New Manual transmission drivers Q&A
 

Didn't see a thread like this while searching, so I made one!

The FR-S is my first manual car, and I've noticed it's the same for some other people on this board. Just wanted to make a thread where we can ask noobie questions to more experienced manual drivers :)

First question: Is there a difference between using the foot brake or the hand brake to assist with a hill start? I find it easier to hold the foot brake in, bring the clutch up to the friction point, then let go of the brake to prevent rolling back. Most people tell me to do it with the hand brake though. I live in Austin, which is an (unfortunately) very hilly area, which has intimidated me quite a bit with regards to learning manual.

hand brake is easier, but if your skilled enough to use the foot brake I don't see why not

I've never used the handbrake personally, though I know some people start out this way. I don't see any reason to use the handbrake if you're able to do without it.

I think using the handbrake is usually only easier for beginners since they don't have to worry about having quick footwork quite so much.

You use the hand-brake because you can also use the throttle lightly. If the hill is steep enough then you'll stall .. or panic a bit and either slip it hard or spin the tires.

I mean .. if you are experienced enough you can get by using the foot brake but it's unnecessary extra effort.

Good idea for a thread. I've been learning this past week myself with my own FR-S and the times where I've stalled it, it was because I was panicing trying to get going on a hill.

I personally prefer the hand brake method on steep hills. But after my week of owning the FR-S, I'm pretty good and almost never need it now.

This is what I do in order of how I do it. I'll assume you're sitting on the hill with the car running.

1. Step on the clutch and put the car into first gear. You can hold the car on the hill by either using the foot brake or hand brake at this point.
2. While holding the button down on the hand brake, keep the hand brake in the up position. This will let you get off the foot brake while still being able to use your left foot on the clutch. Keep in mind the car should be in 1st gear by now or the car will roll backwards.
3. While holding the car on the hill, start building RPMS by giving the car a little gas. When I'm at about 2k-3k rpms, I start to let the clutch out while still holding the hand brake. The car starts to squat in the rear end when the clutch engauges so when that happens, simply push the handbrake down and you'll start moving.

I do this all the time when on a steep hill and it never even moves backwards at all. The trick is to start with the car in gear and wait for it to squat down. When it does, just release the hand brake and your off.

Thats how I've been doing it anyway. The only issue i've had was when I forgot to put it in gear. :bonk:

bneale

You're going to cut the clutch's life short revving to 2k+ and engaging.

Another question: what's the proper way to start out smoothly (on flat ground)? Do you let out the clutch until you hit the friction point, THEN add gas, or do you add a slight bit of gas, then let out the clutch?

You'll figure it out. Once you get used to it you'll learn to give it the right amount of gas at the exact moment that it starts to engage. But short answer, don't wait until it starts to engage and then give it gas. Learn to time it so that the revs are starting to climb right as the clutch starts to engage.

I am learning stick as well. I'm doing fairly well at this point, I can comfortably start on hills, downshift when appropriate and so forth. But my difficulty is getting from first to second smoothly. It always seems slow and a little rough, that's when traffic goes past me lol. I have been learning on a civic and this past weekend on a yaris with no tach.

I take it you haven't driven in San Francisco? :D

I agree though, you shouldn't need it unless the hill is so steep that you just can't react fast enough. Either that or you are worried about the car behind you. Now that so many people grow up on autos and have never driven a manual, a lot of people end up stopping far to close to cars on hills.

In first gear of course. Simultaneously slip the clutch a little until on the gas, off the brake on the gas. The steeper the hill the more gas you need to keep from stalling or rolling back. Usually you don't need anything more than a normal driving RPM.


The manual transmission actually takes a split second of time in neutral to synchronize the gears so you really just can not ram the shifter from gear to gear especially when cold. Shifting slowly allows time but fast shifting requires a simultaneous technique.


A manual car requires doing things together all at once for the fastest smoothest shifts, not one, two, three, 4, 5 then 6 ; clutch down, off the gas, shift to neutral, shift into next gear, clutch up, then gas.
You can clutch down, shift to neutral, and off the gas to rev match as best as possible at the same time; shift to next gear when clutch pedal hits the floor, clutch up, then gas.

More or less like that. You can work on your own technique as you gain more experience.

Please don't take offense to this because as males (which I'm just guessing you are) we get really defensive when someone says something like this to us but...

