Aftermarket headers in Ontario
 

Hey so I've finally figured out how I want to begin to work on my car in regards to performance parts.

My next purchase will be the Open Flash Tablet.

The next part i want would be the headers since they seem to make a bigger difference and lastly would be an exhaust.

However, exhaust may be 2nd because, i have a question regarding the headers.

I know the car is new now and I don't have to do emission tests but I plan to keep this car forever and one day I will need to do it, so would headers affect passing ontario emission tests?

I want a EL header, however i see most seem to be uncatted? I'm assuming uncatted wouldn't pass, but would the catted header pass?

I've also read that the cated headers don't improve hp much...but I'm assuming a catted header would improve it more than a catback correct?

Any insight will be much appreciated.

Just watched a video on YouTube of @BatStig and his JDL catted

In for comments

Headers will most certainly make you fail an etest. Either find a sketchy etest place that will pass you anyways, or keep your stock headers (like I'm doing) and switch them out for your new headers when the time comes

I wouldn't sweat it.

You won't need to do an emissions test until the car is 7 years old so you have that long to wait before you would need to put the OEM header back on.

I just checked the Ministry website and they are supposed to do a visual for missing cats, so it would fail for that.

Even catted headers though? I see HKS has a catted version as an example.

Wow....it will be 2022 haha:happyanim:

But same question goes, would a catted header still fail?

I haven't seen a shop do the visual inspection that thoroughly, and to see the stock cat they would need to take the under tray off. There's also a cat in the front pipe, so unless they know the car well they might just see that and assume everything is peachy.

As for passing legally... that's iffy. Catless, no chance. With a high flow cat you might pass, but depending on how good it is you might get a CEL for cat efficiency. That CEL would be a fail.

All that said, you can disable the CEL in the tune and run 100% catless and the OBD test will be happy. Not legal, but they won't find out.

I have no idea about a catted header, but I'm kind of doubting it would pass. Might as well just do catless and see just swap them out when needed

Okay, well I've watched a video on how to install the header and it seems extremely easy....i thought it was a pain in the butt but it's very straight forward so yeah....won't have to worry for 7 years...than just change to stock when i do e-test :)

Just be sure you don't have the ministry of transportation do an on-the-spot inspection, like they did at CSCS last summer

Ask @RFB to re-tell the story

Things like that make me think going to those events are a disaster waiting to happen. However, they're more than welcome to jack my car up and remove the skid plate if they so wish

Maybe I am wrong, but I recall reading an official document outlining these things, I thought we have something similar to US federal thing, where you can only replace with OEM cat within first 7 years if it could be documented that cat failed. Post that aftermarket is fine. So technically I guess any catted header would be no good. Realistically your chances of getting caught are few.

I just decided its not worth the trouble for me. I dont know if I'd be able to tolerate a swapped header, especially uncatted, volume wise. I think the Nameless muffler is loud enough for me.

One more thing, I think the cat could be visible from up top looking at the engine, you can see the shields a bit.

You can see the shields and the primary O2, but not the cat.

If I get a header it'll be catted, just to keep rasp and volume down a bit. A good high flow cat only holds back 1-2HP as long as the header design wasn't compromised to fit the cat in.

I can't give any definite info on the legalities but, as far as I know, through the magic of EcuTek I will pass the OBD test. Visual or any other BS I don't know.

I have the JDL EL catted header and the Motiv catted front pipe. She stinks when I'm bombing around the track, but it's good on the street.

All the research I have done says a good high-flow cat will have minimal effect on power. Here's my dyno. If you're concerned about peak power this dyno is a heartbreaker. That wasn't my concern, however. I had two stipulations: safe and no dip.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...8&d=1406049888

And, for some fun noises, here's a video from me working off the rust from a long winter with my first track day of 2015:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eELyCoU1_Lo"]Scion FR-S at CTMP DDT, again - YouTube[/ame]

To say Sasha's dyno is a heartbreaker is an understatement! That's easily ~190whp on a dynojet.

I forgot to ask when I stopped by the track, what mic are you using? I need to pick up an external one and want the cheapest one that works well. Doesn't need to be studio quality, just better than the built in one being buffeted by wind.

Another question, up the back straight and across the front... are you hitting the limiter in third, or short shifting a bit? I typically run right into the limiter at the top of the back straight, across the front straight, and almost brushing it heading down the hill towards the hairpin at the bottom. If you're needing to shift, you're probably going another ~10km/h faster on the two straights. Good testament to the header and tune!

