Should Toyota's version of the FT-86 be badged a Toyota or Scion in North America?
 

let's get to the bottom of this already...

no i don't care option because if you don't care you can buy the subie version... lol

Toyota because I'm one of those crazy people who still thinks it should be called a Celica...but that's a whole different poll

Scion screams "cost-cutting" to me, in all the wrong places for the FT-86. The AE86 was a Toyota, and if that was truly the inspiration, they should keep the Toyota badge. Scion has some pretty cool colors, but if they decide to brand it as such I'd be very hesitant to pay anywhere near $25k for it.

Isn't that obvious? LMAO...

thats all need to be said. Toyota all the way anything else is (besides subie version) straight up BITCHASSNESS.

***Puts on overalls, gloves, boots and mask and waits for the shit storm to begin***

@Mata: you have some condom? I need a protection.

Someone voted Scion already! I almost did but we only need 1 vote to continue this poo contest. I'm certainly not going to being doing the trolling.

no poo so far!:thumbsup:

Look at the ratio, Poor little Scion.

I'm with you on the Toyota Celica FT-86

Yup^ works for me

Toyota please!

I also think the Scion TC should be the corolla coupe sport model (think Civic SI) and the Matrix a Corolla wagon. Let the Scion brand burn.

^^^agreed

Okay, time to confess, I have the lone scion vote. I don't really see a downside to it being under scion badging. Still the same people designing and still the same level of craftsmanship. I personally like the amount of factory options and aftermarket variety that the scion badging would give me. It would be nice to be able to pick and choose the things that are in my car. Also, all of the exterior badging will be removed anyways so it doesn't really make much else of a difference to me in that regard.

Im sure within a few posts you'll understand.

Clearly I am outnumbered, looks like my scion xb will be alone forever LoL

The down side is a lack of legacy. If Scion ends up failing which it has a strong chance of doing, there is no telling if it is worth it to Toyota North America to transfer the FT-86 brand to Toyota. If it is marketed as a Toyota, despite sales numbers it will attract people to the lot for them to sell boring Corollas and Camrys.

This is why companies have sports cars up front.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAF1TtnuhbA

There is something to this. Look at the poor Solstice/Sky. Decent sports car, but it died with the brands that carried it.

I have a new found position on this now.

I say BOTH.

Create the Toyota version with a Boxer STI motor with the claimed 300hp or whatever. But if they create a Scion version with a Toyota 4banger in it, priced it lower....that will be the one I will buy. If they shove the newer 2ar into it (180hp/173tq), I would drool and then boost it and it would be sex for me every time I stepped foot in it. Because all I would need would be 8lbs of boost and I would be making 300 at the wheels.

So, if there was a Both option, I would have selected that. But there is not.



I have a tC obviously.

I'm going to bump this, because I'm getting really nervous.

Apologies ahead of time for the coming rant...

Many of you know my loving embrace of the Scion brand (that sarcasm, for those that missed my previous anti-Scion spazzes...) but I'm losing faith in corporate decision-making abilities.

This is obviously pure, negative speculation, but I've been negative everywhere lately...

This is coming from the completely non-sensical decisions being made by my work's corporate. Logic isn't the factor sometimes, and ego and pride can drive things in utterly the wrong direction. And when that happens more often than not the failure is just cut loose, and hands are washed instead of being repaired.

I'm terrified that a type of argument/power-struggle is taking place within Toyota North America regarding what to do with Scion. And a 'revitalize Scion' camp is the louder more stubborn side, but ultimately not seeing the future reality. (Bye-bye, Toyota's Saturn...)

What my waking nightmare foresees is this:

In the US and Canada, there is only the Scion fRS. (Wait it gets worse.) And its only motor is the new (standard, low-revving, 170 hp) FB25 that will be shared throughout the Subaru line. This is done for cost considerations, and to leech a bit of publicity from the drifting version (see below). 2.5L Boxer motor just like the Formula D one! (but not really...)

