question on SPC LCAs
 

I just installed these over the weekend and i tightened the camber bolts (uniting the knuckle and control arm) to 55ft/lbs according to this SPC's specs via this PDF:

http://www.spcalignment.com/instruct...60-INS_WEB.pdf

however after driving on it a few days, it feels like the rear end is very wobbly and very unstable. Especially noticeable when i go over the smaller bumps like the light reflectors, the rear shakes slightly horizontally. instead of just up and down on the shock/spring.

After looking under the car again today, the camber bolts i felt after torquing it 55ft/lbs and after i set the desired camber angle (eyeballing it), i could still tighten a few more turns by hand easily with some crescent wrenches. So i dont think this 55ft/lb from SPC's specs is tight enough.

i want to note that torquing it is nearly impossible for me with the wheels on and the jack raising the tire up, effectively putting weight on the suspension basically. AND without using a lift or an alignment rack. (which i dont have obviously)

All other bolts on the LCA (subframe and strut 59 ft/lbs and sway bar 28ft/lbs) are tightened to factory specs.

Was this like this for everyone else who has the SPC LCAs?

I wonder if your rear toe is out of whack? I thought I read a bit of toe-in helps with stability.

its very likely my toe going inwards on the rear wheels depending on my eye. I am due for an alignment but im waiting for my wheels/tires to come in to do the whole alignment once installed.

I have not heard good things about SPC... keep us updated

I have nothing bad to say about mine and personally know others with it (2nd gen). I don't track, but have done plenty of autoX and mountain runs. I have never had to do any adjustments for the 2 years they have been installed. Let's not turn this into an "SPC is shit" thread please.

You can't really question vehicle dynamics until you have had the car aligned. Toe WILL easily make you wobble.

You need an alignment plain and simple. The rear is all over the place now because your camber and toe are most likely out of whack. . .definitely toe if the rear is all over the place. Mine was the same way after I installed them. Once I got an alignment, the car has been on rails.

As for SPC quality, I know the version 1 arms had some issues, but the version 2 arms are basically the stock arms, but with an eccentric bolt on the hub attachment point for camber adjustment. I've had mine since the V2 arms came out and haven't had any issues.

Source needed, running SPC here and had a blast at an HPDE less than 2 weeks ago. I wasn't nice to my suspension those 2 days and it held like a champ :D

Lots of people use those on the track without any issues.

same thing here. installed mine 2 weeks ago and the car instantly felt weird in the back. got an alignment and my toe was super out of whack. once they finished my alignment it felt better than ever

Camber changes affect toe (and you can't eyeball it acurate enough), so unless you put the SPC arms to exactly the same length as the stock arms, and no other changes like a drop, your toe will be off along with the camber. I measured the length of the stock arms and set the SPC's to that when I installed mine with my springs so I knew I would have a drivable starting point. Went directly to get an aligment after that. No issues with them moving in the two months I have had them.

Most of the bad stuff spread around about these arms is from old information about the scary looking first version that wasn't even made for specifically for our cars.

What everyone said above....check your toe

My previous alignment sheet showed a hilarious 2.20 degrees toe out on the right side after the arm install and camber adjust

I also have had no issues with my LCA's and they've been on for close to a year now. I did get an alignment 2 days after they were installed though, I wouldn't trust an eyeball alignment.

Any time you mess with suspension components, you must get an alignment. You're not going to be able to 'eyeball it' to any sort of accuracy. Get it aligned, then ask questions if it still feels funny.

48,000 miles on my SPC's no issues so far. It is your toe alignment.

Get a proper alignment first! You're most likely having issues from everything being way out of spec.

As for the torque spec, if things aren't shifting (you'd see evidence of this), then the torque spec is fine.

1) it's your toe settings, not the arm.
2) if you are ever worried about bolt movement, mark the rear camber washer against the arm so you have a point to measure against. just because you can torque the bolt more doesn't mean that something is actually moving. Like this:
http://beergarage.com/imgs/Suby/Camber/04.jpg
3) see #1.
4) get an alignment before passing judgment.

-alex

Keep in mind just how small the toe measurements are too. I have 0 front toe, and 1/16" total rear toe in (not per side). There's no way you can eyeball 1/32" per side, even 1/8" per side would be hard to eyeball.

well im not claiming to say i adjusted toe and its aligned. In fact i hadnt even touched toe but i just know its out of spec.

judging on the comments here, im guessing everyone had their alignment guy torque or tighten the Camber bolt on the SPC Arm. No one did it themselves?

I'm sure everyone tightened everything down after it was installed. Unfortunately it's hard to eyeball a lot of the adjustments. You will be feeling better after the alignment :)

I torqued all the bolts to spec myself and got an alignment. These SPC arms work just fine and don't make a lot of noise.

Just because the wheel looks straight doesn't mean it's aligned. I guarantee your alignment is way off, most likely on toe.

