What *CAN* you negotiate at Scion?
 

Well, after switching camps for a few months and only considering the BRZ for the nicer interior and ability to haggle, my love for Hot Lava (don't hate, T-Coat!) and a decent-looking price now has me driving two hours to look at a new 2015 FR-S next Monday.

I'm aware of Pure Price, and while I still feel it's a crock of poo, I'm willing to do it to get the car I truly do want.

After doing some research on my Accent, I see they go for ~11,500 usd to ~12,900 usd on the used retail market, so I'm hoping to do good on trade.

Another thing is I have good credit, and hope I can deal on buy rate as I plan on going 72 months thus wont be able to take advantage of the 0.9 rate.

Aside from trade and financing, what other things are negotiable since price itself is not an option?

From the pics on the dealers site and speaking with them, it seems to be a fairly stock car all around.

Thanks for the feedback, as using the search field didn't yield the responses I was seeking.

FWIW, Hot Lava is the least produced color (Toyota exclusive) and some dealers seem to have trouble getting them. When they do have, they usually know it's going to sell.

If you can get them to losen up see if they can throw in some accessory from the parts department for free.

As far as financing, if they offer a good rate through Toyota Financial do not be afraid to take it. They have been wonderful to work with and they give you online account access. The customer service is fantastic through them.

Air fresheners
and
free coffee.

Now give us pictures of your DeLorean. :)

I thought Pure Price was just for new cars. It's used cars too?

:bonk:

No.

I purchased a 2013 FR-S (certified Toyota pre-owned) a little over a month ago from a Toyota/Scion dealership and got them to come off the price by about $1000. They don't like to do it, but you can wear them down.

The only things you can negotiate on is the price of your trade in and interest rate. The higher your trade in...the lower you pay for the car.

That's about it...

I saw him talking about used car prices, but missed that he was talking about the trade in on his Accent.

From what I understand of Pure Pricing, what it actually means is that the dealer must sell the car to you at the price displayed (whatever that may be) with no hidden costs. This doesn't necessarily mean that the price displayed has to be MSRP. I managed to snag my 2015 Ultramarine for $1200 less.

I've negotiated the price of my Whiteout Monogram down by a few thousand. It's doable.

Wow haven't had to throw this up here in a while:


PURE PRICE - A DEFINITION

Scion Pure Price means the price you see in the dealership, on the dealership's website, or other dealer advertising locations is the price you pay. This applies to the vehicle, accessories, finance rates and insurance products. With Scion Pure Price, you know the price you will pay and you don't have to spend your time negotiating.
WHY USE PURE PRICE?

Our customers told us they want a shorter, simpler process with less pressure - and we listened. With Scion Pure Price, you don't have to negotiate price - or wait for someone to "crunch the numbers."
MSRP VS. DEALER'S PRICE

MSRP is theManufacturer's Suggested Retail Price that appears on Scion.com. The price that is shown on your dealer's website, which may or may not be the same as MSRP, is the price you'll pay for your new Scion. Pure Process is a completely transparent pricing system to help save you the time you would otherwise spend negotiating for a "deal."


You can also bargain for any add ons you may want. I got about $4K worth of stuff for free. Not to mention almost double what my trade in was worth.


The demand for Lava is very regional from what I have seen. Some areas they are hot (pun intended) but in others they just sit on the lot. My dealer was very glad to get rid of mine as it had sat in the showroom for months and the 15s were on their way. Around here everybody wanted the white or black.

This is what I did!

Yeah they sit over here as well. My brothers was on the lot for almost a year before he picked it up. It was selling for a great price ($17k with 15k miles) and came with TSW nurburgring rims, lowering springs, AEM CAI, and a Dezod exhaust.

"Pure Price" wasn't even on the table when I negotiated my deal - not even mentioned. I paid well below invoice and a couple of extras were already installed that didn't affect the price. Must be a matter of region, dealer, or time of year - I bought in late November, and I bought off the lot.

Maybe it was b/c after test driving I set my price point before the salesperson even got around to talking about money, and I made it clear that I was totally happy not making a purchase if that price didn't make sense for them. I was on my way to a Subie dealer up the street to test drive a BRZ as well. They made it so that I stayed right there. I wasn't interested in "beating" the Dealer, I just didn't have to buy a car that day, and they didn't need to agree to my price point.

The result was a great price for my trade (I set that price too) and a $23.9k price tag on a new FRS w/extras (before taxes). Again, no Pure Price in sight.

It was a wonderful, and quick deal, where we both felt great about the transaction.

From what I was told by a Scion employee, all Scion dealers are supposed to adhere to the pure price policy. Some may choose not to, but if they get caught, there are repercussions, up to the loss of their franchise license to sell Scions.



Don't know if it's true. That's just what he told me.

Well if you bought a '14 and there were '15's on the lot, they'd be more likely to make a deal to move the '14's

Negotiate free maintenance for 2 years and get the Hot Lava

This.

