Would you prefer that the FRS had a "real" engine?
 

Reading a thread on the GRM board on FRS ownership. While the joys of driving are unanimous, the lack of love for the boxer is pretty strong from those that own the car.

So, I thought to bring the question over to FRS central...Would you prefer that the Twins had a non-boxter engine?

My unjustified opinion after 3 years is that I wont ever buy another car with a Subaru engine. Not that it has done me bad, but I just dont like it and time is not making me any fonder.

And before anyone spews chapter and verse from The Book of Subaru about CG being ruined: don't bother because unless you move the engine to the roof, the difference would not be noticeable.

"Real" engine??
"Non-Boxter"??

Can't speak for others, but I love this engine.

I be trollin', they be hatin'
:dnftt:

OP doesnt like it cause it doesnt have a turbo most likely

The engine works, it moves the car along fine (for my needs), I have had no problems and overall it is an engine. Don't really care who makes it as long as it gets the job done.
Plenty of guys have proven you can wring loads of power out of it that is what you want so not sure what defines a "real" engine anyway.

It's not just the lower CoG. Because it is physically lower, the front hood is lower which allows you to see better. It is also better balanced so it doesn't need a balance shaft or heavy counterweights. And one of my favorite features is having the oil filter on top for super clean and easy oil changes. Overall, it is my favorite engine design but I just wish they would increase the displacement a bit to 2.3-2.4 to improve power. If this car did not have a boxer engine, it wouldn't be as special to me.

100hp per litre! That's sounds real enough to me.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

The first time I test drove one, I told the dealership I was looking at other cars because I'm not a fan of boxers. I looked past it, and now that I own one, it's become apparent the reasons it was utilized. In the world of new cars, this engine is really easy to work on for the average joe. I'm not going to spew the spacial and performance benefits listed everywhere.

I don't know why you wouldn't consider it a real engine...? Porsche thinks boxers are good enough to use. There's also a flat-six in the Lykan Hypersport.

I would like to see you own a rotary for a few months and report back.

You say you don't like it, but provide no reason?

I wish it was an inline-4 only because it would be easier work on.

I also wish it sounded like a boxer from the factory.

No.

This car has a ridiculously low center of gravity, one of the lowest of any production car if not THE lowest. It feels planted. The flat engine contributes to that. It makes plenty of power for the weight of the vehicle while not shifting the engine's mass around above the wheels. It would be difficult to get a better balance.

If you want a car with more power sitting up higher above the wheels, you have plenty of choices. Go buy one of those and quit whining about this one.

I've always been a big fan of Subaru. I like the sounds they make compared to their inline 4 competitors. I came from the FWD-Turbo camp of the SRT4 world and though it was a very fun car and it made all the right noises and lots of torque, I never really fell in love with it. Two of the best Japanese automakers, both known for quality and reliability, came together to build this great platform. I've never owned a Subaru or a Toyota before this car, but I absolutely love it. The styling is spot on and with a new header and a few minor mods, that boxer rumble comes out and sounds beastly. I am VERY glad it has a Subaru heart. An inline 4 would just make it sound like all the other modded Civics, Cobalts, Coups, etc. This boxer gives it much more personality, in my humblest of opinions.

Did you do the math to arrive at this conclusion or is it a guess? I'll help you get started: a 4G63 is ~275 lbs.

And define noticeable. Noticeable to your ass or noticeable in lap times?

http://media.subaru.com/newsrelease....27s-10&mid=175

Seems to be well liked last time I heard...

You may not like THIS horizontally opposed engine, but it's most likely because you don't like the power it makes, and the way it delivers that power. The engine's physical layout has very little to do with how much power it makes. A 86mm x 86mm 2.0L I4 with D4-S would likely make around the same power, but have more vibration and a higher CoG, negatively affecting rev limits, driveability, and handling. The tradeoff is that the I4 is much easier to produce and to work on than the flat engine (one cylinder head vs two, spark plugs are more accessible, don't have to split it in half to get at the crank, etc).

The only advantage an inline 4 would have over an H4 is cost to manufacture and maintain. Otherwise, the horizontally opposed engine is better in basically every respect.

I've owned I4's, both transverse and longitudinal, turbocharged and N/A, a V6, an I6, a rotary, an H4 turbo and now this H4 N/A, and for pleasure of driving, the I6 and the H4 have been the most fun, with the rotary just behind.

So you may not like the motor in our 86's, and that's fine, but it's probably not the cylinder configuration you should be complaining about.

wait - i didn't know our boxer engines were fake? omg.

Don't really need a reason to not like something do I? I absolutely hate Eggplant and I cant give you a reason for that either, just don't.

I bought the car despite the engine because I like the way the car handles. As T-coat said, so far, it serves the purpose of converting chemical energy into torque.

My feelings for the rotary are much the same. It's a neat science experiment, but not to my liking.

Given my druthers, I would prefer a V6 or L4 design. For the record, I don't like any of the flat engines be it in a Subaru or a Ferrari or a VW.

Not sure where people think I am trolling, I asked a legitimate question and expected a considered answer. I am constantly amazed by people who try to interpret insult into anything they read on a Forum.

So, my question still stands, "Would this be a better car with a non boxer engine?

LOL. You were so full of shit in the first few paragraphs that I didn't even get this far.

That's a stupid thing to say, because the car handles the way it does in part because it has a low center of gravity.

And the answer is still "no."

