Anyone deal with "unsafe vehicle" tickets?
 

Being on air suspension I feel I drive pretty low. Probably too low. Last night I got pulled over for driving too low deemed "unsafe". I told the cop I was on air suspension and proceeded to raise it up to stock. He said that was all well and good but if I get pulled over with it again I could receive an unsafe vehicle ticket, or even worse be towed and impounded.

Can this seriously happen when I can go back to stock height in 4 seconds?

Everything I have is DOT approved. What about the old style Lincolns? Or Metro buses? Air suspension is legal, so how can he threaten me with being impounded because I was driving low?

Any advice on how to get out/fight that kind of ticket or issue is appreciated.

I personally feel like the cop was being a jerk.

Lawyering up and making note that your parts are DOT approved would probably be enough.

The last time I got a speeding ticket I was doing 55 in a 45. I could have gotten below the speed limit in practically no time by pushing my brake pedal but I still got the ticket.

You're probably right, I would give you a ticket too. Stop driving so damn low.

OP was born in the late 90s.

OP it really doesn't matter what you "can" or "could" do.

Its what you did.

You were driving an unsafe vehicle. While moving, you were too low and "unsafe".
a good example is the speeding ticket example given in a prior post.

"Look officer; I can drive the speed limit." is never an excuse for what you actually did.

Who defines what "too low" is though? There should be an objective measurement requirement somewhere in some statute that says "Less than X inches of ground clearance is too low." Otherwise what authority would the ticket be based on?

Now, if his headlights were below the minimum height, that's different. Because there actually are rules detailing minimum and maximum height restrictions for headlights.

Although I hate the "draggin ass" look of super low cars:

HOW can being too low be an unsafe condition?
The only thing unsafe about it is that youre going to fuck up your car.

I dont see it being a hazard to anyone else unless you are also speeding and thrashing the car around.

If their bags were blown and they were slammed, that could also be considered "unsafe"

You car can easily exceed the speed limit, but if you do and get caught you can't blame the cars ability

Now that you've gotten a warning, they can arrest you per 2800 CVC if they catch you doing it again.

If you get arrested, your car gets impounded.

I think it depends on local regulation, but there are lists of vehicle regulations for each state which can include frame height, laws against excessive lowering/raising, how far away the horn has to be heard, etc.

Just because it might not be unsafe doesn't mean that there is a law/regulation stating it as such

California has a maximum frame height restriction based on GVWR, but no minimum frame height restriction. The body of the vehicle needs to be within 5 inches of the frame. There are no bumper-specific height restrictions. VC 24008.5.

Headlights should be between 22-54 inches from the ground, VC 24400(a).

Fog lights should be between 12-30 inches from the ground, VC 24403(b).

I would be interested to know exactly what regulation he thought you were in violation of.

California law does...

Lowered frame (or any other part) that is lower than the lowest point of the wheel rim (24008 VC).

Air and hydraulic suspension systems that are operated unsafely or with the vehicle lower than allowed (24002, 24008 VC).

Thanks, I didn't find those.


For 24008, if his car is lower than the lowest point on his wheel, I imagine it would be hard to drive at all, because it would be dragging on everything and throwing sparks. Fair enough.


That's not what 24002 says though.

First, read this: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/8-...-who-wins.html

Now remember what happened in CT?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/04...r-report-says/

Pretty much anytime you alter something, like height, stance, etc. to non-factory specs, you're taking all liability for any accident (and all repercussions: damage to your car, other vehicles, personal injuries, etc.) that can be attributed to it. Especially if you don't tell your insurance company.

24002 VC looks to be older, but I'm sure some combo of those laws are what got the OP the "unsafe vehicle" warning. I'm obviously not from Cali so I'm just using the ol' Google machine :D

Same here. It really looks like the only specifics are 24008 and 24400/24403 for the lights. Everything else is vaguely worded with no specific measurements to enforce.

There's someone on base here with air suspension. When he parks he drops it to sit on the ground. Even then, because of the drop adding substantial negative camber to the rear wheels, he would only barely be in violation of 24008. I can't imagine anyone trying to drive in violation of that, unless they were specifically trying to throw sparks or rolling into a car show.

I've been dealing with this too low" part for about 20 years now in California.

You CAN be cited for being too low, as it is a safety issue. Just because you are able to drive at your ride height doesn't mean you can drive it legally.

The violation usually is used in the context of a moving vehicle. No one cares when you're parked. No one cares you can fix it in 4 seconds.

