I am an audio newb, please learn me!
 

So, joking title aside, I am new to this whole audio thing. I have a stock FR-S with pretty much...well, no bass, as I'm sure some of you are familiar with. I'm looking to upgrade to a crisp, clean, punchy bass system to put in the trunk.

A friend of mine recommended 2 8" Arc Audio subwoofers with a 1000 amp. I can do all the wiring myself, and though I have no experience with fiberglass I am quite capable of wood working, and would build the box myself.

As soon as I figure out what constitutes as a good sub box....

Anyways

Nothing too shaky or distorted, I don't want to rattle the car or shake the cars around me. I want to be loud, and clear. I want to enjoy my music in a slightly obnoxious fashion so those around me may enjoy it as well.

Is this...good? Am I doing it wrong? Is there something else I could get that would fit my needs better? What Amp should I get? What does an Amp even do? Do I already have an Amp? Any specific wiring issues I'm going to come across? Is my car going to blow up?

making your own enclosure will be an adventure. Some people like adventure. for those that don't might want to look at integrity concepts if you want enclosures for 2 8s.

1000W is going to be too much for those speakers I think.

I'm mostly looking at keeping costs down, as a custom enclosure from a local shop (without looking "hella flush", as he put it) was around $200.

And I know that I'm capable of making a good enclosure myself, I just need to know what goes in to a good closure.

There's a lot more science that goes into quality sub enclosures than just a box with a round hole in it.

Air volume, port tuning (if any), back waves...

Mr. "hella flush" probably isn't going to great lengths to engineer the sound of a $200 enclosure, but he's likely done enough sub boxes to have learned a few of the caveats.... you'd hope.

Consider material cost, time, effort, etc.

If you want to do this as a learning exercise and are willing to accept that it's not going to turn out exactly the way you think it will on your first, maybe second, maybe third....attempt... then have at it. Life is about new experiences, right?

If your interest is in the end result and not so much the journey to get there, honestly, just pay the $200. It's a bargain for the amount of headaches you'll save yourself.

I've been researching this non stop for the past several hours, and I think you're right. Something I've been looking at are the JL Audio CP208's.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1369313...v3.html?tp=112

What I'm thinking is mounting those to the rear seats, so you could fold them into the cabin for more bass-ey-ness if desired, or if you need all your trunk space for some reason.

Is there a reason for 8s vs a 10? I'm running (and attempting to sell) a PWM110-JXWXv2. It does a very solid job on the cheap really, only a little big, but smaller than 2 8s

As has been mentioned by @Chimera, 1000W is too much for those speakers.

Of course, "1000W" is a very vague term. There's a lot more to consider in this area.

Depends entirely on what you want out of it.

Are you looking for a stealth or factory-looking clean install and not losing a ton of trunk space? You'll be utilizing the space in the rear corners of the trunk. You can't fit 2 8" subs in the spare tire well and still have the trunk floor. It's going to be quite a bit more difficult, even for a good woodworker, to fabricate something that fits well in the spaces in the rear corners of the trunk than it would for someone who knows how to use fiberglass.

If you don't care about losing your trunk space or making it a clean/stealth install, you can build a box that sits in the trunk. But you'll still have to compute air volumes, consider ports/no ports, etc. Or, you can buy a pre-fab sub box at a big box retail store for probably the same or less cost than what your materials might cost. Of course, they won't be specific for your install, but they'll work.

Perhaps, but there are as many answers to that question as there are stars in the sky. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one, and they all stink.

You'd need to nail down specifically what your needs, desires, budget, and priorities are.

LOTS of options, see above point about figuring out needs first.

Amplifies electrical current. Speakers have magnets in them, magnets respond to electricity. Send electricity near a magnet and it moves. When the speaker moves it displaces air. Displaced air creates sound waves.

If you're really interested in learning how amplifiers work, consult the Google.

Yes. Well, probably. I am not sure on the FR-S. On the BRZ the factory audio system has an amp. It's a piss weak amp, but it's an amp, technically.

In either case, even if you do have an amp, it's not adequate to power subwoofers, so it's moot.

Lots, probably, depends on what you decide to end up doing. It's not rocket surgery, but if you don't have a basic understanding of what you're doing....

No, but it could catch fire. That's not a joke. Be sure to do some research before you embark on a wiring job.

There ya go...

I can attest that a single 10" can produce MORE than adequate bass in these cars. Mine is a different setup, but I see no reason why this wouldn't fit the bill.

From what I was told (Was told, I'm ignorant, grain of salt) 10's are capable of moving more air, thus creating more bass, however there's a higher chance of distortion or something. Completely dependent upon the quality of the speaker itself. I, personally, am not looking for rattle-my-door-hinges bass, but thump-my-chest-a-bit bass.

