The Twins better with 5 speed box?
 

I was thinking would the frs/brz be better with a one less gear? I remember back in the day before the CVTs most subaru were 5 speed.

5 speed gear pros:
-better power band?
-quicker acceleration
-easier in traffic (manual)
cons
-less mpg


what do you guys think?

no.

Why not go hog wild and just have 3?

Allow me to elaborate:

All cars, not Subarus.

How? No.

See above.

Ok, maybe slightly, but still....... no. Because it's a manual and you should enjoy shifting if you own a manual. This isn't a big torquey V8 with long gearing and low end power.

The difference in MPG efficiency isn't really worth thinking about. The specific engine and how hard you drive the car will be much more important to your MPG.



The one actual criticism is that 5 speeds tend to be slightly stronger. The S15 6-speed vs the S13/14 5-speed debate is a good example...... but, in reality, neither will be strong enough for people making big power, so it doesn't really matter all that much.

I'd always rather have the 6 speed.

Exactly, for years we got along just fine with 3 speed MTs. The first AT in Chevrolets had only two speeds.

When I had my 06 Miata, I got along just fine with a 5 speed MT, and it had less power than the FR-S.

What I would like to see come back is the old Ford type "overdrive" ..... http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...s/driving2.gif


humfrz

Just for historical knowledge (and my learning), would 3rd gear be overdrive? Or was there no such thing back then?

power band being "better" depends on the engine tuning in conjunction with the gearing... but that said, a similar 5-speed compared to a 6-speed on a same car will most likely have taller gearing than the 6-spd, resulting in slightly slower acceleration since we dont have much power to begin with.

Slip N' Slide with Power Glide!
Hell, not just the first but clean up into the early/mid 70s.


http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-co...evrolet-17.jpg

:iono::iono:

My first mustang had a 3 speed manual, made picking a gear pretty trivial :bellyroll:

But really, I don't think you can find anyone to argue that a 5 speed gearbox would be better unless it was geared for a specific reason

Even w/ a 6 speed, I still find myself occasionally trying to shift into seventh :)

Back in the day, in most 3 speed MTs, the 3 gear was NOT overdriven ..... it was 1:1.

Some drivetrains had an "overdrove" unit that would make the ratio to the differential less than 1:1.


And, of course, we always have had the "Georgia overdrive" ....... :D


humfrz

No. The 3rd gear was just a very long gear. Some came with OD as well though.

OD was a set of gears after the transmission that could be engaged to make the driveline turn faster than the engine crank.

"Overdrive Transmission" on wikipedia has a pile of info.

An FR-S with a three-on-the-tree would interesting.

Well now, since we are going retro...... how about an electric hand shifter, like was on the old 1936 Hudson Terraplane ..... :popcorn:

Yep, my buddy had one back in HS ...... which allowed him to remove the floorboard shifter, so his GF could sit closer ..... :D

WOW - talk about a "short shifter" ...... :w00t:

Sorry about the :threadjacked:


humfrz

If said 5 speed was behind a 2JZ then yes! :D But, then again, you could direct drive a 2J and it would scream! :lol:

Petition for 7 speed FR-S 2017.

With a turbo! And 21 gears. And a unicorn with a rainbow.

What??

if you have a 5 speed you'd have a worse power band and less accel as the gearing would be longer to compensate for the missing gear and having a 5th gear OD.

Example... my of 5speed mustang hit 101 MPH on 3rd... and redline was 6K RPM. Where you need 4th in the FR-S to even reach 100.

I would like 4th gear and 12k rpm limit

Seriously ... The car would be simply amazing with a twin clutch transmission. Shifts in the high rpm range where the car likes to live.

How about this:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5225/5...0d308239_b.jpg

Or this:
http://shacman.com.my/wp-content/fil...gearbox256.jpg

I use third maybe once out of 20 times as I go up the gears. Normal pattern for me is 1-2-4-6 shift points around 5500

If you like to accelerate briskly during normal driving, and the speed-limit is like 45-50 mph, then a hard pull through 1st and 2nd up to 5500 or so drops you around 3000 rpm when you are in 4th. About where I cruise surface streets.

Truth be told, I would be just as happy if the box were 5 gears.

To those that stand-up for the 6, why not go further and have 12 if you believe that pulling the lever is some kind of a good thing?

Something like a GTI would be just fine with 5 gears since it has near full torque all the way down at 2200rpm and keep it almost up to redline - we don't even get into the powerband until we are over 4000rpm. We don't have a lot of area under our torque curve so we need a transmission that is capable of keeping the car in the pretty narrow powerband. If you wanted a grocery getter that was easy, why did you buy an FR-S? The reason we have a 6 speed is so you can keep the car in the powerband and still have a decent overdrive.

The transmission should be matched to the engine - the transmission should make the car as quick and economical as possible given the powerband with as few gears as possible. In our FR-S, that number is 6.

Oh god, I can just picture the threads now:
"New to MT and I get a weird noise and the car bounces when shifting from 4th to 15th. Any ideas?"

My '66 Nova has a 2-speed Turbo-Thrift tranny. 0-35 in first, 35-infinity in second. For an inline-6 it was real quick off the line. Around 50mph it felt like it was about to blow apart. Not a good freeway car.

I am probably not as smart as you, but if I look at this graph it shows that full torque has pretty much arrived by 2500 rpm so I don't see where you get the 4000 rpm for max torque information. I also fail to see where you get that this car has a narrow power-band; the FRS actually has a very wide power-band from 2200 to 6500.



I also am not smart enough to get your "grocery getter" comment? Can you please expand on the though?

http://www.tune86.com/sites/default/...n-frs-dyno.jpg

Uhh...you see that big ol' dip between 3200 and 4500rpm? That's why...

You got's to learn some math, its still a 133 (ish) average over the whole range. Not gonna brag about it, but it gets the job done.

I beat this car every day and fail to see where every one gets their little silk panties in a twist over the "torque dip"? You would have to be one of those princesses with the pea-pod syndromes to really notice. Seems to be lot of these around n both the owner and non-owner camps.:burnrubber:

I pretty much agree.

If it weren't for the posted dyno graphs and all the talk ....... I figure most of the average drivers wouldn't know there was a "torque dip" ..... :popcorn:


humfrz

My previous winter car, 20111 WRX hatch 5 sod with Cobb Stg 1 flash was probably *slightly* quicker off the line than same year STI due to one less gear to shift 0-60.

You eat a lot of popcorn.

, Sir.

Ya, I know ...... I've been trying to cut back..... hey, I did quit smoking it ..... http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...mages/woot.gif


humfrz

Haha... KFCannabis

Are you guys talking about that 1 second blip that may make a difference in a timed drag race?

With the Evo VIII and IX, there was concern over the 6sp transmission in the MR melting/shearing 4th gear from heavy track usage, it happened frequently enough that anything more than 10-15% more torque over stock could cause it. Some were adding oil coolers, but the guaranteed fix was to plop in the 5sp from the standard Evo because the gears were just plain fatter, and the tranny was mechanically a little more simple. Both transmissions were the same outer size, so the 6sp gears were narrower to make them fit. While it was a better tranny in every other department, it made sacrifices in strength. The 5sp was the go-to for anyone tracking the car a lot.

Apples and oranges, but in this case the 5sp was better purely for strength. In the 86, close ratio 6sp is the way to go for all the reasons mentioned already. I just wish it was designed and built a little better.

Isn't that called upshifting?