This is very wrong! You should absolutely NOT be revving the car to 2-3k while getting going. In fact, if you advocate this, there's no point in using the handbrake at ALL. The reason you use the handbrake on a hill is so you can avoid revving this high. Your RPMs should stay the same as if you were getting going from flat ground. Revving that high is something I would expect from someone inexperienced with the clutch while NOT using any brakes.

Like I said, don't take offense, I just wanna get this out so you as well as others don't do this. We gotta have our 86's last right?? :happy0180:

What I used to do was keep it in neutral an let off the break a little when people are pulling up. This will scare/warn them enough to stay back because I'm driving stick.

I think I used the handbreak method only once. But that's because I'm stubborn and just wanted to use my feet.

I learned how to drive manual for the most part in an SUV, which had no hand brake. Only a foot e-brake. So I was forced to learn to just be quick. It's pretty easy once you get used to releasing the brake and gasing clutching very quickly. I never understood why people always roll back at lights or on hills. If you learn to clutch and gas smoothly you shouldn't roll back at all, or atleast most even half of an inch.

I wish I lived somewhere with people as smart as where you live. I swear EVERY time I ever did this the best outcome that ever resulted was the person not creeping UP closer to me. Stopped doing that a year or so after starting to drive a standard.

People here ARE stupid. They just like driving cars that aren't fucked up and need new nose jobs.

It's weird trying to teach someone how to drive manual after years of doing it. I'm trying to teach my wife, so I can give her my Versa and stop constantly fixing her POS 96 Sentra, and it's difficult to relay what I want her to do. After only buying MT cars since I was first taught on one it's just like breathing now. I don't even have to really think of it to do it properly.

The answer to every new manual transmission operator's question: sidestep the clutch. ;)

Actually I have! There was one hill in SF than I had to use the handbrake on, but for the most part even there it wasn't necessary.

There are a couple of hills I'm pretty sure I would be halfway down the second my foot is off the break :) Given my reaction time at any rate... (well, that and my inability to operate the break and gas at the same time...)

Though I have noticed that the FRS is much more friendly than some of the cars I've driven. It seems like a great car to learn on.

You don't use the handbrake or try to transition quickly. The OP has the proper method.

Foot on brake. Clutch out until you feel it grab but not stall. Foot off brake. The car will not move now, at all. Not in SF or anywhere else. I've done this offroad on hills where all I could see was sky.

Now you add gas while letting the clutch out to move the car.

The whole transition takes but a moment and will not wear on the clutch. The handbrake is overly complicated and trying to rev, clutch out, and let go of the brake all at once makes for a jerky start and some clutch wear.

Hm... it shouldn't be jerky... using the handbreak should be very smooth. Let out the clutch slowly while applying a little gas until the car start to pull slightly, release handbreak, and start as normal. If anything, I'd think it would be hard on the handbreak...

I've driven manuals for 13 years, but I'm really appreciating all the different comments and techniques mentioned (here and elsewhere). I feel like I've gotten a bit lazy in recent years and have picked up some bad habits along the way... especially driving alone in the car. There is nothing like a passenger to highlight how smooth your shifting isn't.

Badly blended sentence. I meant the way people take their foot off the brake, begin to roll backward, lay on the gas and then try to catch the car with the clutch. That part is jerky.

The handbrake just seems like an unnecessary step to me.

Just revv it up and dump it everywhere and especially entering a corner and get some sideways action..... That needs to be a new commercial... like honda's "super tail action", scion/subaru needs a "super sideways action!"

Another question: How do you properly slow down to make a turn? Let's say I'm getting to a left turn light at ~50mph or so while I'm in 5th gear. I want to make the turn in 3rd gear? How can i accomplish this smoothly? It is bad to let out the clutch slowly while I'm braking and shifting from 5th to 3rd?

You want to rev match, the absolute smoothest way is to heel toe. But if you're a noob and don't want to learn that (many people refuse) you brake, then rev match (blipping the throttle) and downshift.

San Francisco hills scare the crap out of me. Even when I'm in an automatic.

Normal driving situations you can leave it in 5th and brake to the proper speed for your turn then downshift to 3rd before the turn. If that felt smooth, no problems.

If you're going to take that turn at a high rpm in 3rd, a high speed for the gear, you'll have to rev match for a smooth shift.

While in 5 @ 50mph: floor the clutch and nail the gas once then into 3 and let go of the clutch, all while maintaining proper rpms. The engine will slow you down some and apply brakes as needed.

Once you get very good at that you can try heel-toeing without being overly rough.