I have a friend who happened to do a stint as a Toyota/Scion GM and this is exactly what he told me. Apparently they do regular audits, and if they catch a markdown like this - they will get punished rather severely by Scion.

Will some dealers take the risk? Sure.

However, they can still mark down the price! How? They simply have to mark down every other car of that model on their lot by the same exact amount.

I would say that you can negotiate, even at a dealership with Pure Pricing.

In April, the dealer I bought my Halo from (a Pure Pricing dealer) told me that he could sell to me at any price. The only requirement was that before he could sell the car to me, he'd have to advertise the price first. So if I wanted the Ultramarine that another dealership (non-Pure Pricing dealer) had, he could get it for me from the other dealer and match their quote. I would end up paying less because his doc fee was lower.

In the end, I bought the Halo. I didn't even bother to negotiate because the advertised price was already heavily discounted compared to all the other dealerships in the area. Maybe that was Pure Pricing working as advertised or maybe not. *shrug* On the flip side, a month later when I wanted to buy a Prius for my wife from the same dealership, I played hard ball because I knew that Prius prices have been dropping lately and their initial quotes to me weren't any good.

Additional note: That dealer wasn't a big fan of Pure Pricing. From what I remember, the explanation I got was that if a buyer's comparison shopping online and sees comparable prices between a Scion and a non-Scion car in the same class, that buyer knows he or she can still negotiate the non-Scion down even further. The buyer's not going to waste time with the Scion dealer, even though the dealer is probably still willing to negotiate. His thinking is that Toyota's going to have to make changes to Pure Pricing. We'll see if that really happens.

Pure Price is b.s. To be honest.

The best thing to do would be to say something like "If you loosen up on the price a little, you guys will earn my business today."

You can then threaten them by saying you could get a BRZ or go to another dealership as long as you tell them these keywords:

Earn, business, & today.

No matter if a Scion has pure pricing or not, it still has an Invoice price & an MSRP so that's why pure pricing is BS. A good dealership with good rep will probably help you out especially since FR-S's love to sit on lots.

What happened to the good old days where you could wrangle the prices down? This whole set price shit is getting old! >:(

Unless it's changed, that would be an easy win since you get 2 years of scheduled service free already - or is that your point?

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...EIYASU9lJfaWGQ

Your trade in value is where you can make up any difference you wanted taken off of the price of the car. Also, the BS "dealer fee" can be removed, although very few dealerships will do that. However, that was the one concession I was able to win when purchasing mine.

After I had the sales guy in the car I bet him the gas was on the right, and he told me all Toyotas were on the left.
He got my first gas fillup.

OP, I'd do the math on 0.9 vs. what interest rate you'd get at 72 months. Even at Tier 1+ (720+ FICO) you're looking at >5% through TMFS, and much more interest over the life of the loan. You may want to stretch for the slightly higher payment on the five year loan and save yourself some trouble down the road (and having year six being car payments while it's out of powertrain warranty).

Also: Hot Lava? Excellent choice.

Pure Pricing may seem like BS, but it's Scion's rules. I work for a dealership and as the designated "Scion Ambassador," I know how strict Scion is. What some people on here say is true. A dealership can and will lose the right to sell Scions.

Granted, there are ways to "manipulate" it at the dealership side, but it's to the dealership's decision, which may either end up as loss just to get it off their lot or Scion gave them extra incentives to mark the price down. Either way, more likely than not, they're adhering to Pure Pricing.

No amounts of scaring or threatening will make a dealership really bend over backwards. Sure, they want your business, but not at the cost of their right to sell the product.

I've had a customer call and ask me questions about the twins under the sun, but kept going back to price. I asked him if he knew about the Scion process and Pure Pricing. He claimed he didn't, so I explained, then he asked again if we would move on the price at all. At that point, I told him it'd be best he go to scion.com to read/watch the info I gave him, but no, we wouldn't move on the price because our right to sell Scion would be on the line. His response was then, "Okay, then I'm not interested in buying an FR-S. I'll just go get a BRZ." I didn't bat an eye and my response was straight forward and simple. "Okay."

As much as I can understand people wanting to get a good deal, I can't help but laugh when someone thinks they're special and will get that deal that no one else gets. Unfortunately, none of us, including myself, is special enough to get that deal that no one gets. If you get that deal, more than likely you're not the first and you certainly won't be the last. But that's only possible through Toyotas, Lexus, Subaru, Honda, Mazda, Ford, Chevy, but not Scion. With Scion, you have to think of it this way; Think of where you work. Now, imagine someone coming in and coming up with whatever reason as to why they think they deserve a "better deal" (aka lower price than indicated set price, sale or regular), barring things like coupons, rebates, senior, military discounts and the like, of your product or service. Unless there was some kind of problem, your company more than likely would say no, and if someone in the company does say yes, they're assuming responsibility for the loss and the possible heat from above. But, when it comes down to it, a lost sale is worth it in exchange for keeping the right to sell Scion. The FR-S is not the only model offered through Scion, so losing the right to Scion can lead to a hundred thousand to million dollar loss. Are you going to pay the dealership if that happens just to appease you? Doubtful. You'd probably just make like a bandit and run. Probably even say something like, "Then they shouldn't have sold me that car at that price." That's why dealerships more often than not won't feel regret about losing your sale.

