BRZ NAV system GPS signal issues?
 

Hi,

I managed to get one of the early BRZs in the Seattle area. I took delivery on May29th. Love the car in so many ways.

However, I'm having lots of issues with the NAV system.
Unless the skies are clear (not often in Seattle,) the NAV system gets stuck in a loop of searching for GPS signal. It will bounce my location around up to a mile radius of my actual location. The signal indicator goes back and forth from 1 dot to 3.

I assumed it was a problem in the unit or antenna so I took it to the dealer.
They replaced everything. Head unit, antenna, and gps receiver.
Within 2 days it was back to the same tricks. It's basically useless.

I'm going back to the dealer later this week but I want to know if others are having the same issues.
It's fair to say that GPS is usually slower for some reason in the pacific northwest. My portable gps and phone take about twice as long here to get a signal lock compared to other places I've lived, but they usually lock, no matter the weather conditions.

So...am I alone on this one?

no you aren't alone

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8228

If you tap the satellite picture while it is searching for satellites it will show you a readout of what satellites it is seeing. It seems like it is just a poorly designed antenna, but it could also be the chipset they used because sometimes it will seem to just stop searching and I won't get signal at all for an entire trip. Other times it will come and go, and sometimes it will just be solid the whole time.

I am going to call the Subaru tech support number and report it and I would encourage everyone else to do the same and also tell your dealer. If enough people report it they will be aware of it and fix it.

Sheesh, I must have gotten lucky. 0 issues with my NAV or BT at this point.

I've only had issues with my GPS once, while I was down in LA. I do have problems with my Bluetooth all the time though, I wonder if it's worth taking back to the dealer to have them look at it.

I've had some GPS issues too but not often, of course that's probably because I use my cell over the car's nav almost exclusively because frankly it sucks not even counting signal issues. The head unit is my one big and only complaint about the car.

Okay.

My dealer is getting in touch with subaru na and I've contacted subaru directly as well.
I'll post results here.

Nav & radio both get terrible reception.

I experienced a bunch of GPS issues but have narrowed it down to the Bluetooth Audio... BTA works great in my car, it connects to my iPhone flawlessly!

The issue is when I am using BTA, the GPS has a lot of difficulty getting a signal. As soon as I go to FM, the GPS connects -- very strange.

Not the case for me, since I have not been using Bluetooth audio (using USB instead) and still seem to have TERRIBLE satellite reception. Even had it searching for the duration of the trip with no luck at all. For the most part, when it works I am very impressed - but that hasn't been often lately.

It's funny that you guys posted this today, never had any issues with mine till last night, while on a 5 hour road trip, the whole time the unit couldn't keep a satellite signal. Luckily I can do the trip with my eyes shut, but it was annoying that it couldn't keep a signal. That was the first time it did it for me.

I have one spot in my neighboorhood where it states GPS signal lost and then picks right back up, same spot every time.

scared the crap out of me when it yells signal lost! but it must have picked it back quickly.

Traffic
 

I have been having trouble getting traffic results on my nav. It worked the first day amd then stopped working. Anyone else having those issues?

This is a good description of what I often see too. If you tap the spinning satellite on the full page map display it shows the satellite reception. On that display it often bounces back and forth between one dot and three in the upper right GPS status, while turning the accuracy and UTC time display on and off at the same time- with about two seconds in each state. When the UTC time comes on it starts at the time when it went off, which is about two or three seconds behind, then immediately updates to the correct time for a second or two before turning off again. This can happen continuously while the signal strength shows four strong red bars without ever locking. When not locked my location on the map wanders all around with no relation to my actual motion. Usually if it gets six red bars for a short while it will suddenly lock, turning the bars green and yielding my correct location. Once locked it typically stays locked until I shut off the car. But, then even if I immediately start the car again, it can go back to its perpetually unlocked state. If you check the status in the Info:system check page it says the GPS is off until the system locks, then it shows the number of green bars on the GPS reception page. I have been using Bluetooth with my Atrix phone and listening to XM radio with no issues.

Interesting. I will try turning off the Bluetooth on my Atrix phone and switching from XM radio to FM and see if the GPS behaves better.

[Edit] Well I tried turning everything else off and it made no difference to the GPS failure of the Nav. I completely shut off my phone, I turned Bluetooth off on the head unit, I switched the audio to FM then turned it off: and still no GPS lock with blinking one to three dots for status. I tried with the car off in acc mode while four red reception bars showed steady, then started the car and stopped at a stop sign for three minutes with five red reception bars and never got a lock. I did all this testing in a school parking lot with a good view of the sky. Total testing time: 20 minutes. Total GPS lock: zero.

