How to not execute a point-by at the track...
 

Here's a simple 3-step process to not let someone pass you at the track.

1. Have the slower car (my slow ZC6) catch you in a passing zone.
2. Point them by.
3. Accelerate.

Please don't be like this guy at the track.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdIE-LAbDLk"]How to not to a "Point-By" at the track... - YouTube[/ame]

-alex

You're not the only one. He did that to everyone all day. I let the staff know about his pointing by issues on the 4th session. If this is the same M3 on the point by group.

Edit - I just checked my videos. Same exact behavior.

FF to 1:30

[ame]http://youtu.be/C_-RSyHdnXc[/ame]

I owned a miata for 8ish years, welcome to my life.

There's always one or two that don't quite get it. I was in the open group and found that people were really paying attention and letting people by without much trouble. There were only two cars in my group that didn't really "help" the passes happen, but they were both slow enough that even my stock 86 could get by after a corner or three. One was the red Starion (or whatever the Starion twin was) and the other was the green spec Miata. Everyone else was great. I tried to let people by without making them wait as well, since I was basically average in the group.

I've had idiots do this as well at the track. Accomplishes nothing as either:

1) I'm on their bumper the rest of the way after the straight, or
2) I'm forced to dive-bomb them into the next corner when they realize they needed to lift and give a second (late) point-by

Even when I give a point-by to a high HP car (Z06, M3, etc.), I find that if I don't lift, it takes longer than expected.

And this is why "M3 drivers have no friends!" - Jeremy Clarkson

I didn't have a problem. ;)

At least there is point by's on track... indoor karting is not so fun with teen/tweenagers who have no clue what the 'let faster driver pass' flag is apparently and are over 2 seconds a lap slower....

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqq1KoD1iQ8"]Pole Position indoor karting... - YouTube[/ame]

It's not always any better in open passing / no point by groups. Here is a parade at Sebring running behind an Infiniti Q50 ???? Lucky for me he took a wide path into T16

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORPaLTqBNwo"]5-2-15 NASA First Drive of weekend and my HPDE 4 Checkout - YouTube[/ame]

hahaha I guess it happens at car track days the same as in bike ones. We always see the guys on the liter bikes go WOT on the straights, so you can not pass them and then they throw out the anchor when the turn comes up... very frustrating when you are on a middle weight bike. Most of the time you end up having to stuff them in the turn to get by...

Do what this guy did....wait it out ;)

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V82k5kvmsf8"]Getting a point-by from a Porsche Turbo, the hard way - YouTube[/ame]

Was that the Novice group?

from the same session at 86 Cup Round 6 - Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca.

Bad vs Good point-by.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QAn0DiOUes"]Bad point-by vs good point-by - MRLS 23 May 2015 - YouTube[/ame]

Well while we're sharing videos of bad points, here's an AS Camaro that refused to point my Neon by....and then a good chase of a 911 Turbo that drove his ass off to avoid having to give a point....to a Neon.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG2gNR-2L1M"]The Banana First Track Day 2012 Sean Grogan - YouTube[/ame]

Haha, not 8 years, but I tracked a stock engine 1.6 numerous times.


Same when I had my R6, I don't know why it's such an ego issue for people to give the point-by, or if they really are that oblivious.

Laughed when I saw the black flag :party0030:

Ahhh the joys of open track days... I used to start at the back of the pack and then give myself a big gap in order to get a couple decent laps in, when I get too close I'd slow down again for a lap and go again, of course this works best at the larger tracks that don't get a lot of lapped traffic... What really sucks is it only seems to get worse the higher class you get into up until the top couple of classes, then it's not quite as bad... High Intermediate always seemed to be the worst though, I'd rather be with the beginners.

You have to use a PowerPoint so the M3 drivers will know what you're on about.

I love how you "reached out" to the Vette during that straight....

I have the same problem as the OP, in all of my cars, including the M3.

I would always be the first to grid to give myself maximum open track in front of me.


The last track day I did, I continually started last because a buddy and me were sharing the car for the day, so I didn't have a choice. And typically this group was going out in the same order.