I'm getting some recommendations on the 208's
Not really caring too much about a clean install, but I think my "stick it to the rear seat thing" idea is kinda cool.
Budget is around $750, ish. The 208's + amp + controller would fit in that.
Deciding factor now if the 208's are recommended, I know @Trashed675 had a 108 installed I think
Coolio, I'm kind of a nerd.
So definitely getting an amp.
My friend is helping me install the wiring stuff, and he used to work at an audio shop. He told me to go with my own stuff originally rather than overpaying for someone to do a (probably) less than adequate job. Car stuff isn't huge in my area unless I want to drive a couple hours into missouri.
Fire extinguisher on hand, noted.

For your budget personally I'd go with the jl stealth box and the nvx amp combo. It's a slim line 10 tw3 setup with 300w. Maximizes available trunk space too and is secure when you want to spin the car around turns and such.

Incidently I want to upgrade to that setup myself

And one more thought, the stock 13 hu has sub pre outs, which is pretty awesome imo.

The what Now?

I am an audio newb, please learn me!
 

You should probably do lots sound deadening first. Cuz our car have a lot less sound deadening then a civic... Another thing is that because how small it is inside you don't need as much power to achieve the same effect u need on other cars.

& like keithr said make a custom unit that fit into spare wheel wall would be the best.

I have 150w going to an 8" and it is quite a bit of sound for such a tiny cabin in our cars. I absolutely see wanting more (I want it loud inside but don't want to annoy anybody more than 5y away), but 1000w for sub is overkill.

I second the questioning for 2x8 instead of one 10" as well. I can't imagine a 2x8 enclosure will take unless than a single 10". Maybe two small fiberglass enclosures that plug the pockets in the rear corners of the trunk but again, a 10" wouldn't take much more room than one of those and you'd have more cargo space and less weight added.

And you don't have to pull the seats down for more sound. It makes no discernible difference up or down with my little setup, let alone your 1000w plan.

Yeah, that awful looking pioneer stock HU in the first year cars have an rca out for a sub, and the stock stereo has sub level control and on/off switching for the amp. It looks ghetto in the car but is pretty cool that it's reasonably well equipped as standard.

I have a single 10" sub using the 2013 base head unit RCAs. Super convenient.

More on topic; I drive the sub with a 400 watt amp and I can't imagine having more power. The car would rattle to pieces. Plus without an aftermarket head unit and speakers there just aren't enough mids & highs to keep up with what the Sub is capable of.

Say I wanted to up grade the head united and speakers later on down the road, which would be an obvious thing to do, but for now I just wanted to get the speakers. I'm pretty determined to get the 208's because they seem to be a really good unit for my needs now, and my foreseeable needs in the future.

Edit: Quick googling on RMS vs Peak power educated me.

Any amp recommendations?

Combined Power Handling: Peak: 1000 watts / RMS: 500 watts
Final Impedance: 2 Ohm mono

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/JL-Audio-CP208LG-W3v3-Subwoofer-Subwoofers/dp/B0082DIYBO"]Amazon.com : JL Audio CP208LG-W3v3 Dual 8" Subwoofer Enclosure w/ (2) 8W3v3-4 Subwoofers : Vehicle Subwoofer Systems : Car Electronics[/ame]

The FR-S has an amp, a little one, located in the trunk area. Remove the spare tire cover and you'll see it on the left side. It's a white box, not very big.

You want to match the amp to the speakers used. 1000W is sort of equivalent to putting a 1000 hp motor in the FR-S. The transmission and rear end won't take the power in stock form.

Too much power will cause failure by pushing the voice coil(s) completely out of the gap, which will usually cause the coil to jam permanently. The other failure mode is thermal failure of the voice coil itself, but usually the VC has been mechanically damaged before that occurs.

Also, power is not continuously at peak level; most of the time you will be kicking out less than 10 watts. It is only on the dynamic peaks (and for only a moment) that the full power of the amp is used.

You can match the efficiency of the speaker with the amp. If the typical car loudspeaker is 90 db efficient at 1 watt, then you would need 1000W (in open air) to produce 120 db. However, with cabin gain you really need far less than this. Anyway, 120 db would literally damage your hearing. For 110db in open air, you would need only about 250 watts. That is plenty loud. Again, it will be higher than that due to cabin gain (enclosed space).

So unless you plan to be deaf, I doubt you'll need more than about 250 watts.

For that box the JL JX500 would be the clearest matched amp.

Would I remove that amp and replace them with the new one?

The amp behind the back seat is for the door speakers. I wouldn't remove it unless you don't care about having door speakers. I wouldn't replace it unless you're also replacing the door speakers, because the existing speakers are 2 ohms. I wouldn't replace the speakers without replacing the amp because the amp runs at 2 ohms and will make significantly less power at 4 ohms, which is what most aftermarket speakers run at.


