint system going forward.. that looked ROUGH. Glad you're OK. Just went through something similar so I can relate.

Reference the 4 landing points of the cage in the picture, if just bolted down with that little surface area they can punch through the floor pan or body in a significant impact like yours, this I have seen. So a plate or "metal pad" that covers more surface area, often used on the underside of the body in which the cage bolts to spreads the load. I think a wider pad should be on both sides of the body the bars are bolted to.

My welded in cage has thick pads (IT Spec) that cover a large surface area. In the past I used a bolted bar like this one but used larger plates above and below the body for a greater spread.

No, that wasn't me. I've only wrecked on track on 2 wheels. :) I was just using it as an example for those who like to spout off without experience on that which they are spouting off.

Yes, like I mentioned, a properly designed bolt-in bar will have larger backing plates that place the "landing pads" in double shear. Although a weld-in cage should be mounted using plinth boxes, not just landing pads, a la:

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...1/DSCN3425.jpg

This is what happens with small "landing pads" without backing plates placing things in double shear (at my local track, car prepped by CarFx, essentially a bunch of jack holes who barely know how to turn a wrench)

http://images.thecarconnection.com/l...00232515_l.jpg

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/...ipe8nnjjpg.jpg

http://images.thecarconnection.com/l...00232523_l.jpg

You can see them punched through the floorboard.

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/jpg...x-musta-7w.jpg

Did he dieded ?

Nope, somehow walked away.

I think it was something to do with using stock seats and belts allowing him to "fold" out of the way. That place builds terrible, terrible cars.

However, Hallett is of the opinion (and make you sign the waiver) that if you're willing to put it on track, then go for it.

I have wrecked on 2 wheels on the street (4 of us went down, 1 died) and once on 2 wheels at Hallett where a Shoei helmet saved my life after coming off the bike north of 70mph and landing head first (was knocked out long enough they red flagged the session).........I just don't understand how guys will skimp on safety.

I guess it's the whole "It will happen to them, but never me."

Spencer Fab make a excellent cage
 

I went with a Spencer Fab cage out of Seabrook New Hampshire,

No diagonal in the main hoop down, what's up with the splices in the main hoop to floor tubes, no X or Nascar bars for the doors? There doesn't seem to be something from the main rear hoop coming forward to come down the A pillars, rear down tubes aren't tied into the fender structure with plinth boxes?

Is that even DOM tubing?

EDIT: That's a drag cage, not a road cage, isn't it? But seriously those splices (for no apparent reason) are incredibly suspect.

in many ways, this is the belief.

consider the damage done to your very thin sheet metal of your car, caused by the heat of welding..

properly placed landing points for your cage, coupled with large backing plates and proper hardware, has been proven to be very strong.

look up HARDDOG (bethania garage) for more info.

The mounting set up for the Hardog bar and the BRZ bar in the pic aren't even close. I hope that's just a stock photo and not what the mounting plates actually look like. I can't think of anything on the floor of my BRZ strong enough that tiny plate wouldn't push through in a rollover. Who wants to test it?:bonk::D

Having said that, I believe in a typical HPDE we are far more likely to hit something head on or with the side of the car than to roll over. Get a HANS and make sure that your roll bar is padded with SFI padding anywhere that your helmet might come in contact with it. If your are using a harness with no HANS, well that's just stupid, #3 wants to have a talk with you.

Invest in your safety gear as if your life depends on it.

I am curious to see more on the spencer fabrication cage.
He seems to be a knowledgeable guy , hopefully he will chime in , about his bar location decisions @Spencerfabrication

i too am curious about the metal splice in the middle of the door bar...

The splices are to make the door bars removable for daily use, yes its a street/drag car and yes it is 0.120 DOM tubing fully tig welded. The main structure is welded in while the door bars bolt in and out.

NHRA does not require diagonals at all, the diagonal in the rear and the passenger door bar are more then whats required.

The splices are very beefy interlocking clamps,

http://www.tmrcustoms.com/store/inde...oducts_id=2078

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps1pvmcqzq.jpg

i see. the previous pix were kinda hard to follow.

Hold your horses there, the entire cage was built to meet customer requests as well as the rule book, street/strip NHRA approved. Door bars are removable to make it more daily livable.