But is it impossible to get a Scion at bellow MSRP or even invoice? Of course not. As others have indicated, dealerships usually mark prices down on a year to several years older vehicles that's been sitting on their lot. There are also the rare occasion that certain ones can be marked down lesser than the rest due to a loophole in Scion's rules. You just have to keep an eye out for it. There are other times that the dealership, itself, would accidentally fudge the numbers somewhere along the line and doesn't catch it, saving you some money.

I happen to be lucky and had been looking in the right dealership at the right time for both of those to happen. Mind you, even as an employee, because there is very little margin for Scions, I'm beholden to Pure Price. Not only was I able to purchase my RS1.0 for $1,000 less than MSRP, but a screwup in paying for shipping it up here saved me another $600. With those combined, I ended up getting my 86 for below invoice. So, you never know.

As for your trade-in, just because "clean retail" says what it's going to be for sale by the retail doesn't necessarily mean you'll get close to that amount. More than likely than not, you'll get it closer to $5,000 less than clean retail. Why? Because they have to factor multiple things. There's the reconditioning. No matter how clean it is, it's not dealership clean. That hundreds of dollars that detailers charge to do the best detail job possible? Dealerships pay it too, even if it's internally. Then there's the fact that it'll go through the shop, have all fluids checked, brakes, etc to ensure that it doesn't break down on the next buyer so easily. Then there's the buyer. Just because they'll have it priced at clean retail doesn't mean the buyer will try to get the "best deal" just like the rest of us. So, $1,000 to $2,000 off later of haggling, what kind of profit do you think the dealership made off of your trade-in? Probably somewhere around $1,000, more or less. Couple that with the around $1,000 profit form the FR-S they sold you, that's around a $2,000 profit. Now, factor in that the sales people, finance people and sales managers (the gas you get for free and the detailers that hopefully wash and detail your new car, and any other additional costs, such as removing any scratches and what-not) involved for each sale wasn't paid in this yet. So the overall profit can range between less than $0 to around $1,000. But just like any other business, dealerships are not in business to lose money, so they hope to gain some profit somewhere. (Also, if you're going to tell me that I didn't factor in holdback... Well, because there isn't any with Scions. Look it up if you think I'm lying.)

I negotiated the BeSpoke audio in mine to be free.

Told them I wanted a car without it, they didnt have one, I said I'm not going to pay for the upgrade, the agreed to reduce price of car by amount BeSpoke cost.

I told them I didn't want the TRD exhaust, drop in, lowering springs, tint, clear bra and spoiler but was no deal if not Lava. Since they didn't have another Lava I got most of it for free (and paid pennies on the dollar for what I didn't).

Check out costco auto and skip the dealership BS. They sell cars at Invoice prices. See if any dealership will match whatever Costco will sell the car for. TBH, I doubt they can or will.

The Scion Pure Pricing isn't as concrete as they like to pretend. When I bought my FR-S, I got them to come down from $25.5k to $24k. I think the timing has a lot to do with how flexible they will be. I got mine when the 2014's were coming in and they were trying to get rid of the 2013 stock.

I got exhaust and bespoke as main discounts. Paid about $450 for those two items according to their kbb price. $10k down payment helped though...and car had sat for few months.

Just shop around. I went through more than 10 dealers.

@Tcoat got a few bucks knocked off for minor hailstone damage.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...1718034_03.jpg

Btw bro, do not trade in vehicle!!!

Sell to private seller, get more! I got $4.5k for a rust bucket vs $1000 at dealer. Sniff sniff

Pure pricing seems like it would be fair if the dealers actually put it @ MSRP/a fair price. All dealers have a bit of mark up on their vehicles and thats where haggling comes in

EXACTLY!!!

I sold cars for 7 years, two at a one-price store for new Hyundais.

Every car's price was clearly marked with a tag hanging from the mirror, and was always invoice minus rebates. No doc, simply tax and title. Being a true one-price store also meant there was zero negotiating room for trades, so the number presented was always actual cash value based on the market between Black Book, Kelley and Manheim.

We would lose folks on trade because they wanted to see more for it, but no one could touch our pricing on new cars, and never did.

THAT is true "pure pricing", not allowing dealers to set their own price and then say "K, it is what it is, take it or leave it"

I think Saturn proved singular pricing on new cars doesn't work, and it won't until the entire industry shifts and/or cuts out dealerships - like Tesla is attempting.

LOL pure pricing, I remember that when I tried to buy a monogram FRS and they wanted 32G for it, and I got mad and told them their friend across the street has a better deal for me (Subaru) and BAM got the BRZ 26,500