pass referee in cali for loud exhaust...
 

Well so I had my appt today with the carb ref to get my ticket for too loud exhaust covered.

So I get there and since it's raining I have to wait for the rain to let up before they can do it.

While we're waiting the ref asks me if it's a stock exhaust. I said no, I have a cat back. So he pops the hood and verifies that's all I have, then looks at the mufflers and says he can't pass it, cause it has bolts holding in the baffles.

So since they're removable, he can't test it. So I ask if he can test it with the baffles removed and he says yes.

So to make a not so long story a bit shorter, it passed (barely) with the baffles removed and now I have my cert that I can show a cop if they pull me over again.

The ref even commented in the comments section on the certification that the test passed with the baffles removed.

So I'm stoked about that.

Jaden

What exhaust do you have?

Bet your neighbors aren't, though.

a spec d n1 copy...
 

a spec d copy of the n1.

Jaden

wtf is wrong with california? holy crap.

Hmmm... where should we start?

Glad im not there, first plenty of frs/brz and now you cant modified cars

Seriously.


First thing I did after driving off the dealership lot was slap on a cat back. I guess I won't take my living conditions in Texas for granted.

The same law(s) exists in almost every state, the only question is whether there is a sound limit or not.

Texas has a similar version of what California has, except it does not have a specific sound decible limit.

California law is actually pretty flexible in that it allows you to modify the exhaust as long as it complies with the sound limit. For a long time, the state BAR ran a program that allowed exhausts to be shown "in compliance" with the law. This also allowed you to have documentation ready to prove to an officer the exhaust is okay.

For OP, this is actually a great thing... if the car is ever pulled over in the future for an exhaust violation, it's basically a free pass.

But it's okay, easier to hate on California than understand what goes on in your own state.

-alex

I'm fairly certain I've never had to go to a "referee" to have my mods inspected. Pretty sure Texas cops won't pop my hood and look to see what I've done. Also pretty sure I can use whatever FI kit I want without having to worry about CARB certification. Also fairly certain my car can't be impounded for having "unapproved" mods.

Edit: oh yeah, no random roadside smog checks, either.

Fairly certain, or 100% certain?

Cops enforce laws at their discretion. If they deemed you to have done an illegal mod (for sake of being an ass, for example), the ticket is legally binding for you to prove your guilt or innocence.

The state BAR referee is simply a way for vehicle code violations to be inspected or verified. Some states call it an "annual inspection". Other states like Texas leave it completely up to the judge and officer to determine what is "excessively loud"

Every state has their pros and cons.

As for the comments about roadside smog and vehicle impounded:

1) I've gotten two "ref" tickets before, around 2003. The legal part of this is that you can drive your car after you have had a ref ticket, but if you currently have an outstanding ref ticket that is not resolved and you get another ticket, your car will be impounded. This is about the same as you getting a ticket for not having vehicle insurance, and then you get another ticket while the original ticket is unresolved. It's an administrative matter.
2) roadside smog is only an issue for people with poorly tuned cars.

-alex

LA

http://cires.colorado.edu/files/1113/8150/6776/LA.jpg

actually that's only partially true...
 

The referee told me that an officer can still write a citation for it even if I show him the paper, and I would have to get it refereed again or pay the fine...

So yes, Comuufornia still sucks balls.

Jaden

Texas has BY FAR the weakest laws concerning vehicle safety or at the very least they go completely unenforced. No roadside smog tests in Texas. The "inspection" here is a joke; not one vehicle that I have ever taken in has failed for any reason. Not even for wiper blades. Even though I maintain my vehicles carefully, I would have expected to encounter at least one or two items not up to snuff over the years. Cleary, the inspectors aren't making much of an effort to find problems.

Even if there are laws on the books concerning noise abatement, they go completely unenforced, except in some cities and these are local ordinances not state. Hell, we're about to go to a "system" where one sticker is used for both the tag AND the inspection.

