New Manual FRS owner
 

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the board and I must say, this is a great board with a tremendous amount of information. I always find myself back here when I have a question.

I just picked up my raven FR-S last Friday and I'm still trying to get acclimated to driving a manual. I've driven many manuals before (albeit 15-20 years ago) and most recently my girlfriend's GTI. I had very little issues with shifting in that car.

So my issues are as follows. First gear seems to be very notchy even at a dead stop. I don't shift into first except in that scenario. Also, I am obviously doing something wrong as I cannot for the life of me shift smoothly in the lower gears. I've tried letting the clutch all the way out (quickly and slowly) without gas, rolling on the gas as I clutch out and actually giving it a little gas as I clutch out. It always gives me a nice jolt. Nothing seems to work. I have gotten it smooth a few times but there isn't any consistency. Does anyone have any ideas of what could be going on? Thanks!

Most people on the forum will agree that the gear box is definitely notchy and clunky. Usually when my downshifts aren't smooth, it's because I didn't rev match and the lower is will require the synchros to really up the RPM. If you try to always be downshifting when the rpm is around 1000 I've found I can down shift smooth consistently. However, if I try to downshift when RPM is over 1500(without rev matching) it'll feel very clunky and like everything is working harder than it should have to.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I'm still working on the downshifting as well but I have never had as many issues upshifting smoothly in any manual I've driven. I'm sure it will get better with time but as you know it can get quite frustrating. Especially in a new car.

Speaking of downshifting, I'm working on that as well. My current technique when approaching a turn is to brake and ride the gear I'm in, usually sixth, until around idle and then quickly get off the break downshift into the appropriate gear and then accelerate through the corner. This can be tough depending on my speed. I know that heel-toeing and shifting into a lower gear earlier would be best but I'm not there yet.

Most? There was a poll that suggests otherwise.

1 and 2 take a little loving until warmed up, to be sure. What finally worked for me going into second was holding speed in first for a couple seconds (painful!) before shifting. Given my neighborhood, no issues with that, but sometimes it can be annoying to the impatient behind...

I've not had issues shifting into first after coming to a complete stop and letting it rest a second or two.

It's nothing like the previous cars I've had (though the first one I'm pretty sure I had a bent shifter fork after a plumbing van decided I was his brakes... I was stopped and resting my hand on the shifter...)

Once warmed up, it's really smooth shifting for me.

Learning what engine speed is needed in any given gear for road speed is half the battle and that takes time, whether you watch the tach or try by ear (what I do) - I'm hoping it'll be easier for me once I finish installing my header + header-back, since it WILL be louder.

TBH I never stopped shifting whenever it needed it, usually during any speed scrub so everything is ready to go on exit. Definitely tuned by AutoX years ago, and it's all coming together again already in this car.

I think the whole system is less sloppy than many I've driven (or less forgiving?) which can make it tough if you're not used to that. Some of the manuals I've driven were amazingly vague, but always felt smooth. This one is not remotely vague, but...

C

I chalk up the notchy gearbox to Subaru; Toyota's in my experience are smooth. Like mentioned, it's better when it's warmed up and will get easier with more miles on the car. I think the stock clutch is grabby, but may provide headroom for more power.

There's good info already offered above in this thread.

Since you live in VA where winter temps can get low, the following thread is required reading to head-off your post that you are bound to make about November 15th of this year entitled "What's wrong with 2nd Gear?".

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31929

Check my post #117 on the last page here:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=31929&page=6

It might save you a lot of grief.

My FRS is now 7 months old with about 6k miles on it. The tranny just keeps getting smoother.
Good luck!

OctaneFRS
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Drives: 2015 FR-S Automatic Ultramarine
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I don't understand :iono:

Damn it I am slipping!
Change in plans?

'sup?

haha clearly you are not as bored at work as I am

Most people who buy this car don't realize that ultimately, we have a Toyota Tacoma transmission. Whether we want to call it a TL70 or an RA62, it's still the same crappy manual RA60 transmission box found in the Toyota Tacoma.



Yes, We have a truck transmissions in our cars. As does the manual Lexus IS250 with a few "tweaks".


They "started" with a J160 which would of been great, it is a far more logical basis for the so-called Toyobaru coupe’s manual, having graced not only Toyota Altezza and 1st-generation Lexus IS 200 manual models, but such legendary sports cars as the Honda S2000, Mazda RX-8, 2nd-gen (NB) Mazda MX-5 Miata and the final S15 Nissan Silvia Spec-R.,


Instead they took a ra60, they replaced about 80% of the internals and ended up with what we call the "TL70".. shitty "modified" truck transmission..

I find this transmission to be very smooth and in no way clunky.
Driving technique goes a long way.

I agree, and even more so with MTEC springs and Gear 300. The springs are really nice in making shifts intuitive.

These transmissions are quite good from toyota, not crappy at all IMHO.