It will be spammed throughout the industry, given to shops, to build versions (and cred') of it, like they did with Scion's initial launch. This will be where the EJ257 rumours are originating from, as the companies will not have enough time to build the brand new motor. So to impress the jaded North American market with huge HP numbers, they will instead swap in a known quantity with the old turbo EJ.

And the North American market will be given the options that they give with the tC: Deal with the utilitarium, ho-hum, motor (torquey and easy to drive) and be happy that it looks the same as Tanner Foust's EJ257-powered racing drift machine. Or go Dragonitti's route and DIY. Throwing more money at what was promised to be an 'economical' sports car. Yes it will eventually be an Epic car with enough mods, Scion or not. But that wasn't supposed to be the point.

Meanwhile, as I suffer a stroke or aneurysm over this horrible news, the stake through my heart will be looking at the 'World' market car, with its 2.0L Yamaha/D4-s rev happy 200+ HP NA motor, deemed too 'peaky' for the North American market. Thanks again Toyota! (232 HP 6500 rpm 7MGTE North America, vs 280 HP 7000 rpm Yamaha-tuned 1JZGTE not North America.)

Yeah, it's another rant against Scion. But I don't know why, but I feel like it has a good chance of turning out this way. At least without the question of 'What is Subaru doing with their version?' answered.

I'm going stir crazy waiting... When's the Geneva show?

Oh it gets worse. When the FR-S sales numbers fail to impress, the reality sets in that Scion will be scrapped, the FT-86 will be considered a failure and will not receive further production in North America.

Yeah, that was what my 'Toyota's Saturn' comment was about...

while i think the scion rumors are true as well, i really hope they don't dumb down the engine just to give it a scion-esque price tag. i mean, i don't mind that they have a low power engine standard as long as the high performance engine is available as an option, but giving the rest of the world the high performance engine while giving the north american market a torquey low rev motor would be a disaster. why would you need that much torque in a lightweight car?

Honestly, I don't care if the stock motor is detuned for the US to save money so long as we get the exact same JDM 2.0l flat-4 engine. Worse case scenario we can order the performance parts from the Land of the Rising Sun but hopefully the high output engine is offered or at least can be special ordered. Then at least we wouldn't be stuck with a torquey sedan engine wishing we could have ordered one with the true engine.

I really want the boxer :wub::.

Economically the same upcoming motor that will be in the Legacy, Impreza, and Forester (the 2.5L 170hp version) would make the most sense. As would it for the 'Suzy Secretary' drivers that will be buying this car for looks. Toyota went this way already when it went away from the 2ZZGE in favour of the 2AZFE in the XRS Matrix and Corolla.

There's an old saying that people buy horsepower but drive torque. A torquey 170 HP in a reasonably light car will 'feel' like a rocket to a lot of people. But it won't 'be' as much of a rocket when driven harder than most (the commuting masses) drivers do.

Nor will it scream beautiful music. :(

The commuting masses also generally equate larger numbers with better engines. If they go for mass market appeal (which they will need if they want to 'revitalize' Scion), the FB25 is the logical choice. And the numbers will look good when cross-shopping a Miata or something.

And marketing/sales types will not like the idea of having to sell a smaller 2.0L as an upgrade to a 2.5L to the North American market. Europe and Japan seem to have no problem understanding the difference between a small performance motor and a larger utilitarian motor.

Like I mentioned earlier, I've just been in a pessimistic mood lately. Hopefully this is just ridiculous on my part...

Lexus...

LOL! Can you imagine a Lexus FRS-F?! :bow:

Well, if nothing else, people can stop their speculating/whining/bitching.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....a-ft-86-ii.jpg

Well this is the Euro version not North America.

Hopefull NA Toyota will not be that dumb to let Subaru steal the sales.

Why is autoblog like a year behind?

can i trust this app?

I thought the same.

REQUEST PERSONAL INFO?

I think not. :l

I wouldn't from someone with 1 post....

he didnt make up petitionspot, i signed shit there numerous times :p

There is no way I plan to buy this car as a scion. Scion stands for cheap girly cars. NOT performance cars! I can take its at a Toyota (even though I'm not a big fan of Toyota). But not as a scion....