You will have a much better chance of being shot in a gunfight here than of being pulled over for an inspection sticker or noise violation once our current legislative session is over.

Nah, there are some states (midwest, plains area, and FL) that don't require an inspection at all.

Also, I just noticed that california doesn't seem to require an annual safety inspection, just emissions. That's surprising.

I won't ever pop my hood for an officer...
 

Just like consenting to a vehicle search. I won't ever do it. If they arrest me I will sue them for wrongful imprisonment and I will take it all the way to the supreme court. That's not a joke. I take my liberty seriously.

I will never submit to an illegal search and seizure...

Jaden

did the ref tell you what the decible ratings ended up at for your exhaust? and how much was it for the inspection test, is it still around $110?

yep...
 

It's aactually on the certificate they give you. They gave me a certificate for my records and put a sticker showing it passed on the back of the ticket.

Mine was 95.0 on one the exhaust ports and 94.8 on the other without the baffles...

Jaden

Yes, but honestly that'll be between you and the officer. Show reasonable and verified documentation that you fixed your problem and more often than not they will let you pass.

Again, going with my insurance example earlier: if the officer wants to write a ticket based on reasonable suspicion, they have every right to as they are enforcing the law. But you can simply show up in court the next day and provide proof to have it written off.

-alex

That's right...
 

I don't expect any officer to write me up for it once I show them the certificate.

It really wasn't that loud unless you're revving to redline and there's NO WAY that the one who wrote me up initially had reasonable suspicion just based on what he witnessed.

HE was just being a ****.

Jaden

Cat backs are legal in Ca. also and plenty of people have them. Removing working cats is against federal law.


We have no annual inspection and smog is every other year. For vehicles made after a certain year (I don't recall which) it doesn't even get smogged for the first 5 or maybe 6 years. I usually go to AAA the last week the reg is valid, pay my fee, get the sticker, and put it on the car.

It's really not as terrible as people make it out to be and LA air no longer has to be chewed first.

You are saying what I'm saying:

Some are just like that, power-tripping. Can be anywhere in this country, but my point still stands:

Having the exhaust sound tested is better than having no testing done at all. Helps your argument out a lot.

-alex

All new cars are exempt from smog for the first two cycles (2/4 years) after initial sale date.

The only exception to this is if you bought a car from out of state. CA law requires you to smog it when you first bring it in, even if it was within the 6-year exemption period. This is essentially an outdated vehicle code that is really no longer applicable, but it is not fixed because no one really cares about it.

-alex

The point people are trying to make is that you will get hassled a lot more in California for vehicle mods.


I've never been questioned regarding the legality of any vehicle mods on any of my cars. I don't think many can say that on the west coast.

I have had 1 ref ticket in my entire 20+ year driving/modding history.
I got it only because my exhaust at the time was missing the silencer, which I lost. Without the silencer I would've given myself a ticket, it was annoyingly loud.

I have no issues with driving a modded car in California as I took time to understand how the law works and what my mods impact my rights.

-alex

Oh look, there's still smog in LA...

2008: https://www.flickr.com/photos/moondoggie71/2603458118

2011: https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8032/8...c9ff3a07_b.jpg

I'm sure I could find ever more recent ones, but why? Your assertion that there's no smog now with that one silly comparison picture that comes up as nearly the first image with a Google search of "California smog" is at best farcical.

Did I say there was none at all? One of the most concentrated car areas in the world, of course there still is smog.
How bad would it be now without the regulations though?

I love around the same area as the OP :/
I have a full header back exhaust with a Vortech SC on E85 with tomei headers and an N1 with a strong scent of alcohol from the exhaust.
What's the quietest exhaust on the market? Lol

Which one is it? :bonk:

Stock lol.

If you must know:

I got 1 ticket in May 2004. I got the exact same ticket the week after (even before I had a chance to get the case documented in court and get my bail info in the mail).