Yup. That's the one. Snagged a cell phone video on the way home:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jVNXQPWQgM&feature=plcp"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jVNXQPWQgM&feature=plcp[/ame]

Turning off bluetooth and xm have no impact. XM and bluetooth otherwise work fine. I would complain that XM signal is a little poor but I don't really care.

subaru stock gps suck! I use the gps on my phone instead. waaaaay more reliable. It is hard to hold it though while I'm driving. There is no right place to put it upright.

Here is my example with five unlocked satellites:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKX6Mt0a3sE&feature=plcp"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKX6Mt0a3sE&feature=plcp[/ame]

This isn't the only condition where the unit fails to lock. Sometimes it just continuously shows 2 dots on the signal indicator, but the location is still wrong and the status shows GPS off: in that state it doesn't show the spinning satellite icon on the map display so I can't get to the reception page.

My GPS always loses signal when I go through a certain part of my neighborhood which happens to be under some power lines at an intersection. It takes a good five minutes to get a new lock.

I've posted in the other thread in the electronics section but just wanted to add the same thoughts.

Mine either has no signal or does what someone else says, it cycles between a strength of 1-3 dots and updates the map erratically with me on a road about 5 miles from my actual location.

There is a specific freeway where this happens every time travelling in the south direction, I can't get a good signal at all anywhere. When I change over to another freeway and am headed east, it picks the signal back up and seems fine...

I'm hoping this isn't a hardware issue but I will call SOA just to get it documented since it's an obvious issue... I can use a handheld GPS and my phone while in the car and it has no issues.

I did some more investigation. From the Imprezza forum and some experimentation I found out the GPS antenna is under the dash behind the head unit. The roof antenna is just for XM and FM. You can restart the head unit without shutting off the car by pressing and holding the map then the audio buttons. You can enter the head unit service menu by pressing and holding the map, then the voice command, then the audio buttons all together. In the service menu there is a GPS and vehicle sensor status. Looking at the vehicle sensor status it shows the wrong speed as shown below. I wonder if this is part of the problem? (Note: this wrong data on the navigation diagnostic display is from the speedometer sender, not the GPS)
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5466/7...d32cff07_z.jpg
By the way, when the head unit is doing its blinking signal status dance, in the service menu the GPS status is constant with signal levels according to the height, but not color, of the bars on the head unit reception page.

Good info. I got good lock in 5 minutes this morning on the way to work.
Next time it goes bizerk I'll check the menus on mine.

I wonder if we could fashion a gps antenna extension to put it in a better location.

I wonder if there is something metal in the vent structure that could be blocking the signal?

I don't want to be that guy but do you think we are having enough issues to actually complain to Subaru about this?

I sent an email via the Subaru.com site, and here is the reply:
Dear John: Thank you for your message to Subaru of America, Inc. At this point in time, we suggest you arrange to have the navigation system on your 2013 Subaru BRZ inspected by an authorized Subaru dealership. We depend on our dealers to inspect and diagnose concerns with Subaru vehicles. Once we have the results of the dealer's inspection, we can determine how we will help you. We appreciate the opportunity to be of service! Sincerely, Judy York, CDS E-Mail Representative, Subaru of America, Inc.

[THREAD ID:1-XFEAB8]



-----Original Message-----

From: xxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com
Sent: 6/20/2012 07:55:30 AM
To: CustDlrServices@subaru.com
Subject: (SR #:1-2021244595) Vehicle Problem

My new BRZ has a problem with the NAV not locking GPS satellites. Other owners on ft86club.com report the same problem. Here is a description of one symptom:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...468#post267468
Note the thread was started by an owner whose dealer changed everything but couldn't fix the problem.

I've already contacted Subaru NA directly and my dealer is talking to them as well.
I paid a premium on the subaru versus the scion to get the headlights and nav. I expect them to work. My nav fails 75+% of the time so I certainly expect this to be corrected.

BTW...the response I got back from subie na:
Dear MR Floppy: Thank you for your message to Subaru of America, Inc. We are sorry to learn of the difficulties you have experienced with the navigation system on your BRZ. We will research this further and get back to you by the end of the week. We appreciate you taking the time to contact us! Sincerely, Judy York, CDS E-Mail Representative, Subaru of America, Inc.


I suggest everyone who has flakiness with their nav to email subaru. More datapoints will help. We're also likely to have better success if you doing a good job describing the symptoms and are polite. For example:
"You c*ck suckers need to fix my busted-a$$ get me places box".