What you CAN do is tap its connectors for the audio signal. That's what I did. I've got a tiny little Kicker sub amp squeezed in right next to the door speaker amp, and I pulled l/r audio and remote turn-on from the existing amp to feed mine.

Yes. The small amp has RCA inputs so it should be a snap to switch it out. Just use the existing connectors.

I know. I run less than half that through an 8" and only OCCASIONALLY could argue that I would ever use any more.

no, the stock amp is used to power the door speakers, removing it would disable the doors.

there are guides on how to replace it with better amps though. I am using the wiring and location of the stock amp for a 4ch ktp-445u
gives you more power and options, and its conveniently located.

check the audio directory for OEM amp for a thread with loads of info on it.

That's the only amp I'm aware of; where is the one to drive the dashboard speakers and the ones near the rear passenger "seat"?

stock config has all those driven off the HU
stock config has the dash as 2 4 ohms wired in parallel for 2 ohm load

The 3.5 and the tweeter? I thought they were two 4 ohm speakers with a crossover between them.

if you look closely at the tweeter with it out, its connector takes input on the 2 middle pins and wires the directly out on the 2 outer which go to the 3.5
and each speaker has passive crossover caps on board the speaker as I recall. I don't have any of them in anymore, I could look when I get home, but that's what I recall.

edit: the full signal deff goes into the tweeter, I don't think it would be possible for them to have fit a crossover network on the back of the tweeter, I think it's a simple parallel setup

Ok, yeah. The two speakers don't play at the same time, so the head unit sees a 4 ohm load across the entire frequency range. The mid has a low pass filter and the tweeter has a high pass filter both set for their crossover point.

I would not do that. The vibrations from the sub(s) are going to go straight into seat back and the rear deck, which are going to rattle like all get-out. Also, folding them into the cabin is not going to produce more bass-ey-ness, it doesn't work that way. We won't get into sound wavelengths, but you don't want subs right behind your head. In our cars, you want your subs as far toward the back as you can reasonably get them.

Ummmm.... no. If that was the case, nobody would use larger speakers for any sound quality competitions or in any high-end setup.

Yes, shitty speakers will likely sound shitty. But it has nothing to do with whether they're 8" or 10" diameter, it's because they're shitty.

You should come to Phoenix and have a listen to my car. I think you'll be convinced that a single 10 is exactly what the doctor ordered.

While these are not at all bad speakers, my recommendation is that you take a step back and unprogram your brain that you must use 8" drivers.

You also don't want a big box potentially tipping over and/or sliding around in your trunk when you take a corner, or eating up what little usable trunk space we have to start with.. food for thought. That 208 setup is 37" wide by 13" tall by 8" deep. It would take some trial and measurements, but my instinct tells me you're going to get better sounding bass by standing it up and firing it toward the rear of the vehicle, which is going to make it very tip-prone unless you secure it down. If you lay it flat with it firing up, the sound is going to be different. Again, it would take some trial and measurements to really figure out what's best. Either way, it's a pretty big box to deal with.

@Chimera mentioned a Stealthbox and NVX amp, which I've recommended that setup to a couple other people in other threads here.

http://www.pacificstereo.com/jl-audi...frs-10tw3.html

Click the green button that says "Sign up" and you'll get a 20% off coupon for your first order. That makes the Stealthbox $520.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...NVX-MVPA1.html

$160.

So, that's $680, which leaves you $70 for a wiring kit and any other miscellaneous items.

And that Stealthbox will produce exactly the kind of bass you've been describing. It will not rattle the car apart, it will not blow the windows out of the neighbors' houses, but it will add a solid, clean, low-end thump. It installs in the corner of the trunk and makes the most efficient use of space possible.

It *IS* capable of producing quite a surprising volume level of bass, so you'll want to be prepared to start hunting down rattles and vibrations in the car, which are the car's fault, not the sub. That's only a factor depending on your usage of the volume knob on the radio and the type of music you're listening to.

Well if he worked as an installer then he'll know about how to run your power wire, how to locate and install a good ground, fusing, etc.

If he ran the cash register...well... hopefully he picked up some knowledge by osmosis.

No, not right now. That amp is what makes your door speakers play.

The radio. "HU" is cool audio guy slang for Head Unit, aka receiver, aka deck, aka source unit, aka radio.

There's a LOT to talk about if you're getting into car audio, but if you want to keep it simple for first steps then I'd also highly recommend the JL stealth box. One 10 or two 8's will be PLENTY unless you want to get loud. A single 10 moves more air than a single 8, so it can produce lower frequencies with less effort, but the same could be said for a 12, and a 15, and an 18... So you pick the size, power handling, and specs based on what fits your needs and the application. In this case, we have a tiny cabin and a small trunk, so a 10 is really your hard limit. A single 8 can do wonders in a small space. I have two 8's in individual sealed fiberglass enclosures driven by about 600 watts max RMS (dialed back of course), and it's more than I'll ever need, but I have headroom and the amp is never warm.