WELCOME, OctaneFRS .......... :)

The clutch/transmission just takes some getten used to..........:popcorn:


humfrz

I picked mine up Wednesday and have had the same issues getting used to it, but I do think it really does take just that - getting used to it. A friend of mine who has been modifying and tuning 20+ years and driving a MT for 26+ told me this clutch is just a little "jackrabbit-y" and that a little jolt isn't a big deal, even if it's not the way I'm used to driving. I've been taking it super slow starting in first, barely touching the gas and letting the clutch out just enough to feel the engage point. Frustrating at first to be starting so slowly, but with practice, I've gotten better quickly. After a few hundred miles, I'm happy with my shifting in low gears.


Also, re: turning, he told me to brake as much as I need to ahead of the turn, shift into the appropriate gear, clutch out, and then accelerate out of the curve. That's working really well and seems to give me much more control.


On an end note, to make those of us who have struggled a bit feel better - the day I test drove it, the salesman said he wanted to drive it to a separate lot first and then would let me drive (ok...?). He proceeded to stall it three times before saying "Screw it. You drive. But I CAN drive a manual!!"


Sure... whatever, man. :lol:


Enjoy!

Haha, I forgot to change my profile. I actually bought an automatic and returned it for the manual a couple days later. Even with the issues, I am so glad I did. The car has a totally different feel and the TRD exhaust has much less drone than the automatic as well.

So... I drove my girlfriend's '02 GTI last night and you could almost dump the clutch after changing gears with no jolt. Like some have pointed out, I think it's a breaking in or wear thing. That being said, my girlfriend jumped in the FR-S and drove it like an automatic :bonk:. Obviously it was something that I was doing wrong that was making the shifts worse. With her help, I think I have pinpointed the issue. This is what I now do when shifting. As I select the gear and release the clutch, I stop at the friction point and slowly left off while barely giving it gas. I'm not sure why slipping the clutch is necessary in all gears (except 5-6) but it does make for a much much smoother ride.

Awesome info! Thanks!

It's definitely not cold now in VA...it's going to be 100 today...:thumbdown:

haha ok got ya.

Yeah this car is def a little twitchy when it comes to getting it smooth. I've been driving manual everyday for 12 years now and I have to really pay attention to get shift perfectly smooth in this thing. My other car has a 6 puck clutch with a heavy duty pressure plate and its easier to drive smoothly than my FRS.

Haven't tried it but it gets rave reviews:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77390

Just a note - consider doing the clutch engagement mod. It can make the bite more intuitive because it is very high on stock.

Also rev matching in this car is great because of the throttle response. I find that the hardest shifts for me are when I'm going slow, because then heel-toe technique becomes a delicate affair. Slip up a bit and your passenger ends up in the dashboard :D

And yes, I do try and heel-toe even when going crap slow. Feeling any type of jolt from the clutch no matter how small makes me feel lazy lol.

Thanks! Looks interesting. After driving a bit longer last night, I like this clutch wayyyyy more than my last car. So much more responsive and I think I've gotten the hang of it for the most part. Woo hoo! :thumbup:

I agree, I meant to say crappy choice of application. The Tacoma Transmission is in fact really good....... for a truck.

IME every car's transmission is a little different and requires a little practice to become proficient with it. Maybe you should get your girlfriend to give you some pointers? Sounds like she figured it out as quickly as I did ;)

I have a 2002 GTI and a 2013 FRS and the difference between the transmissions is tremendous. The FRS transmission is FAR superior. Everyone always talked about the rubbery shifter on the VW and I never really understood what they were talking about because I was used to it because it was the only car I drove.
But after I got the FRS it was clear what the fuss was all about. The throw on the shifter and on the clutch on the VW are twice the distance of the Toyota. And there is no positive engagement like on the Toyota. Anybody who says their transmission is notchy or grinds or has any other problems should have it checked out.
My FRS came with a defective transmission when I bought it. It would grind into and out of fifth gear every time. And first gear would clunk into gear. Had it replaced under warranty and now it's smooth as butter.

I love this tranny. Once I got to understand the cold weather quirk, I've been totally enjoying it.

It's def not a slush-box. I need to pay attention and be deliberate, but for me it pays off.

I know exactly what you are talking about. Everything in the GTI seems loose and sloppy which is what I was used to unfortunately. The GTI is also very forgiving. I definitely agree with you that the FRS is much tighter/superior.

My dad jumped in it last night and he drives a fully built 73 vette and a 03 Z06 so he's very familiar with driving manual. He loved the FRS and only had rave reviews. He said the instantaneous throttle response took a minute of getting used to but he had no trouble at all. I guess I suck, lol. I'm sure it will take a little time but it's still very fun.:party0030:

I agree that the actual transmission our cars feels great. One of the best shifting transmissions I've ever felt. Very accurate, feel no need for a short shifter, has that nice notchy feeling with that satisfying metallic clank sound when you switch gears.

But the clutch pedal on this car feels like a toy. Then again, I am used to a much stiffer clutch pedal...

My dad did mention that too. He was like "wow, this clutch goes to the floor with no resistance at all".