Every session I caught the next two guys before the end of the first lap...........1.8 mile 10 turn track........in a 1.6 Miata.


Always be first to grid unless you're slow.

Oh hey, that's me in front of the red S2k and finally getting past the Q50 on the inside of 15. That session was combined with time trial practice and I was trying to get through traffic lol.

Please tell me that wasn't an advanced group....

It was. I have no idea why he moved to the outside but I took it since he opened it wide. Advanced group etiquette is not to surrender the line though, he should have taken his corner on the correct line and simply let me pass on the straight by lifting.

Beginners are taught to hold their line. True advanced drivers in a hot lapping session will be predictable, and do whatever it takes to make an easier pass.

If I'm cooling down, I will be watching my mirrors and adjusting my own pace to make sure I am off-line anytime someone needs to fly by me, or pick up my pace to not be in their way, until I can facilitate a pass.


It's similar to how beginners are taught that smooth is fast, but experienced drivers are anything but when driving at qualifying pace.

Or how beginners are taught two feet in...

Even if I'm being passed a 500+hp car I still coast to give them more time, especially if the passing zone is small.

Don't think so 😉 but our cars do look alike!

But what you get after the first lap is still an unknown.

My last session at Laguna Seca on Saturday was like this:

- first one on pit lane, first one out on track
- by the time I start my first flying lap, I already am running into late stragglers coming onto the track
- for about 2-3 laps, I constantly ran 2-3 seconds faster than my previous PB (1:52.xxx) thru turn 5 of Laguna Seca, only to run into traffic at the top of 7 or after the Corkscrew (Rainy Curve is NOT a place to pass on a flying lap if you are on the outside of the turn w/ street tires). Could've had a sub-1:49 pace if I had a clean lap.

All in all, at the end of the day I just tell all my friends the same thing: who gives a shit what lap times you put down? If you can leave a track day with a grin on your face, you've become King for a day.

-alex

That's a fair point. I guess in my case, they limit on track sessions to 20 cars, so in a Miata with R-comps on a track you know well?


I basically came out of the pits at 9.5/10ths and would generally get 2-3 clean laps, then the stragglers at the back were typically easy to get around.


Don't have any of my old time sheets anymore, but usually only 1 lap out of a 7-8 lap session would I really get held up, and very rarely pull into the hot pits to get some space from someone being a jacka**.

I'd honestly always prefer they hold their line because if there's anyone in the advanced group practicing race situation passing, it kind of defeats the purpose. That's why NASA has 2 advanced groups. One for advanced HPDE folks who want to pass without point bys, and one for racers and time trialers to practice. The two differences between those groups really should be pace and etiquette. No one in HPDE-4 should be making room to pass on the inside like that. That's HPDE-3 stuff.

I think it is because of the big white number panel. How does your number panel look? And yeah, it's hard to tell since we both have bronze wheels lol. Do you have TOM's tail lights as well? I forget.

I feel like many of the Spec Miata drivers around here are famous for this on the straights. Why give up the line if you are just going to drag race me to the next corner??

I kept singing "Baby, come back" in my head lol

Lol wasn't expecting that then saw the snap oversteer and was like alright I guess he'll let him by now

I had several instances where I was waiting a long time for a point by at the last event I went to. NASA HPDE > SCCA PDX. The PDX seemed super disorganized, and very lax on all the typical rules and etiquette. If it wasn't so inexpensive, I'm not sure I'd do one again. I'll have to try and put together a video of the bad point bys lol.

This is what I've always been taught as well.


Hold your line, it's up to the passing driver to make a clean, safe pass. If you're expecting someone to stay on-line and you're going to go around them and then they go and change it last second (which I've had happen before) it can get really dicey, very quickly.

That's what we teach up here too. Car being passed holds their line, car passing goes inside (based on the next corner).

Eh this is why I just pit in then you get the whole track to yourself :)

:rofl: I'm slow...

Ahh.. I wish I was the one complaining about bad point by's at laguna seca..


Its on the bucket list!