When I first read about rev matching, it confused me to no end. It's not something I'd ever been taught. I didn't get what was meant by "blip the throttle" (nail the gas above) or what people meant by the proper rpms. I'd learned to drive stick primarily by feel and almost never paid attention to the tachometer until the FRS (where you almost have no choice :) )

Eventually I ran across the following post and suddenly things made much more sense...
http://forums.evolutionm.net/2967353-post8.html

I think the key sentence for me was "You want to blip the throttle enough to bring the RPMs up to where they would be in the lower gear at the current speed." Which is mostly a matter of trial and error and knowing your car.

i have muscle memory from my mazdaspeed3 still. the clutch was much firmer with longer travel and the gas was less sensitive. i find myself over reving a lot on take off in the brz. stalled twice in two days so far...dont think i stalled my last car twice in two years haha

Question. If I'm engine braking in 2nd gear, around what RPM should I step on the clutch? 2000 RPM? 1500 RPM? 1000 RPM?

I believe im going to need a new clutch sooner rather then later unfortunately... When at a stop light (no hill) with this clutch it seems its either chirp the tires or slip the clutch. What rpms do most of you shoot for on a initial start. Also is starting the car in second gear a bad thing? I seem to catch the cluch better with it in second rather then first. I dont even make it threw the intersection without having to shift, when i start in first. When I first learned stick, it was on a super old car that you had to literally push the gas as soon as you started to take the clutch off the ground. I only know one person who drives manual on the regular, so this is pretty much my place to ask stupid questions. Ive killed the car maybe one time a day, for the last 4 days. Twice yesterday, due to i was in 3rd and thought it was in 1st. Im the noob from hell on this thing its been 10 years since i was behind the wheel of a manual. I am however seem to be picking up the catch point a bit better day by day but hope it dont mess up the tranny to bad.

Questions: When should I downshift if driving up hill?

I do alot of highway driving and it consists of many hills. If I'm taking the hills at roughly 80-100kms an hour, do I need to shift out of 5th (3000rpm)? Or can I stay at 3000? What is too "low"?

Thanks

You should be able to do hills at that speed in 6th without much trouble...it should be loading the engine about 50% or something at most (calculated this a long time ago for some rather steep % grade) which is totally fine, and this saves you a little bit of gas too. If it feels gutless and that bothers you, 5th should really be adequate too.

I find it interesting of all the people's described methods in print.

I guess my best advice is trial and error. Living and driving in the mountains, I have never used my hand brake when at a stop going uphill, or actually for anything unless the vehicle is parked.

Driving a manual is all about getting a feel for it, and manuals are different for each vehicle (in terms of timing, travel etc..). I learned a manual by throwing myself at the wolves (driving in mountains, city traffic, etc...). Two weeks and many stalls later, I got a good hang on driving stick.

Ya as the days pass its getting better n better

Are you still having this problem?

Starting in second is a bad idea, yes. Don't look at the tach when starting out, in fact never look at it. You'll get used to the sound and feel of the car, judge by how smoothly your shifts are, how the car feels.

In a parking lot try getting the car moving with no gas at all and do it a few times, this exercise will help with the clutch. After that it's all practise.

Don't be afraid to rev higher in 1st when going, I wouldn't say redline it off the light every start but you should be able to hit a decent speed and shift to 2nd no problem.

If you're having problems finding the right gear when shifting let the stick center before shifting. Imagine you're in 2nd gear and need to shift to 3rd, pop the stick out of 2nd and let the stick center, now you know you're in the middle of 3rd and 4th. Push up.

Same thing for downshift, if you're having a problem going from 5th to 2nd, say slowing down and shifting for a corner. Let the stick center, now it's left and down and you won't hit 4th by mistake.

Time in the car. No radio fpr a while. Try to improve every shift you make, make a game of it. You'll never stop getting better and even your boring drives in traffic will become something useful.

And don't worry about your clutch. Unless dealt some serious abuse modern clutches last a long time.

Or math.

When I first started driving stick, I had a friend in the car with me who "managed" the hand brake so I could concentrate on getting my footing correct. This helped me immensely (my friend also drove stick, so he was also coaching me through it at the same time). I would say practice on flat ground to get a good feel of the clutch and exactly when it grabs (if you haven't already). This will also help out with your hill starts.

I think some people do that to say "look at me, I drive stick"...because I notice it too, they'll roll back like 2 feet.