When I informed the officer that I already got a ref ticket, the officer ignored the first ticket and wrote me up for a different vehicle code, which was 27156(f):
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...le=27150-27159
At the end of the day, I got 1 ref ticket (dismissed after parts were put back to stock) and the second ticket was thrown out since the first ticket wasn't even registered in the system yet and I understood my rights.

-alex

I don't think anyone is saying there's none, but I've been to LA many times in the past 45 years. It's definitely less noticeable now. Keep in mind that the visible part of smog is only part of the story. My eyes and nose don't burn when going there now.

Anyway, I have no problem if people hate this state. We have enough residents and tourists already.

FYI - I looked up the new car smog exemption for Ca:

A gas-powered vehicle is excused from Smog Check until it is seven model-years old.

So my '13 FR-S won't get a check until 2020.

You see that is just straight up bullshit.
 

a cop is not a judge and jury, that law is invalid. You have to have your day in court, we are supposed to be considered innocent until proven guilty.

Just because a cop CLAIMS that your exhaust is inadequate is not a valid reason to force you to change it at all until it is proven that your exhaust is inadequate, there's another thing I would fight all the way to the grave.

AS was proven in my case. My exhaust was proven by the bar to be adequate, the cop was WRONG...

The idea that a ticket can be written and then before you even get your day in court to be proven to be guilty, you can be cited for not changing what may have not even been a violation in the first place is ridiculous.

I'm getting incensed now at some of the things I'm reading.

The ref that tested my car brought it to redline and left it there for several seconds to even get the car to read as loud as it did, something I almost never do.

Jaden

Just like how I was written up for a "loud" exhaust even though I was pulled over in traffic....

Uh, you do realize how the law works right?

I'm not going to type a long reply out but in the case of traffic tickets and vehicle code violations, it's just a citation for you to do one of 3 things: 1) fix it, 2) prove your innocence, 3) pay the fine.

Did you even read what I wrote? No one is forcing you to change anything, the law is just saying "If you are suspected of modifying emissions equipment, you should have it verified/signed off before you continually drive the car". Recourses include fixing the violation, getting a 3rd party verification that is it not a violation, or provide the paperwork up front that it is street legal (i.e. showing CARB paperwork, etc)

I actually think the law is very fair (once I got around to understanding it).

-alex

That's the whole point. In many other states you simply don't have to worry about it.

Non-Californians call that freedom.

It may sound a bit over-the-top when you put it like that, but there is a certain value in literally never having to worry about my mods getting me in trouble.

No it's not fair...
 

It's not fair at all if you understand how our judicial system is supposed to work.

A violation, is a violation of law. It's a VC vehicle code violation as opposed to a PC penal code violation, but it is a violation of law. In our judicial system, LEO's are not able to pass sentence...

The very fact that we can contest VC violations and go to court attests to that.

Until such time that you get your day in court, any suspicion of violations (that may or may not be violations) should not be useable against you.

That is probably the reason that his second violation was thrown out by the court.

That provision must be for a violation after it has been entered into the system, IOW, AFTER a conviction.

Until the conviction takes place any other attempts at writing up the same violation should be null and void.

That LEOs go power tripping and assign them anyways is a PROBLEM...

If the court determines that the violation is in fact a violation, THEN continued use of the equipment found to be in violation could be deserving of additional citations, but not until that conviction takes place.

Most people don't even bother doing what I did, and they just pay the fine, but then they accept a conviction of that VC violation.

I wasn't about to do that and the 108 I had to spend in order to not do that was worth it.

I will most likely end up out of ALL three violations the officer wrote me up for, cause they were pretty much ALL bs.

two will be signed off and the third I will contest through a trial by written declaration.

I've won three tickets through trial by written declaration and have yet to have lost one, including one that I was cited as going 104 in a 65 zone.

Jaden

Instead of fighting your tickets, you could just get fewer tickets by not driving like an ass.

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/But-Thats...y-Business.jpg