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-   -   In the pursuit and ongoing revisions of the 86, FRS, BRZ into the future... (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87009)

Moto-P 04-20-2015 08:32 AM

In the pursuit and ongoing revisions of the 86, FRS, BRZ into the future...
 
In the pursuit and ongoing revisions of the Toyota 86, Scion FR-S, and Subaru BRZ… A recap, and a look into the future towards 2017 too.
20 Apr 2015Off


2015_4_16_XaCar_Vol7_FRS update-101 Here are some details on what’s been changed on the 2015 models of Toyota 86, in Japan, as reported by XaCAR 86/BRZ Magazine, Volume 7 in Japan. I’ve also chatted with “Mr.T,” the Chief Engineer of Toyota 86 in Japan, and at Subaru, with the performance engineer, “Mr. I,”of Subaru as well in the recent past to share some light on this as well.
The Scion FRS and Toyota 86, as well as Subaru BRZ, which are all built at FHI Gumma plant in Japan, right alongside each other, with Subaru Forester and some other cars, have been in very busy production since 2012. These cars have seen a ton of media light, a huge cult following, and have been embraced by the world’s sports car aftermarket suppliers. Accolades as well as the usual nitpicking by both enthusiasts and press have also been something of a huge party on social media as well.

In 2015, some really tiny enhancements were made such as programming logic of the power steering to accommodate a more dynamic driving scenario when in Sport mode VSC. While this has been mostly to address some complaints for overly aggressive safety over-ride of the Vehicle Stability Control systems, in OFF mode, it will allow the driver to drive it as “pure” as an old analog car as any sports car should, just as before. The 2015 models also already has thicker rear panels for additional rigidity to address some slight tweaking noticed when users actually went ballistic with motorsports events using the stickiest of tires. But this hasn’t been a huge difference as most of the users of this genre modify their cars enough to address stuff like this. A famous change also is the main front strut bolt which became bigger as well, which was hyped in Japan as adding a more linear feel to the car. But this too, is really a small change that matters to only a handful of owners, as we all add camber-correction bolts to get this up to par for serious motorsports as well from aftermarket sources, along with one of the most common modification, that is coil-over suspension systems.

On the interior department, Japanese 2015 models have been graced with a tan/black interior combination which isn’t available in the USA Scion FRS nor any market Subaru BRZ, nor the satin silver interior trim (though we have them on the Limited Edition FRS RS1.0 in the USA in volume of 1500.
The colors haven’t been changed aside from the slight shift of the red to a lighter red, now called “Pure Red” from Lighting Red before, as well as Aslight Blue, changed from Galaxy Blue Silica, making the dark blue even darker for Toyota 86 and Scion FRS, while the BRZ’s WR Blue has shifted to a lighter version called “Lapis Blue Pearl.”

8 Speaker audio system for Japan, since the strong adherence to weight reduction for Japan has limited their models to 4 speaker paper cone system till this next update.
It’s nothing new for the world outside of Japan, as we’ve had 6 speaker high grade poly-carbonate driver systems already in the USA from the start as standard equipment, and furthermore, some of us are already on the much superior OEM+ system available from Scion dealers and directly from OEM Audio… (http://www.oemaudioplus.com/)

Japan finally gets cruise control – something omitted from Japanese models while the rest of the world had them in BRZ, FR-S, and GT86.

Well, now that it is reaching its fourth year in production, the car is preparing for some revamping. We don’t have photos of what it looks like (and I cannot show you if I did…) but here are some very strong hints of details of what the changes will contain for 2018.

A new front face (bumper and auxiliary lighting, as well as a new headlight assembly
The plan also includes definitely, new rear tail-lamp assembly. And yes, nice to know, though I do like the current tail too… And, for lots of folks, it’s already replaced with an aftermarket one as well, right?
A new center console and meter cluster will be part of the 2018 model too, not just colors but also a new shape.
A revised power steering module programming to allow sharper steering input at lower speeds while making it less responsive at high speeds over 200km/h to easy Autobahn speed long cruising. (Wait?! Autobahn Speeds with current engine power? Well I suppose it does reach 200km/h yes, but not too much higher than that… Still it is a nice move forward and interesting that they would consider such limited use condition and still perfect it to that situation as well.4. A revision will be made further, to make a little more adjustments to the EPS and VSC programming, again, mostly to address SPORT mode parameters to accommodate sportier driving. Like I said before, I don’t even use the VSC on a raceway so this isn’t a huge change for anyone seriously competing already.)
With the upgrade also will include couples of beefier lower arms and rods, as well as driveshafts that are tiny bit larger and beefier.So…. I guess you are still asking if there is a turbo or any more power added. They hint that there will be slightly more power, but not in any significantly different way it will deliver it, and changes are more to address things they didn’t achieve in the first editions. I’m expecting a modest increase, but more revisions to cure those tiny bits that needed some attention before.
Subaru USA though is hinting with an aggressively restyled BRZ at New York Auto show as we speak, so who knows… Maybe they’re hiding something much bigger in news?
A some elements have been addressed in the manual transmissions to allow more durability and resulting precision at the shift lever feel as well.