I'm going to my dealer today to get some paperwork so I'll make sure I have the service manager report it.

I did some more testing in my case and I found if I waited a few minutes in my driveway for the Nav to get good satellite reception it worked the entire same drive where it previously didn't work. I think it's when I start moving without it first syncing up it has a terrible time ever getting a satellite signal. This time around it never lost signal.

Tomorrow morning I'll try it again just leaving right away and see if it ever gets a good signal.

That was my thought too. The problem is when it never syncs- even after waiting 20 minutes or more.

all the time :(


called my dealer have an appointment tomorrow at 730am

I posted this in the technical section accidentally. Here it is again:

I just picked up my GBS Limited 2 days ago and drove over 800 miles from NY to Illinois without any GPS issues. Now that it is home though, the nav unit refuses to reliably lock on to satellites. I tried sitting in my driveway with the engine running and the sat lock screen visible and I'm only getting 2 sats (low on the western horizon) and they won't lock (green dots on sky view display). My iPhone locks in immediately. I know from my flying days that there are usually at least 6 sats that should be somewhere overhead at all times. I pulled the following from the FAA site:

"With the baseline satellite constellation, users with a clear view of the sky have a minimum of four satellites in view. It’s more likely that a user would see six to eight satellites."

I have to wonder if the head unit doesn't have a complete or accurate satellite position database as there should be more visible satellites.

I have to agree with other posts that once moving, the unit has a terrible time trying to lock into satellites. Once it does lock in, it seems fine.

Hopefully, Subaru will work on a fix for this as it is annoying to have the nav screen bouncing around. I prefer to turn the display off or leave it on audio.

Hey man, I added you to the list of NW owners:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6070

I noticed mine is dropping signal in the exact same spot without fail. sometimes it picks back up sometimes it doesnt.

My navigation also loses signal suddenly and gets stuck in a loop trying to find satellites again. I think it's ridiculous that I can get turn by turn directions on my cellphone perfectly yet a purpose built navigation unit has problems. I'll talk to the dealer when I take it in next.

I noticed my map display showed my car moving way too fast when the nav had no satellites this morning. So, I think the wrong speedo value in the service menu picture I posted before is at least causing problems for the nav unit's dead-reckoning. This error might also have something to do with slow GPS lock while or after the car is moving.

Clear skies yesterday allowed me to travel to and through downtown Boston without issues, however whenever it's cloudy the GPS is pretty much unusable.

I lived in Seattle for a few months and occasionally go back for biz trips. My Android smartphone sometimes loses GPS signal for miles at a time because of, like you said, the cloudy weather.

The BRZ's touchscreen software is quite buggy. The GUI isn't as responsive as my mom's Prius' system, the graphics look a bit basic, I was able to get the radio to cover half of the map's menu buttons and had to reset the device to get out of it, it's frozen on me, and I can't delete past bluetooth devices from its pairing history (I'm a software quality assurance engineer for a smartphone company and ran some tests on this unit with our smartphones). It seems like Subaru contracted out a company to make this unit which isn't as mass produced as, say, a Pioneer AVIC or, in terms of navi-only systems, a Garmin. They don't have as large a team dedicated to this unit as other companies who regularly churn out significant maintenance builds to fix the smallest bugs. Those companies have the best software engineers in the industry retained from past product generations to improve their products with each generation. The BRZ unit was made seemingly only for North America with a contracted design team with which there seems to be no commitment of a product refresh and minimal maintenance releases, if any. Because this unit alone won't be a cash cow, resources aren't heavily invested in it. The GPS system is but one of many systems in this all-in-one system and does not seem as robust as other GPS systems. This is true for any factory in-car navi, unfortunately. Garmin units, aftermarket headunits, and smartphones have many people dedicated to the GPS system alone and see more continuity in terms of sustaining quality throughout a product lifecycle. For those other products, the GPS chipset maker (usually Qualcomm), the hardware maker's GPS radio engineers, and the software companies (like Google Maps) put tons of effort in pefecting the quality because consumer electronics products have more payoff.

So based on Switch's post it sounds like we may not get much support for this thing. Has anyone done any research on a possible replacement?

The BRZ Audio/Navigation unit is made by Fujitsu Ten

having so much problems with my navi...when i'm driving and I want to check if there's traffic ahead it doesn't show anything just a bunch of "0"

then if I want to search for an address or a location it doesn't let me push any buttons or I cant type in a location from where I want to go. :(

so sad....also just found out today that my telephone doesn't let me contact to my phonebook....