If you wanted an intelligent discussion, providing intelligent complaints may help.

Again, I'll help, you hate eggplant because of the way it tastes, its texture, or both. Now that we've got the neurons firing, what about the FA20 do you not like?

Ya, it would be fun to drop this in...
https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDeta...TE-MOTOR-652HP

Ok, sorta understand your point then. Funny how the handling makes up for it for you.

This car would be a better car if it came with an F20C in it, or I'd take a K20 which IMHO can take beatings all day long and make decent power

but they were engines of a different emissions era....

Yes, you do need a reason to dislike something, otherwise you are just ignorant. Do you hate eggplant because you disagree with the texture? Don't like the flavor? Think it's a pain to cook? costs too much money? Don't agree with the farming practices? There is a reason you don't like it...and if there isn't you are just ignorant. You didn't give a reason why you don't like the boxer, what about it is so bad? If not, you are just flat out trolling.

What druthers? Can you articulate any reason at all why a V6 or L4 would be a better configuration for this car, or even any car?

I don't like the boxer because it sounds like crickets permanently live under my hood. It's a very boring motor from the factory. Give it some supporting mods, rid the torque dip and you have a fun car with an over engineered chassis. Probably will end up blowing up eventually and then you can replace it with virtually whatever. Or rebuild the motor to be more durable the second time around. The best part about the car was that it was built for the owner to do whatever the hell they want.

None of those issues are specific to the boxer engine design.

I can never understand this statement.
How is an engine "boring"? A boring car I get but just the engine? If they put a different 200hp engine in there would it be exciting?

Sometimes I wonder if people buy these cars and don't ever actually "drive" them. I autocross on a regular basis with a stock "real" engine and have a fucking blast EVERY TIME.

Boxer engines do not make that sound. If your engine is making that sound, you need to drive it off a bridge.

Wait... we had a Boxter engine this entire time??? Never knew 265HP felt so slow.

-alex

I think people drive them and bitch and whine about them because they really want straight line power and have no idea what to do with a balanced sports car. These people should be driving Mustangs.

First, some of you chill & thanks for some of you for keeping it calm.

Back on topic.
I'm pretty sure everyone have their preference on that engine they want. It could be I4 NA like 4AG or F20C, it could be big torque VQ37 or maybe want infinite power feel like 2J or RB. Not sure what's "real" engine or what's "fake" engine, cuz I'm not engineer... but it's all comes down to how "you" can use that every bit of power for your "need" from the engine. It doesn't matter what type of engine; rotary, boxer, V, Inline, or crazy jet engine, if you cannot use the full potential of that engine to maximize your driving, that engine is just a dead weight.

I'm trying to be fair. Maybe you like the V-engine tq curve or I6 turbo feel more than FA20 and I don't see any issue with that. There are countless reason to like this car/engine... at the same time, there are countless reason to hate this car/engine. If you don't feel like this car/engine, don't waste your time and money and find the car that you like to drive, instead of reading through some trollers/fan boys.

As for me, this car and engine is working just fine. Autox for 2 years and working perfectly. Have enough power to make me smile every time I drive it.

Be careful what you wish for... you might get a bunch of FRZzzzzs on your ass.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4B4RUYn3YE"]86CUP | NCRC - Open Group Traffic - YouTube[/ame]

But...but...but...just watch that thing pull away in the straights. And it is practically an antique.

Sure:

Lets start with the most subjective bit: Don't like the looks with the hood open. Looks like someone tossed all their spare engine parts in a box.

Sounds like a constipated tractor at idle.

The underside exhaust design looks like a nightmare waiting to happen for anyone who lives in a salty winter environment. And it has no aesthetic appeal.

My understanding is that Subaru engines do not have a long life expectancy (from Subaru Mechanic of 10 years). I will let you know in 7 more. Fingers crossed.

This thing sits and "pinks" and "tinkles" with heat related noise every time you park it. I find that annoying.

There is that cricket thing, but that's not really the engine is it? But it annoys me.

Same with the torque dip, but that I have already mentioned as trivial. Just a thing.

As it gets a bit older, I have a feeling it is going to start blowing oil past the rings because of the cylinder layout.

I pretty much got my answer, you guys all like Subaru engines. Good, wont hold it against you. I did find it interesting that on a different forum the feeling was that it was a great car despite the engine.

Like I said earlier I could care less who makes an engine and as long as it works to my needs I am good with it.

Are you sure? You don't want this? :lol:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1426976963

or this?
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1382790115

Weekend toy, track machine or short run DD I would take them is a heartbeat. DD for 14 hours a week and 4,000 miles a month I will pass thanks.

Price of VQ37 Swap please?

To keep it on-topic, two thing I wanna add to your fix comment:

Cricket thing is due with DI and even BMW and other famous brands have this cricket... cuz Toyota/Subaru DI isn't fancy as other brands and our car don't have sound deadening, so you can hear it loud and clear.

Torque dip is boxer engine character. Even Porsche have torque dip. Due to 6 cylinder (instead of 4) they can hide it well, but fact is that dip is still there... but like you said, you barely notice it.

They think you're trolling because this subject has been discussed countless times before. We never seem to learn to the best way to deal with this subject is to ignore it.

Only $1/4M. If you wanna send me that check to me with your car, I got you covered LOL

btw that pic is VR38 from GTR... & it's photoshopped

EDIT:

Correction, someone already did the real deal VR38DETT swap
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1392834770