IN conclusion though, here are my thoughts. For the folks who sees these minor revision as points in a local car meet, or just absolutely have to have the “what’s new” to post on Instagram, these changes may well be worth waiting for another year or two. Yes, naturally it will be a nicer car I suppose if the face and tail is something they feel is better looking. I have my concerns on that though with lots of recent updated cars from all makes. Anyway that is that.
For those who just love the FRS/86/BRZ however, I really do feel that the current car is excellent, and for those who love to drive with any spirited energy, or at the absolute edge of adhesion on a closed raceway, I would instead recommend that you find a good used one for half the price of upcoming 2018, and just go crazy with a well planned hop-up menu. While the ‘minor-change’ as Japanese like to call these mid-cycle facelifts, do improve on some key items to help sell more and refresh the car on an ongoing basis, this car is just too good to spend couple of years less of your lifetime and miss out on the fun. Most of the updates in a typical minor-change can usually be fitted to an older model of the same generation too. So we can worry about this later… Much, later… when the 1.5 gen 2017 will also be a bargain racecar in perhaps 2022? That’s the way I look at it, and that latter method was how, an old AE86 was enjoyed. Aging well and being true to the roots, the more it aged.

So just go find one and get with the program really. I assure you, after 10 minutes, you’ll not care about the small things, as you work your gear lever and smile on your way somewhere not far enough.

By the way, if you want to know more about what is going on with Toyota 86, subscribe to this series of books. XaCar 86/BRZ Magazine Volume 7.

2015_4_16_XaCar_Vol7_FRS update-101-2 2015_4_16_XaCar_Vol7_FRS update-101-3 2015_4_16_XaCar_Vol7_FRS update-101-4 2015_4_16_XaCar_Vol7_FRS update-101-5

more on www.Club4AG.com

Defuser 04-20-2015 09:54 AM

So the first big update is coming in the 2018 model year? Sounds about right.

I hope they don't cave in to too many of the, "It needs more _______ " critics.

Or maybe I should hope that they do, since we have the car in its current awesome-ness.

adamg 04-20-2015 10:48 AM

awesome write up

Sideways&Smiling 04-20-2015 10:53 AM

Interesting that the 2015 model already has thicker rear panels. It's also interesting that they are tweaking the EPS... and, of course, the power. Probably just going to be really minor though... I'm guessing like 220hp with torque dip eliminated. Still NA.

smg1138 04-20-2015 11:18 AM

They need to put the same turbo on it that's on the WRX. At least offer it as an option to those willing to pay for it anyway. A lot of people would rather do that than go aftermarket and void their warranty.

HunterGreene 04-20-2015 11:34 AM

Thanks again, Moto!

EDIT: Is there any way the programming change you mentioned to the power steering could be applied to older models as well? If they use the same controller, I don't see why this couldn't be applied easily enough.

Tromatic 04-20-2015 11:57 AM

More speculation.

mav1178 04-20-2015 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tromatic (Post 2219474)
More speculation.

I'll take Moto's speculation over your facts any day of the week.

-alex

MokSpeed 04-20-2015 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smg1138 (Post 2219422)
They need to put the same turbo on it that's on the WRX. At least offer it as an option to those willing to pay for it anyway. A lot of people would rather do that than go aftermarket and void their warranty.

This has been covered over and over why it will not happen.


Also there is an option for those willing to pay: Purchase a WRX.

torqdork 04-20-2015 12:55 PM

Thanks Moto-P. I'm still holding out hope that a lightened, de-contented spec version may surprise us someday.

DuMa 04-20-2015 12:57 PM

different wings, tails, bumpers and headlights i'd welcome!

could be the same thing as S2000's AP1/AP2 refresh?