For the mic, I'm using this little beauty. 20' cable means the mic can be wherever you want it regardless of camera placement. Mine is on the rear tow hook above the exhaust. [ame="http://www.amazon.ca/Audio-Technica-ATR-3350-Omnidirectional-Condenser-Microphone/dp/B002HJ9PTO/"]Audio-Technica ATR-3350 Lavalier Omnidirectional Condenser Microphone: Amazon.ca: Computers & Tablets[/ame]


As for my shift points, it's both. On OEM rubber (that's all I ran for the last three years) when hitting my marks I found myself running out of revs. Now that I FINALLY upgraded my rubber it is happening regardless of how good/bad I'm driving. Also, this year I decided to have the shift light turning on at 7000rpm. Not that I'm watching it or even notice it. I'm trying to be a little nicer to my baby.

The important bit we both forgot about during our meeting was that I probably should have taken you for a spin so you could see for yourself what the header sounds like in car on the street.

Is that ever a heart breaker!! Here are the numbers for my FRS on another Dynapak in the GTA.


Drop in filter, catless frontpipe and Q300
http://s616.photobucket.com/user/thi...t.jpg.html?o=4

Yeah, I thought about that on the way home... ah well, next time!

Haha, sleeper Hyundai with UEL's. Yes, local guy

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg9TeGodpug"]UEL Header Hyundai Elantra free-rev - YouTube[/ame]

Just looking for some clarification here.

The emissions tests I've had done on my OBDII cars (model year 2000 and 2003) require more than just "no CEL" to pass. The ministry is also checking all the emissions monitors on the ECU.

Will disabling the CEL also set the applicable emissions monitors to a "ready" state?

My best guess would be that the emissions monitors will remain in a "not ready" state (emissions test fail) even though no CEL will be generated (because they were disabled). Too many emissions monitors in the "not ready" state will cause an emissions test fail.

I'm not a technician nor do I work for any auto makers (read not currently), but I do understand a little bit about how ECUs use drive cycles to test for any malfunctions the car may be experiencing. With the monitored catalytic removed, the applicable drive cycles may never be able to determine a "ready" state. It will probably just stay "not ready" unless it can be hacked to say otherwise.

I don't have my FR-S on the road yet, (will be a few more weeks before I do) but when it is I will be installing my catless EL header and running the corresponding OFT tune with the catalytic efficiency CELs disabled. I will then use an OBDII reader to check the emissions monitors (same ones the ministry checks) for "ready" and "not ready" conditions. If anyone is able to do this experiment now please do so, I will click thanks on your post hahaha. Otherwise I will report back in a couple of months.

@DM7 I have no idea, but I look forward to your results. I'm going to send my tuner an email to see what he has to say about this. I think I have a good OBD2 reader somewhere. Good time to do some digging.

The ready state of the overall system and ready state of an individual sensor aren't quite the same thing. The cat efficiency system needs both O2 sensors be present and ready, and the cat working, to be marked as ready.

The ready state of sensors and CEL's go hand in hand. You can have sensors not ready without a CEL (my wife's bone stock Camry failed on that), but you can't have a CEL without the sensors being ready.

The ready state of a given sensor is determined by if the ECU has enough data in recent drive cycles to trust the sensor. If the car is only driven on really short drives and never fully warms up, the O2 sensors and MAF sensor won't be marked ready. Under the new test system, you'll fail because of that. You won't get a CEL until the ECU is ready to believe the sensors, so they require all sensors be in a ready state so you can't clear a CEL in the parking lot and go pass.

Now if you all sensors reporting as ready and have no CEL you'll pass. I'm not sure what exactly the tune does when disabling a CEL, but it also disables the affected system from reporting as not ready. For the cat efficiency, my best guess is that it changes the threshold to some impossibly high value so that the ECU always thinks the cat is working, even if it isn't present.

Since, to the best of my knowledge, the test doesn't actually monitor calculated values (like cat efficiency) as long as the ECU isn't reporting any issues you'll pass, and disabling the CEL's tricks the ECU into thinking everything is peachy. It doesn't turn off the light, it stops the ECU from even thinking there was a problem. You still need to meet the drive cycle requirements for the ECU to trust the sensors. You can also use an app (I think torque can do it?) to force ready states, but that's a short term solution to be done in the parking lot.

Also kind of interesting, you can pass with a CEL as long as it's not related to any emissions systems.

Not too sound like a chicken.....more like an organic chicken...but I might just do an exhaust and tune even though the gains are not as much cause the headers seem really loud -___-

That Hyundai is insanely loud.....

The loudness depends entirely on the set-up you pick. I've got a Perrin catteeed and resonated front pipe, Perrin OP, and Perrin Cat-back with a top speed EL header and it is far quieter than a bunch of guys i know with just cat-backs. I picked that set-up specifically for volume because I work stupidly early and don't want pissed of neighbours messing up my car lol