It's like getting a ticket for texting while driving... you can put your phone away, but you already violated the vehicle code(s). So does that mean you're innocent?

-alex

If you're in violation of the code, then you're in violation of the code, and such is life. Which paragraph of the code defines your car being too low while driving, though? That's what we've been trying to find out.

It's left intentionally ambiguous and at the officer's discretion. The point is that the car was "too low," it's that it was because it was determined to be unsafe. In a case where the OP says it was, in fact, unsafe because it was too low, what's the point in dissecting the law?

Solution: Drive a lifted truck. Then you can never drive too low. Only too high. When on drugs.

idk OP, probably can't fight it since at the time you were driving too low... I got a ticket once for turning right while a pedestrian was still crossing the intersection (Its a huge ass 6 lane road and he was almost at the other side, past the halfway point) Apparently I was suppose to wait until the other person steps on the opposite side of the sidewalk (which no one ever does)... I should have disputed it :/ Even my old driving instructor said it could have been disputed.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...le=24400-24411

That is the most common one used to cite for excessive lowering, as it is a standard 12" for the fog lamps or 22" for middle of headlights.

As for the actual body:

The body part is meant to cover lifted vehicles.
Most officers will use the lighting part to cover the lowered cars.

To fight a "too low" ticket, you just have to make your front bumper higher.
The auto enthusiasts will give you the tasteless mod ticket, which is uncorrectable.

-alex

See my previous post for max allowed for lifted vehicles.

-alex

Because police officers can be wrong too, especially in areas that are ambiguous. I would make damn sure that I knew whatever I was charged with, and whether or not I was actually not in compliance with the law. Just because someone with a badge says he doesn't like it does not mean it's not in compliance. He's not required to like it; he's required to enforce the law.

The original poster said the car was too low. End of story.

And I'm fine with that. 24400, 24403, and 24008 establish specific requirements that must be met to be in compliance, and that's how it should be. Leaving it up to an individual's discretion as to what is correct or not is ineffective because it can change day to day, person to person. What if the guy is just in a pissy mood that day?

12" for fog light from level ground
22" for headlight from level ground (middle of headlight, or DOT "O" center markings if no "middle")

That was what I was cited for in approx. 2001. My aftermarket foglights were too low.

Every officer since that I've dealt with, has basically used the lighting code to reference a car that is "too low"

But like someone else said, it's the officer to give you a citation (or not) based on their judgment of what you are possibly in violation of. It's up to the Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) to determine if you are in violation of that code or not.

See: all exhaust tickets, speeding, etc. Officers cite based on evidence, you can prove innocence via court, 3rd party inspections, or get it fixed, or pay the fine/bail, etc.

-alex

Let's say you have a stock Ferrari F458.

Let's say one officer swears your car is modified and is in violation of 95db sound limit. Another officer previously has said the sound is fine.

You will still get a ticket and have to run through the legal process if officer #1 insists your exhaust is illegal, whether that officer was correct or not.

Just because you got a ticket doesn't mean you are wrong.... it simply means a peace officer thinks you are in violation of a law or vehicle code. But a lot of people think of a ticket as a guilty stamp.

-alex

I know, and they just hang their heads and pay up. I would rather know the law and take it to court if I thought I was innocent.


Now, if I did end up being guilty, then such is life. I'll pay up and promise not to do it again.

Just look up what your state or municipality requires your bumper hight to be at. If there is a specicification, then dont drive on the street any lower than that.

Everything is at the discretion of the Law Enforcer. You could be doing 50 mph in a 55 mph and be in violation of the speed law.

If the cop thinks its unsafe to be driving 50 mph at that time, You're in violation of the law and you have to prove that you were not. Kind of the way things go. Its not innocent until proven guilty anymore.

But it is, most people just view a ticket as admission of guilt when it's the complete opposite.

Just like how car guys like to say "void warranties" when modding their cars. They are admitting defeat before they even start.

-alex

Accepting a ticket and not going to court is an admission of guilt. :P

Minitruckers and lowriders have gotten tickets in Cali based on the "nothing lower than the bottom edge of the rim" rule for years. I know guys that got ticketed for it in the 1980's. In Florida it was the height of the center of the headlight, 24", and conveniently a night stick is/was 24" long, so we knew when we were getting checked. Back then, many of the guys were static dropped, and would have to "fix it", and run it past the police for inspection.