Sideways&Smiling 04-20-2015 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuMa (Post 2219557)
different wings, tails, bumpers and headlights i'd welcome!

could be the same thing as S2000's AP1/AP2 refresh?

Some extra displacement would be nice.

HunterGreene 04-20-2015 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling (Post 2219579)
Some extra displacement would be nice.

You don't know how, or if, Toyobaru is going to bump HP for the 2018 refresh, so wait until the changes are officially announced or leaked before you complain.

Sideways&Smiling 04-20-2015 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterGreene (Post 2219583)
You don't know how, or if, Toyobaru is going to bump HP for the 2018 refresh, so wait until the changes are officially announced or leaked before you complain.

How was I complaining? The AP1 to AP2 change got displacement bumped up from 2L to 2.2L. I was commenting in reference to that.

asdf 04-20-2015 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuMa (Post 2219557)
different wings, tails, bumpers and headlights i'd welcome!

could be the same thing as S2000's AP1/AP2 refresh?

Sounds like that is the way it will go-- hope those things will be able to fit onto our current chassis as options for those who like them and that the soul of the car does not change much.

HunterGreene 04-20-2015 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling (Post 2219590)
How was I complaining? The AP1 to AP2 change got displacement bumped up from 2L to 2.2L. I was commenting in reference to that.

Fair enough, I missed the reference. Sorry about that!

zc06_kisstherain 04-20-2015 02:57 PM

I will wait for 2020 FT86

Bristecom 04-20-2015 03:13 PM

Sounds great but 2018? That's 2-3 years away! Are they not going to upgrade it for the next two years? Why does it take so long when sales seem to be slipping now? I am certain this car could do that much better with said upgrades. I know I would instantly buy one and many people who already own the FR-S/BRZ would upgrade as well.

AznKirby 04-20-2015 03:16 PM

:thumbup:
Awesome information. Thanks!

nikitopo 04-20-2015 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bristecom (Post 2219752)
Sounds great but 2018? That's 2-3 years away! Are they not going to upgrade it for the next two years? Why does it take so long when sales seem to be slipping now? I am certain this car could do that much better with said upgrades. I know I would instantly buy one and many people who already own the FR-S/BRZ would upgrade as well.



I understand to be 2018 model year manufactured on 2017.

mav1178 04-20-2015 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bristecom (Post 2219752)
Sounds great but 2018? That's 2-3 years away! Are they not going to upgrade it for the next two years? Why does it take so long when sales seem to be slipping now? I am certain this car could do that much better with said upgrades. I know I would instantly buy one and many people who already own the FR-S/BRZ would upgrade as well.

Newsflash: car sales decline YoY. You can verify by checking out sales of all models of cars in their first few years of sale.

And 2018 is MY. Actual sale date would be summer of 2017, making this an effective 5-year model cycle.

-alex

Bristecom 04-20-2015 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav1178 (Post 2219929)
Newsflash: car sales decline YoY. You can verify by checking out sales of all models of cars in their first few years of sale.

And 2018 is MY. Actual sale date would be summer of 2017, making this an effective 5-year model cycle.

-alex

I know but refreshes tend to boost sales. Waiting 6 years for a refresh seems to be pushing it. Either way, I need a new car soon so maybe I'll have to settle with a MY2016 this summer. But Scion better bring the Monogram back because I'm not buying one without HID's and keyless access/start. I still hate the fact that this car is a Scion by the way... there is absolutely no benefit to Scion over Toyota.

Tromatic 04-20-2015 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav1178 (Post 2219485)
I'll take Moto's speculation over your facts any day of the week.

-alex

It's still nothing but speculation. It's funny (when it's not pathetic) how some of you react. The dude in charge of rumors at Toyobaru is probably named Pavlov.

stevesnj 04-20-2015 07:46 PM

On the Japan Toyota website they show the 2016 with the K3X color (lapis Blue) code as new color as well as Pure Red. How can this be 2015 model items?

Tcoat 04-20-2015 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevesnj (Post 2220167)
On the Japan Toyota website they show the 2016 with the K3X color (lapis Blue) code as new color as well as Pure Red. How can this be 2015 model items?

2016s are made in 2015 and that is probably what they meant not that the 15s have it but that they are being built as 16s released in 15. It is that whole damned model released in the middle of the prior year confusion that has existed since the early 60s.

stevesnj 04-20-2015 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2220187)
2016s are made in 2015 and that is probably what they meant not that the 15s have it but that they are being built as 16s released in 15. It is that whole damned model released in the middle of the prior year confusion that has existed since the early 60s.