Good car audio is very subjective, everyone will have a different opinion of what's best. Having more bass is usually the first step. Most people jump in wanting WAY more than what they'll actually need, unless they're a teenager who wants to blow the glass out and piss off the neighbors.

Then, at some point you'll want better overall quality and go with an aftermarket amp for mid and high drivers, maybe upgrade the head unit, and add some sound deadening to help control rattles and resonances (that can add unwanted color to even low volume music).

Eventually some graduate to a really nice setup with additional sound deadening, a solid head unit with DSP (digital signal processing for better tuning, or a 3rd party DSP unit), with nice quality drivers all being driven individually for discreet adjustment of timing and frequency response. Most at this point will only use front component drivers with no rears for a clear "sound stage" and more accurate tuning. Once you get to this level you've begun to really appreciate good music on a system that's been adjusted to sound phenomenal.

Noob question inbound

Where do I get a wiring kit?

amazon, or any stereo shop, your stereo installing friend should easily be able to provide one.

Any walk-in car audio shop, Amazon, Crutchfield, Sonic Electronix, all kinds of places.

Match the wiring kit to what your amp requires. If the amp only needs an 8ga power wire, don't buy one with a 0ga wire on the premise that bigger is better.

Also, make sure you even need a kit. If you're pulling signal from the door amp then you don't need RCAs. All I really needed was 15 ft of 12ga power wire and 2 ft of 12ga ground wire. I bought them singly for about $5 from a local shop, and then a couple of crimp connectors from Lowe's.

... I wouldn't tap any signals off the stock amp.

Garbage in = garbage out.

You don't need to take a processed, speaker-level signal off a factory amp and feed it into a good amp and a good sub if your head unit has RCA subwoofer output(s). It's a very small time investment to pull the radio out and run a proper RCA line-level input to your amp. You'll also get the added benefits of the subwoofer controls (on/off, level, whatever is there... I don't know I don't have an FR-S) on the head unit actually working. If you tap the factory amp, those controls won't work.

Chain, weakest link, you know the drill.

I didn't have the option for RCAs, unfortunately. I ended up getting a male and female plug and harness for the rear amp, putting those together, and pulling signal off the signal from the radio before it got to the amp.

Yeah, I see that you drive a BRZ, like me.

Seems that although our HU was supposed to be "better" -- we didn't get some of the stuff that the FR-S got, like subwoofer RCAs on the HU. Instead we got eleventy billion harness plugs. Seriously, that's a lot of shit on the back of our radios.

I was happy to yank that horrible BRZ HU out. I'm 10,000% happier with my Pioneer 4000NEX.

Actually, and this is counterintuitive, the size of the speaker is not that important. What is important is how much air it can move and what its low resonant frequency is.

What is missing in the concept as you describe it is the amount of excursion that the loudspeaker can achieve. A larger diameter speaker does not have to move as far to "push" the same amount of air but many 15" or even 18" woofers barely move at all. A 10" woofer can move the same amount of air, but must have much greater excursion to achieve the same volume level.

You can accomplish the same thing with two smaller speakers that can push an equivalent amount of air, and they have less mass individually than the bigger diameter speaker. That is an advantage because lower mass usually means less distortion at a given volume level.

Another thing that you can do is use a subwoofer amp with a smaller, long excursion speaker (designed to take the punishment) and have the amp internally equalized to increase the output (by way of greater excursion) the lower the pitch goes. This is what my home theater Klipsch subwoofer does; it is less than 12" on a side as a result, yet makes really wonderful bass.

A large speaker is simpler and less complex to work into a system and often is more efficient. BUT, and this is important, the speaker cannot go much lower than its F(0), its resonant frequency. This number should be given as a specification along with power handling, frequency response, Xmax (excursion) and efficiency (in dB).

Porting and other enclosure tricks are designed to get the speaker response closer to its F(0) but even there you really can't go lower than F(0). If you equalize the bass to go below F(0) then you MUST use a sealed cabinet (not ported) or the excursion will get out of control very quickly.

This is not as straightforward as it seems, but there are some good books on speaker building out there and they all apply to car speakers too. It's just that the "enclosures" are sometimes a bit different (read: interior space of a door or a trunk).

This website can provide some good information that also applies to cars:

http://www.loudspeakerdesign.co.uk/

If you want to build an enclosure, I suggest that you start with an infinite baffle (sealed) box. They are easier to make. If you want to get adventurous, you might try a ported cabinet.

Software is available free at this site:

http://www.speakerbuilding.com/software/

I have used LspCAD Lite myself and it is an excellent product. Free!

The main thing is to have fun and learn something new! Don't be afraid to dive in.