The rear bars go straight to the floor on the "frame rails" in front of the rear shock mounts. Plinth box's are not necessary in the slightest, they are simply a tool used in cage construction. The box's are collapsed during welding so the cage can be dropped down and the top accessed. The same can be accomplished by punching holes in the floor but thats for full cages, this bar comes out the door so I welded it out side the car. I actually try to avoid plinth box's in my cages as I find they get in the way of seat mounting in small cars and a box at the A pillar gives a nice edge to bang your ankles on.

This roll bar is really straight forward.

I should have been more clear on my application for drag racing and that I requested removable door bars for my daily driving. Spencer Fab does top quality work with premium materials or I wouldn't have used them.
I met Mark the owner and he's a stand up guy. I feel confident that if I need a cage which I hope I don't that it will keep me safe and perform it's job flawlessly. I don't fly by night and skimp on safety items!!!

you should totally try out racing with turns too!

I thought about building a SCCA car next year, who knows I still might.. Right now I'm focused on getting a FA20 in the 9s then who knows whats next lol

i applaud your efforts!

i totally don't get drag racing, but i understand that folks spend a ton of money on it, so i respect that part.


i'm slow at autocross, but i've decided that 45 seconds of adrenaline is way more betterer than 14 seconds of straight line sleep (i'm poor, i won't build a 10second anything)

I just posted some pics on my build page check it out


FT86PROJECT9S

I never got drag racing either till I got to know FRS Justin. Now I want to give it a try, and there is a strip 20min from me

No worries, and hence my edit.

Once I started thinking about it I realized it was an NHRA cage. So I apologize to Spencer for being disrespectful.

I was looking at the cage from a road racing/TT standpoint. My sincere apologies (Seriously, I'm not being a sarcastic **** this time!).

Its all good brother

NHRA spec to 8.50. The lower rocker bar isn't needed, just added to help stiffen things up

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51...psviihq0mn.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51...ps15d3orai.jpg


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51...psodmta6tp.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51...psb5g1xexd.jpg

The absence of a plinth box isn't indicative of a bad cage. I rarely see them in race cars. If you look at SCCA Improved Touring cage specs it's not even mentioned. However! What's really neat about a builder that does use this technique is that he cage is installed (at least the main hoop and forward bars) with holes in the body of the car so the cage can "drop" down so the tops points of the cage can be welded completely. Then the cage is raised up so it's flush with the a-pillars, roof and body and welded into the plinth boxes.

I just dropped off another race car I just bought to my mechanic to fix this very flaw.. The top of the cage weld points aren't complete so I need the windshield to come out and the roof skin to come off to finish them off.. Or we cut 2.5" holes in the roof to get to the weld and then bondo that part of the roof to make it flush.. Grrrr. But the landing pads in this new car are very thick, well above GCR spec.

I can't believe that so many cage builder don't have a clue on how it is done... I had the same problem with my cage and had to fix some unfinished welds.. no more craftsmanship these days !

I did a lot of searching and the best I can tell the rear of the auto power roll bar lands on the wheel arches.

Does anyone have pictures of one installed?
@Element Tuning ?

Does *anybody* make a decent bolt-in 4-point suitable for HPDE use?

Yes, www.cantrellmotorsport.com. It isn't on their website but I have one and posted some info on it. Not cheap, but very well made and you can remove the rear crossbar so you can leave the seat in for a quieter car on the street and to haul tires to the track.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=16

Here is mine.
http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/q...2BA72A8048.jpg

We've got plans for one. Can't say more than that right now, but we'll get started roughly this time next month. We'll of course be publishing the design process on here.

That's surprising, I guess the cars (and builders) I'm used to seeing at my local track (typically BMW coupes and the like), there is always a plinth box to tie the floor/rocker/rear seat area into one spot.

I also wouldn't hold SCCA IT cars as any kind of standard to aspire to. :bellyroll:

I think I'm going to have my buddy who has built multiple competition cages take the Autopower bar and modify the front mounts.


$1600 for a bolt-in 4 point is not reasonable in any stretch of the imagination. Add another $600-700 and you can have a properly built 6 weld in cage built to your exact spec.