Yeh I thought something was strange..lol thanks!

Tromatic 04-20-2015 08:23 PM

If I were a suit at Toyota, this would be a license to print money. Years of cheap, ugly and stupid "upgrades" that do nothing other than cause people to line up at the dealer for the latest shiny. I'm now starting to hope they listen to what people here want and turn the FR-S into a factory-riced fat ugly rejected Star-Trek prop pig.

Tcoat 04-20-2015 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tromatic (Post 2220234)
If I were a suit at Toyota, this would be a license to print money. Years of cheap, ugly and stupid "upgrades" that do nothing other than cause people to line up at the dealer for the latest shiny. I'm now starting to hope they listen to what people here want and turn the FR-S into a factory-riced fat ugly rejected Star-Trek prop pig.

With turbo yo.

Tromatic 04-20-2015 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2220241)
With turbo yo.

It must be a millennial thing. It's on the errornet, must be true.

Tcoat 04-20-2015 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tromatic (Post 2220260)
It must be a millennial thing. It's on the errornet, must be true.

Actually I liked the post here. It didn't try to claim anything as hard fact (other than what was a direct translation) and the author went to great lengths to affirm that much it was their opinion.

Tromatic 04-20-2015 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2220276)
Actually I liked the post here. It didn't try to claim anything as hard fact (other than what was a direct translation) and the author went to great lengths to affirm that much it was their opinion.

And 90% of the people who read it seem to think it's gospel and get pissed when you point that out.

raven1231 04-20-2015 09:18 PM

Sadly this actually probably has more truth to it than gospel

zigzagz94 04-20-2015 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tromatic (Post 2220330)
And 90% of the people who read it seem to think it's gospel and get pissed when you point that out.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...82&postcount=4

That's because we know who Moto-P is, what his connection to this project has been from the inception, and the fact that pretty much everything he's posted has been accurate.

Tromatic 04-20-2015 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zigzagz94 (Post 2220415)
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...82&postcount=4

That's because we know who Moto-P is, what his connection to this project has been from the inception, and the fact that pretty much everything he's posted has been accurate.

Credible speculation is still speculation. It's a difficult thing to understand it seems. I'm reduced to whatever. Hope you didn't miss a stroke typing your reply.

Chaetagnath 04-20-2015 11:31 PM

An excellent post by Moto-P. Nicely summarizes all the changes thus far and gives a reasonable expectation of where things are going. The advice for those who are wondering to buy now or wait for the "refresh" is spot on. Life is too short to not drive one of the twins as soon as you can, for as long as you can.

mav1178 04-21-2015 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tromatic (Post 2220027)
It's still nothing but speculation. It's funny (when it's not pathetic) how some of you react.

and as you already stated, speculation is speculation.

And as I stated already, I'll take Moto's speculation over your facts. I don't see what the problem is.

-alex

Tromatic 04-21-2015 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav1178 (Post 2220727)
and as you already stated, speculation is speculation.

And as I stated already, I'll take Moto's speculation over your facts. I don't see what the problem is.

-alex

Hey, thanks for promoting my speculation (what speculation?) to the level of "fact". Odd that you would go with speculation over fact, but what the heck.

MarcFr-s 04-22-2015 01:33 PM

Great info, I just wish they had addressed the lack of torque by now..

funwheeldrive 04-22-2015 03:08 PM

Does anyone know if the changes made to the VSC in MY15s can be flashed to earlier models?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tromatic (Post 2220234)
If I were a suit at Toyota, this would be a license to print money. Years of cheap, ugly and stupid "upgrades" that do nothing other than cause people to line up at the dealer for the latest shiny. I'm now starting to hope they listen to what people here want and turn the FR-S into a factory-riced fat ugly rejected Star-Trek prop pig.

You sound like a very angry person. I like that Toyota hasn't been making extreme changes to the car in a short amount of time, but instead has chosen to evolve the platform and allows current owners to swap in small pieces over time. Look at what Ford did with the Mustang. In 2010 they revealed the new body style for the 4.6L, and in 2011 they released the car with a a 5.0L. Can you imagine how mad the owners of the MY10s felt? It sounds like the 86 platform won't change drastically until 2017-18, and even then, most of those changes (if not all) will easily bolt on to the older cars. As the owner of a MY14, that makes me feel pretty good.

Clipdat 04-22-2015 03:24 PM

I hope they don't turbo it.


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