Did you not read my comment?

Just because you can tighten it more doesn't mean it is not tightened properly.

If you must know, I tightened mine perfectly fine. Never used a torque wrench.

After alignment and several track events, the bolt has yet to move. Marking is unmoved also.

-alex

Edit: here's your original post:

I hope you realize that torque spec is a function of the material of the bolt and the size of it. See this for some overview info:
https://www.imperialsupplies.com/pdf...rqueCharts.pdf

We at AZP have installed no less than 50 of these SPC arms. Mostly on street driven (Really bumpy NJ and NYC Streets) as well as our own Project BRZ street/track car as well as our Spec86 Cup wheel to wheel race car.

We have also aligned these cars as well. None of our own nor any customer cars have come back due to any handling or bolt losing issues. All alignments were done on our Hunter Hawkeye Elite Aligner.

I would say our sample size is probably larger than most. The key is proper installment and setup of your suspension before jumping to the conclusion that the parts are bad.

-mike

i installed mine this weekend and had an alignment done. I was told that I still have too much toe with just the arms and i need to find another adjustment alternative.

can anyone chime in on this? I have rs-r super downs with -1.3" in the rear. it seems to me that there should be enough factory toe adjustment to compensate for it. i really dont want to buy toe arms or use the offset bushings.

That is really strange. You are only dropped on springs and only have -1.3 camber and they can't align the toe within spec? I don't mean to be rude, but i think you may need to find another alignment shop.

The SPC control arms come with new toe bushings with a bigger adjustment range, just for that very reason...

As for if there's enough adjustment or not, it all depends on how much camber was dialed out, not the final camber.

im sorry, i should have clarified i am -1.3 inches lower in the rear.

no worries, 1.3 inches in the rear shouldn't be a problem. The alignment shop should be able to adjust accordingly. @wparsons had good input as well.

"by hand with crescent wrenches" is not "by hand".

/throws down mic

I'M OUT

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/ea/ea76...f7bc9bd90a.jpg
:)

You can try to zero it out all you want, but if you've run out of adjustment you have two options:

1) find more toe adjustment
2) run less camber

-alex

right, but what im asking is whether or not the tech's statement is in-line with other spc arm user's experiences. ive been led to believe that at my current ride height, i should have been able to hit factory rear alignment specs with only rear control arms.

You mean more camber? You typically run out of toe adjustment removing camber faster than adding it.

All depends how much camber you dialed out with the arms. A 1.3" drop probably put you at about -2.3* from the drop, if you dialed that back to about -1* I'm not shocked at all that you ran out of toe adjustment range.

I did not install the included toe bushings. I am on Sportlines (-1.4" all around). I am running -1 in the rear. My toe was not an issue.

your experience seems to be on par with others that i have read. i decided to bite the bullet and purchase spc toe arms. i had some amazon points left over so it ended up being the best solution to my problem. i felt that using the offset bushing would be too much of an issue when/if i sell the car.

i should have them installed and my toe corrected in a few days.

As I will soon install the SPC LCAs too and potentially could face the same issue, I am curious why you think it's an issue to use the SPC bushing?

Thanks

(I know it's an old thread, but if you are still there)

About the original post. No issues setting my SPCs and no issues with slipping even after hitting lots of potholes and dirt road silliness.

If the next owner doesn't know about it and they want more camber then it'll be an issue since they won't be able to get the toe properly set.

It's also pretty annoying to have to swap out a pressed in bushing. :iono:

The way I understood the SPC bushing was changing the adjustment range? Like if you are at the end of (or out of) the adjustment range with the stock arm, that you can bring it back to center so to speak. Is that a wrong interpretation?


Most people who lower and don't install LCA at all, don't have toe issues with stock arm and bushing. They usually come out with about -2 deg camber.

Is it correct to assume the problem is more likely to occur if you try to stand the wheel back up to e.g. -1 deg?


My desired rear camber adjustment range would be around -1.7 to -2.3 deg (with corresponding increase in front camber as well). Am I likely to face problems with that?


I have to install the Whiteline Roll center correction ball joints anyway too. So I'll need a solution to that anyway. Yes, it's the part I presume could present the most hassle.

That's the correct interpretation. The toe bushing is only included for if you run out of adjustment range. Which generally only happens if you try to stand the rear camber up to -1 like stock.

I went to -1.9 in the rear, toe adjustment is slightly off center as expected. Absolutely no issues with a performance alignment. I also tried to stand the rear camber up to -1.0 and I maxed out the toe adjustment correcting, so I can see how people have run into issues with getting factory tame street alignment.

Sounds good. :)

How much camber do you run the front, -2.5? -2.7?

I'm at -2.6 but I'm on snow tires so I can't comment on the effectiveness. :) I do have a LOT more front grip than before though, it doesn't just understeer relentlessly.