I experienced a similar scenario with my salesman. Said he has been driving MT all his life and his DD is a MT 240sx. He couldn't put the car in reverse, stalled twice, and kept going into first (almost drove through the building window). Being a girl, I didn't want to embarrass him so I asked my husband to remind him to lift the lockout to get into reverse. :happyanim:

My brave husband taught me how to drive a MT car in his '05 tC. Compared to the tC (which is much for forgiving), the FRS can be a bit finicky in comparison. It takes time, but once you get accustomed to the clutch grab and can make use of rev matching when downshifting, the smile on your face will erase all the frustrations of the early days of ownership on your MT FRS. Welcome to the community OP!:party0030:

Yeah, they're are two springs connected to the pedal that make it feel so "soft". A lot of people have taken the springs out and said its makes it feel like a "normal" clutch pedal.

I've thought about doing it but I am too lazy lol.

The ratio between first and second is pretty damn big, if you pause for just a few milliseconds after your shift to second before letting off the clutch quickly to let the RPM drop to rev-match, it'll be much more smooth (If you're too slow, stay on the gas longer or shift faster!). 2nd to 3rd I pause about half as long and above third the ratios get closer and you don't have to pause.

I'm going to try that. A lot of people have said that I am shifting too slowly. I pulled a couple of flawless shifts last night and today by shifting quickly without much hesitation in releasing the clutch. That 1st to 2nd is what gets me still though.

I really appreciate everyone's help. I've been on a lot of auto enthusiast boards prior and this board seems to be, by far, the most helpful.

Yeah, people love these cars and just want to talk about them all day. Well, except my wife, she's not too fond of it at all. Great throttle response combined with a truck transmission in an 2700 lb car makes for a jerky ride if you're used to driving auto, like her. Mines at 15k but I still have rough shifts from time to time.

at least im not the only lazy mofo out there

We shall have a non lazy day and take care of all the crap on our cars that we need to lol

At least she doesn't have a CVT like my wife does! Get her driving your MT and she will appreciate when you shift decently. You can shift slowly as long as you use the gas to offset how far the RPMs drop between shifts.

Practice shifting by yourself at high RPMs where differences in revs are going to be much more noticeable and when your wife is in the car shift at 2500rpm and it'll be much smoother (if your wife is like most of hte other people's spouses here, shifting above 2500rpm without getting in trouble isn't even an option!)

Timing is everything! You'll likely have the muscle memory down in a week or two if you used to drive MT even if you haven't done it in a long time - just getting the timing down with the 86 will fix all the problems.

If you hammer on it and take up to 7k before shifting, you will know for sure whether you are too slow or too fast when the wheels lock. If the tach quickly drops a few hundred RPM, you were too quick or didn't get off the gas fast enough and need to pause before letting off the clutch or practice getting off the gas more quickly.

If the RPMs rise when you do this, you were too slow. Either keep practicing to get faster, or just hold on the gas a fraction of a second longer to ensure you will be rev-matched when you are off the clutch.

This just made me laugh out loud, literally! As a wife, who is an FRS owner and car enthusiast, I hope that the gents of this forum take the time to include your gals on your twin. Maybe she doesn't know much about cars and doesn't want to feel embarrassed about it. Start with something simple that you can explain and maybe she will learn to appreciate the car and your car hobbies. Give her a little heads up, be it a sly smile or a "hold on to something" the next time you push your baby above 2500 rpm and maybe she won't be so shocked.

As for myself, I love seeing the "What just happened?" look in my rear view mirror on ocassion when I decided to shift above 2500rpm. My husband is pretty in sync with how I drive (as I am with him too), he can almost pin point when I'm gonna push my FRS WOT. :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong - I taught my wife to drive MT on my FR-S, complete with diagrams of how an MT works, and even though she isn't comfortable enough yet to hammer on it, she does love stepping on it in her own car - when she is driving. While I haven't been here too long, it seems quite a few of the other married guys are in a similar situation - there is absolutely no playing racecar with the wife...

If I step on it in any car, regardless of warning, I am at the very least getting a dirty look and some grump for the next few minutes. She even understands the intricacies of a heel-toe shift and can appreciate it in the abstract, but if I do one and she hears the blip while I am on the brakes...."What was the point of doing that? Can't you just turn like a normal person, like you taught me how to do?"

In short, she knows just enough about cars to know the purpose of any mods I want to do (and promptly shut them down) and understands enough about performance driving to get me in trouble if she is a passenger...:bellyroll:

I applaud you for your efforts. Growing up I was a daddy's girl, I did whatever my dad did. He fixes appliances for a living but is a self taught car mechanic. So I guess not too many girls grew up that way, turning wrenches with their old man and still to this day. He marvels over the engine of the FRS; whenever I'm tinkering with the car he always finds a reason to lend a hand.

Perhaps one day all the gents with wives who don't quite understand the need to blip the rev limiter every once in a while can at least appreciate the love you have for your hobbie and car. Just got to find a way to meet in the middle and still be happy! :cool: