What do you think of this set up? (Audio)
 

Speakers

Pioneer Stage 4 TS-C172PRS
PRS Series 6-3/4" component speaker system

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TSC1...l?cc=07&tp=105

Head unit

Pioneer FH-X820BS

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130X820...S.html?tp=5684

Amp

Alpine KTP-445U Power Pack

Compact upgrade for any car radio — 45 watts

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500KTP4...ower-Pack.html


Any reason this set up would be a bad idea? IE not enough power, difficult to install, better bang for buck available etc.?

How would this stack up to the OEM plug and play packages?

What would you get instead and why?

Thanks

If it were me then I would probably upgrade the head unit. I have had enough ok ones to appreciate a good in dash source and I have definitely regretted getting an ok one when I wanted a better one.

I currently use this and give it a thumbs up:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500HD14...148bt&skipvs=T

I also have come to like the extra storage that the single din provides with the pocket considering how little storage our cars have in the cabin. Lastly the time correction and eq features that a good source gets you can save $ down the road in processors, crossovers, etc.

There's no right answer...
 

Hi Mike,

Audio, and aesthetics, are subjective things. To that, i'll give my subjective opinions. :D

I'm usually not a big fan of Pioneer's speakers. These, however, seem to get really good reviews. So, you can either take their word for it, or take my word for it. I would suggest you take NOBODY'S word for it...

Have you heard these speakers in person? I always recommend auditioning speakers before purchase. Speakers are VERY subjective; what one person thinks sounds fantastic, another might think sounds terrible. I'm a big fan of JL Audio speakers in the car, and Boston Acoustics at home. There are LOTS of people who would vehemently disagree with me. My brother spent a small fortune on Helix speakers in his Tacoma, and honestly, I think my JL C5's sound better.

I do not like these double-din non-touchscreen units. I think they're ugly as all get-out and ruin the aesthetics of the vehicle. Ask yourself what you're really looking for in this head unit...

Features? You're going to give up HD Radio and satellite radio, if those matter to you... although you can add the satellite radio as an option if you want it. You'll obviously lose any benefits of the full color LCD like album art, NAV (I'm assuming you don't care about that), etc. That HU also only has 2V preouts, which, while adequate, are not going to give you the best signal for clean sound.

If you want to fill the double-din space, personally I'd recommend a touchscreen unit that would truly be an upgrade from the factory radio. Otherwise, you could just keep the factory radio and upgrade speakers/amp/etc. if you want a "upgrade on a budget."

Pioneer and Kenwood have lots of options, some more affordable than others, but features, of course, will vary with price. I would suggest you make a list of your needs/wants and find the best fit for what you're after.

If you don't need/want a touchscreen, I see no reason to put a double-din radio in there, like @seant2h said, a single din will give you some extra storage space, and I personally think they look a whole lot better than those big non-touchscreen monsters. There are some nice singe din units available too including the Alpine he mentioned as well as offerings from Pioneer and Kenwood... again, decide what your needs/wants are and go from there.

This would be sufficient... certainly not going to "rock the house" with a little guy like that, but it's a step up from running speaker power off the HU. There are a few of those compact amps out there to choose from, I've seen similar offerings with varying wattage and distortion (be sure to check the specs!) from Alpine, Pioneer, Clarion, Kicker, and others...

Personally, I think this little guy is pretty impressive: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...NVX-MVPA4.html

Depending on how far you want to take the install, you can get harnesses and adapters to make it all fairly painless as far as the install goes. You can use the factory speaker wiring if you don't need to run a lot of power to your speakers, there are adapters for the plugs at the factory locations so you don't even have to cut them off. Or, you could take a step up and run new wire, but that's a bigger endeavor. As far as inside the dash... well, I've just completed installing my own system and I can tell you, there are a lot of harnesses and adapters you'll need to make it all work and it can get confusing.

@SVXdc is the guru for all THAT stuff, you can order pretty much everything you'd need from him and he's a great guy to deal with. You can search around on these forums and find various posts and threads by him, and you can start here on his website to start figuring out all the pieces and parts.

By this, I assume you mean the OEM Audio+ system?

Well, I haven't heard the OEM Audio+ Reference 400CF in person, but the components you listed above really aren't going to compare to the full OEM Audio+ system. The price tag alone should indicate a pretty significant difference between the two... the OA+ package includes a subwoofer and much more powerful amplifiers with DSP to correct some sound oddities off the factory deck. The OA+ package gets really good reviews in terms of improving the sound quality inside the BRZ. Again, though, I haven't heard it myself.

All THAT being said....

As far as "bang for the buck" I think you can do better than the OA+, if you're willing to put in a little bit of work, or pay for that work if you don't want to do it yourself.

I just finished (well, still have some details to take care of but it's mostly done) installing my system in my BRZ, consisting of:

Pioneer AVH-4000NEX Head Unit
JL Audio XD700/5v2 Amp
JL Audio C5-650 front component speakers
JL Audio C2-525x rear speakers
JL Audio Stealthbox subwoofer
Rydeen Duo backup camera
2015 OEM shark fin antenna
All new wiring

I will probably do a write-up on the install, I did it along with full-car sound deadening. I took pictures along the way and I'll mention some of the caveats I ran into.

Now, all that, at retail, is a pretty hefty price tag and if you were to have it installed by a shop, add quite a bit for labor for a QUALITY installation. However, with some savvy and clever shopping, I was able to score all of that for probably 50% of retail pricing and I did the work myself. Still not cheap, but in my opinion, a MUCH more potent bang for the buck and it sounds AWESOME.

Determine what your wants/needs are for the project. Budget? Superb sound quality or just a step up from stock? Features? etc. Use that list to drive your decisions on the what and how.

:cheers:

Honestly, the only things I ever use on the stock head unit are usb and audio ports for music from my phone or thumb drive, next folder/album, next track, and volume.. so I'm mostly concerned with aesthetics and not so much with features. The only real must is that it has to have options to turn all backlighting/wallpaper red to match the rest of the interior.

I want something that looks really good, and performs well without needing to mess with a ton of features. The only feature I can think of that I really want is blue tooth.

I would definitely appreciate the extra storage space.

Yes, I was referring to the two packages, I think one is 600ish and the other is like 1k or 1500. I'd heard that you are mostly paying for the plug and play convenience and not so much for quality.

How'd you get such good prices?

I want a significant improvement over stock, but am not looking for perfection. Budget is flexible, I'm in a good financial position, but I just don't think I need to spend more than 600-800 for the substantial improvement I'm looking for, especially since I'm not planning on a sub in the trunk.

I'm less concerned with price though, and more concerned with getting the most value for the money.

Thanks very much for your helpful replies. To be completely honest I'm getting to the end of my mods and am exhausted with reading and researching, and I've been working 11 hour shifts the last few weeks, so the easier this can be made the better. I might just end up copying someone else's set up to make this less painful lol.

I was just reading reviews for Infinity Kappa 62.11i and came across this statement: "If your end goal is punch for music like Hip Hop or Dance music, I'd look elsewhere."

Reading that, I realize that's basically what I'm looking for. I like rock and alternative, but I'll mostly be driving to hip hop, drum and base, electronic/trance, and I tolerate brief spurts of dubstep, although sometimes I wonder why. I want something with some good punch to it.

That said, what would you recommend for speakers?

The only place I can go to listen to them is best buy, and I'm not sure how many options they'll have on display.

Honestly? Based on your music selection, and your desire for "significant improvement over stock, but am not looking for perfection," and getting close to your exhaustion/burn-out point?

Sounds to me like the OA+ package might be exactly what the doctor ordered. I watched their install video and it's very simple, clean, and tidy. It's not going to be the absolute ultimate in kick-ass sound, but the reviews are really good and it would certainly be a big step up from the stock setup.

I would guess there are probably a handful of audio shops scattered around you. Maybe a small local shop, or, even an Audio Express (:barf:)... None of them are going to have the OA+ system to demo, but you could probably find a selection of mid and high-range speakers to audition. Your budget will take a hit with premium components, of course.

...back to my previous comment about taste in speakers being subjective... for years the Kappas have been some of the most highly-rated mid-grade speakers on the market. Lots of people LOVE them. I never liked the way they sound. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.

That's why it's always best to audition speakers, amps, even source units before buying if possible. In cases where it's not possible, just accept that it's a gamble whether your ears will find the new aroma pleasant or bitter.

So... I gotta ask... why not just keep the stock HU and put your budget into the rest of the system? Why spend $200-$300 on a HU to get the the same or fewer features than what you currently have?

As far as USB/iPod/BT music, I *really* recommend a full display/touchscreen unit. It makes seeing the song titles, browsing folders, etc., so much nicer than trying to navigate through an "old school" display and controls.

By keeping the stock HU, you retain the LCD screen. While it's not the best interface or screen on the market, it's also effectively free at this point, and if it works for you, why change it? You also will save yourself the headaches of buying eleventy-billion adapters, harnesses, and doohickies to cleanly integrate a aftermarket HU.

....yeah.... get a bigger car. :lol:

Patience and tenacity.

I spent a couple weeks walking the Internet price shopping. HU came off eBay, was an open box but in perfect condition. Amp also came from eBay and was very lightly used. JL speakers came from Car Audio Giants, I honestly don't remember if I found a sale or a promo or if they just ended up having a way better price... I bought most of this stuff last summer. The JL Stealthbox came from Pacific Stereo, I discovered that they had a code on their website for 20% off your first order. Well, I'd never bought anything there before. Score. 20% of $649.95 is $129.99 saved right there. I got some nice OFC speaker wire from eBay from a seller in Sparks, NV where I used to live (skyhighcaraudio). Best price I've seen on really nice wire, and he ships super fast. The bulk of the pieces/parts/adapters/miscellany and my main wiring kit (power wires, fuse blocks, etc.) came from Sonic Electronix... I had a huge shopping cart with stuff for both my install and the install I did in my fiancee's Mazda, so I called up a sales rep and negotiated with him for a discount since it was such a large order.

Oh, and a few things came off Amazon as well, by digging into the additional price offers they have listed on most items from different sellers that most people don't even know is there or ever click on. :D

I would urge you to reconsider the sub... especially since:
Based on your music, and a couple other factors, I really think you should seriously consider the OA+ system. The Reference 400CF system is $1500, so it's slapping your proposed budget around a bit, but I think it's a winner for what you're looking for.

[ side note ] PayPal is currently offering 18 months of interest-free financing on purchases $899 or more. Boom! Free money for 18 months. $85 / month ain't so bad, eh?

I like that the amps hide in the sub enclosure, the wiring is simple and clean and all plug and play, and I think you'd be quite happy with the results. You'll be spared lots of hassle and headaches integrating a HU, finding/buying/making speaker adapters, finding a place to install amp(s), learning how to properly tune amp gain, etc.

The sub really won't take up that much room. The OA+ sub doesn't take any more space than my JL Stealthbox, and, really, the trunk is ridiculous as it is, losing the rear corner and a couple inches off the one side isn't really making the difference between being able to fit a sheet of plywood in there from Home Depot or not. :bellyroll:

Since you'll have the door trim off anyway, I STRONGLY recommend you treat the doors (if nothing else) with some sound deadening, both on the door itself and the door card (interior door panel). It will really tighten up the doors, eliminate rattles and really improve the sound of the door speakers. Talk to Don over at http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/ and he can put together a package for you to treat your doors. It *really* makes a difference, believe me.

If you're going to listen to a lot of electronica, get a dynamic speaker setup and more importantly, invest in a QUALITY and heavy hitting sub like a JL W6 10 inch or 12 inch sub. V2 or V3, stay away from V1s as they're reaching very worn out status. Get an amp to fit. Possibly check out those 5-channel amps, like a Phoenix Gold Ti. Having to run lines for only one amp is beautiful

@Integrity Concepts is coming out with a 12 inch passenger side box that will kick the pants out of the OEM+ variant. The only thing that OEM+ has truly going for them, aside from ease of install, is their DSP. Big dollar R&D piece of equipment. Unfortunately, they don't sell that thing separately from the 400Ref package

Damn it! Now I want to drive to Arizona so you can help me pick and install! Nicely done on both essays as I have had huge inner turmoil as to what I wanted to do but they helped a lot.

Come on down... it's a tad warmer than Ontario.

You can demo my car. :party0030:

Because it's ugly and dated looking, has 4 background colors to pick from that are all dull and ugly, and I don't see any benefit to the touch screen. I'd rather just have a button i can feel rather than trying to steady my finger over little touch screen buttons while bouncing down the road.

I really hate the stock unit.. Any red back lit unit that fits this car would make my interior look substantially better imo..

Got my eye on these two now...

http://wwv.crutchfield.com/p_020CZ50...5.html?tp=5684

http://wwv.crutchfield.com/p_158XB10...T.html?tp=5684

I like the look of the clarion better, but the sony definitely performs better. For both, I like that you can modify all the lighting to match your interior.

I also just noticed this one.. I think this would look pretty sweet too

http://wwv.crutchfield.com/p_020CX50...5.html?tp=5684

As for the storage space comment.. I just meant an extra cubby for my ecig/juice/phone/keys/wallet/work badge etc.

I'm not worried about trunk space I just figured if I were getting really nice door subs it wouldn't be necessary to put a sub in the trunk.

For the record, the other day I made a trip to home depot and came back with 11 12"x12" concrete slabs, 2 bags of sand, and a several tools in my trunk.. so it can carry more than you think :)

I just can't justify paying more for inferior quality. It's not that I'm worn out with installs, it's that I'm worn out with research and reading from all the other mods and from doing it 11 hours a day at work. I guess what I really want is for someone to provide a build that is equivalent or superior to the OEM+ systems for less money. I can figure out how to get it installed or use the difference to pay a shop to do it.

I just don't even begin to understand things like how many watts I need to power what speakers or if I really need 10 band equalizer or if 3 will be fine, or any of this technical stuff.

No arguments here. I did not care for the stock HU, but until this post I hadn't seen a compelling reason to ditch yours. Now I do. For what it's worth, a better design on the touchscreen makes a night and day difference with trying to hit the right spot on the screen while bouncing down the road. The interface on my Pioneer is 1000% better and totally usable whereas I was constantly hitting the wrong button on the stock.

So, out of the 3 radios you linked to, I like the Sony. It has a 10 band EQ, active HP/LP crossovers, and is bundled with a digital 40x4 amp. That saves you the cost of adding a small amp to do the exact same thing.

Nawwww, I hear ya. I just thought it was funny that we're so starved for usable space inside that car that a pocket under a single DIN radio actually matters in our world. :D

So... "door subs" is a bit of a misnomer, you really won't find such beasts except in very rare cases. Kicker makes a 6 3/4" "subwoofer" but in 99.9% of cases, a door speaker is a driver (sometimes called a "woofer"), suitable for mid-bass and midrange, where the vast majority of your music frequencies are. The tweeter fills out the very top, and the sub fills out the bottom.

Of course you can certainly get by without a sub, but for the type of music you like and wanting some "punch" -- a sub would be a good idea.

How about something like this:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...e-R1675X2.html

Before you say "Geez, those are cheap!" -- the reviews are very good, if we're to believe the Internet masses' ears.

I chose those specifically because:

1. Power handling. The Sony's amp puts out 40W RMS x 4 channels. If you pair that with speakers that want 90 or 100W RMS, you're going to get less audible sound output than speakers matched to the power that's driving them. They also have a 91db sensitivity, which is quite good, meaning you're going to get more efficient performance for wattage. Two speakers, everything else exactly the same, but one with a 91db sensitivity and one with an 88db sensitivity, for example, are going to have an audible difference in sound output.

2. They're coaxial. You may end up having a different experience, but I don't like having the tweeters in the dash. The factory tweeters are so underpowered you don't notice that they suck up there. Put a set of real tweeters up there and the highs are likely to get very harsh. I just confirmed this in my own car, the JL C5's have a very smooth sounding tweeter, and I even set them down -3db on the crossover, made a mounting bracket so that I could angle them away from the windshield, and they're STILL abusively bright sounding. I think my next Saturday project is probably going to be taking the tweeters out of the dash and cutting small holes in the door kick panels to put the tweeters next to the drivers -- where they belong. It's never recommended to have tweeters that far away from the drivers, I don't know why so many car manufactures insist on doing it. Might be one reason why nobody has any respect for OEM audio systems.

3. They're wicked affordable. Don't like 'em? You're only out $40. Pull 'em out and sell them to someone else. Try something different. At least you're not eating multi-hundred dollar investments if you don't like it.

Note the frequency response: 52 - 20000 Hz I wouldn't send anything lower than 80Hz to them, really. Just because the cone will move at 52Hz doesn't mean you're going to get any respectable sound out of those speakers at that frequency. Most of your synthesized bass in electronic music is going to be under 80Hz. 80Hz can be called a "woofer" frequency, more commonly referred to as mid-bass. Anything below 80 is going to be below, or "sub" the woofer. Hence, you need a subwoofer. :D

With the budget you've saved, you can spring for a JL Stealthbox and power it with one of these: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...NVX-MVPA1.html. 300W RMS at 2 ohms is precisely the sweet spot to get magical musical bass out of the Stealthbox.

The beauty is, if you decide one piece is lacking (maybe you don't like the front speakers...) you can swap out parts to make it to your liking.

If you think you might want more power to the speakers, you can always add a separate speaker amp like that NVX 4 channel mini amp I linked previously. Those things are super nice from an ease-of-install perspective and they put out a truly astonishing amount of clean power for their size. I'm really impressed by them.

I just saw your other post, so I'll respond to that one separately...

Your poor little BRZ!!!! Was the muffler dragging? :bow: :lol:

Yeah, I can certainly understand that.

Systems like the OA+ aim to do exactly what you're asking -- take the guesswork out of a process with an insane number of variables and provide a packaged solution that tries to hit a wide audience with a wide variance of criteria.

But... the thing with this all is, as you've no doubt surmised, there's really no single right answer or silver bullet magic build. Ask 100 people the same question and you'll get 100 different answers. 4 different audio shops will give you 4 different "the only right way to do it" packages.

I can come up with numerous combinations, all of which could be within an approximate budget, and they'll have varying levels of features, installation hassles, and sound characteristics.

I started with a blank slate on my project and I listed out what I chose. I'm really happy with it. Feel free to copy my setup. :D It beats the pants off of systems in my friends cars that cost 2, 3, 5X as much. But there are probably 20 other choices I could have made that would have made me equally happy.

A starting point might be what I mentioned in the previous post... if you like that Sony HU, then build around it by matching speakers as I suggested and filling out the rest. I love the Stealthbox in the BRZ, it's just the right amount of bass and JL subs make really nice bass. Not boomy, not obnoxious... just clean, tight, well-rounded, musical bass. I'm really digging those little NVX mini amps right now. The mono amp is exactly the right amount of power for that JL sub (you'd need to set the gain and crossover correctly). The Sony HU has the ability to add another amp like that NVX 4 channel mini amp in the future if you find the included amp power insufficient or move to a set of speakers that demand more power.

It's a lot to try to get your head around. In the grand scheme of what a true audio professional knows, I don't know squat. I know just enough to get myself in trouble most of the time. Also, if you're just getting your feet wet with some of this stuff, some of the equipment you need to do it correctly might not be in your toolbox, so add that to your budget. Multimeter, oscilloscope, the right kinds of wire tools and connectors, soldering, etc. You'll be running thick gauge power wires, finding a good chassis ground, poking holes through grommets in the engine firewall, installing fuse holders near the battery, getting lots of wires to/from the front/back of the car, the list goes on.

If you go with building your own system, there are some things that you really want to get at least a cursory understand of in order to be able to set it up correctly. Setting amplifier gains properly is a BIG one, and a basic understanding of blending crossover points and using equalizers and frequency analyzers to tune the system are often-skipped steps that make the difference between spending a lot of money for something that sounds like a garbage can full of ass, and something that sings sweet and rocks your socks off.

A shop is going to want to sell you the gear they install, most won't be too keen on you walking in with gear that they didn't make money selling. You might find someone who's cool with doing a labor-only job, but they won't really be doing their best work. So, you'll be paying retail for equipment and shop rates for install. Budget goes way up. If you really want the guidance (which can be invaluable) and don't want to bog yourself down with learning how to correctly install car audio systems, it might be completely worth the extra money. They'll demo equipment for you so you can choose what you like, go over installation options, equipment choices, etc. Drop off your car, pick it up when done, and whammo -- no more audio worries (hopefully, if the shop does a good job. :party0030: )

One possible middle ground is getting it all installed and working at a basic level on your own, and then take it to a friendly local shop and ask them to dial it in and tune it for you. If they're jerks about it, move on to somewhere else.

My personal golden rule is that "you get what you pay for" isn't really always true. I've heard $500 systems that sounded like $10,000 systems, and I've heard $10,000 systems that sounded like $500 systems. I prefer to think that you should pay for what you get. Make the decision of what you want based on its merits, and then shop for how to buy it. People who buy something with the mindset that "if it costs more it must be better" are the reason for sayings like "a fool and his money are soon parted" and drive the entire business line for Monster Cables and extended warranty plans at Best Buy. Sorry if you own Monster Cables or extended warranties, no offense intended. :cheers:

Hey Keithr, awesome setup.
I love your selection of audio equipment.

Where did you end up mounting the AMP, got any pics of the trunk?
I like the Stealthbox solution because truck space in this car is pretty minimal and you don't want to take up too much space.

How was wiring all the speakers to the amp?
Any Dynamat or equivalent to reduce "shacking" of the doors etc?

Hey, I don't want to jack this thread and make it about me. I'll answer you via PM and when I get a few minutes I'll do a post with a write-up and pics.

Ended up going with this. Might mess with the door speakers and stuff later, but I figure this should hold me over.

Once you get it all installed and you're working on properly setting EQ, look into the Dayton iMM-6 calibrated mic ($18 on Amazon) and the AudioTools app from Studio Six Digital ($10 on iOS App Store). The mic is designed to work with iOS or Android, so you can put the app on your phone or tablet and get proper in-car measurements.

Its SPL measurement only goes up to 127 dB, so if you're looking for straight up SPL, I'd get a different mic. This one is designed more for frequency response so you can get your crossovers correct and account for different speaker sensitivities.

Cool, I'll definitely look into that. Thanks for the tip.

Please!
You are now my go to guy for audio info.

Fyi.

http://studiosixdigital.com/audio-ha...ted-microphon/

I would pony up and buy a nicer mic and use REW and a Windows laptop. Assuming you have a Windows laptop a decent mic is under $100 and REW is free. AVS forum has all the info you could ever need on how to use the mic and REW.

Oh yes, I love AVS Forum. A nicer mic is definitely preferable, but for a one-time use for car stereo I wouldn't really worry about it. Especially in our cars where the noise floor is so high. If he was setting up his home theater or building and testing speakers and crossovers, then yes. Spend the money and get a better mic. For myself, I would get a UMIK-1.

Well....................there's your first mistake.

:lol:

Really though, I'm just an OCD engineer who over-analyzes and over-researches everything. :D

I will post a write-up, I took lots of pictures along the way hoping they might prove useful to someone in the future. I just have not had any time to sit down and pull the info together. I can't say *when* I'll get to it, but I will. In the meantime, I will happily answer any specific questions to the best of my ability. I never pretended to be a "real pro." But, since doing my system I've had very sincere compliments from 3 very respectable high-end shops who've seen my car for one reason or another, so I guess I'm not a complete idiot.

Good choices, one note of caution, though...

That amp is actually not rated for 2 ohm mono operation. The manual explicitly says not to do that, and the Stealthbox is a 2 ohm mono load.

While it may /work/, you're going to be operating outside the specified parameters of that amp (warranty void). You're also going to be sending way more power than the sub was built to handle. Before anyone chimes in with "set the gain all the way down" -- that's not the correct way to solve this problem. It's still a 2 ohm load, and the amp is likely to overheat and, depending on how you install it and how hard you drive the system, you may cause permanent damage to the amp and/or sub.

For basically the same money, I really think this is a better/safer choice:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...NVX-MVPA1.html

...or another amp of similar RMS power, rated stable for 2 ohm mono operation. It will be a much more appropriate match for the sub's specifications. If you're worried that it won't be enough power -- it will. Trust me. If you set your gain correctly, you can get 400W RMS+ out of it without clipping or distortion, which is EXACTLY perfect for that sub.

A class D amp will also run a lot cooler and typically be quite a bit smaller (physically) for equivalent power output, making installation a WHOLE lot easier too.

Yeah I already figured out I got the wrong amp. Luckily Crutchfield has a good return policy, so I'm just going to buy an amp from the place that's doing the install. Also getting door speakers from them.

I got in a hurry because I decided I wanted to get this done by Saturday for the twisted sisters group drive here in SA, so I just picked one so I could get the order in. I'll stick with my head unit and sub, have them provide the amp and door speakers, do the install, and remove the rear speakers as I hear they are useless anyway.

They said they'd do the install for 100 bucks, and they got really good yelp reviews. My roomate also bought his system from them and had them install it, he was happy with them.

I'll report back on Friday and let you know what happens and how it turns out.

$100?? Where are they mounting the amp?

$100 is downright cheap. Let us know how it turns out!

Change of plans. I decided that place was a little shady, and since it's going to rain all weekend I think the twisted sisters run is postponed, so I've got some time and am not going to rush this.

I'm sticking with the JL stealthbox, and the pioneer head unit which both arrived today.

I'm debating whether or not to keep that 4ohm 2 channel amp, as my buddy said it would be great for the door speakers and to just get a 2nd for the Sub. Also haven't even begun looking for an amp but I'd like to keep it around 100-150. (Edit: Something like this would probably be what I need for the sub right? http://www.crutchfield.com/p_777M150...ce-M-1500.html)

I'm debating sound deadening, in terms of what kind to use, to do it myself or include with install, where to do it, or if I should do it at all. There's a thread on here somewhere where someone said they used equivalent materials from home depot for a fraction of the cost, I'll have to dig that one up.

I'm also still planning on removing the rear speaker.

I found another place that looks a little more reputable, and the bad reviews that do come up have been responded to by the owner very professionally, offering to correct the issues and on one of them even a 25% discount on their next job. They want 150 for the basic install, which sounds a little more realistic to me.

The other place, I saw a review that said they scratched up his interior.. and with these scratch happy interiors our cars have that really scares me. There were several reviews that said they just didn't know what they were doing too, so I'm staying away from that.

Anyway.. I'm in the market for an amp to power the stealthbox, door speakers, and sound deadening, and appreciate any advice.

I'd get the NVX mentioned earlier in this thread. It'll do the job nicely and it has a very small footprint, so you can tuck it anywhere. I've got my sub amp sitting right next to my door amp.

For the doors, consider an Alpine KTP-445U. You can bridge it to 2 channels at 90w at 4 ohms, which will be perfect for a decent 6.5 in the doors.

And if you want to keep all the 3.5s in the cabin, another 445U running as four channel would do very nicely.

It's fine from a power perspective, but consider this... that's a big amp. It's 15-1/4" x 9-13/16" x 2-1/8". Where you gonna put it?

If you were to keep the Pioneer amp for your front speakers, not only is the power complete overkill for most of the speakers you'd be considering, but it's also pretty hefty: 13-3/4" x 2-1/2" x 8-1/2". We don't have a lot of space in our cars to hide amps without extensive custom work and expense. So, it's either really expensive to do it clean, or it's really ghetto looking.

Those are both also class AB amps. AB amps make good sound (most of the time) but they tend to run hot. So, not only do you need to make sure you have lots of physical space to mount the things, but you have to make sure you have adequate airflow around them so they don't cook.

Also, I don't see anything saying that the M-1500 is CEA 2006 certified. CEA 2006 is an industry rating standard to ensure that amplifier manufacturers aren't lying. Ever seen a 1500W amp for $50? Yeah, there's a lot that goes into amplifier power and many manufacturers of budget amps were known for inflating their claims and producing garbage that would damage your equipment.

If you're looking for advice, here's mine: Return the Pioneer amp, don't get the M-1500.

Get something Class D. They're smaller, more efficient, draw less power off your car's electrical system, and run a lot cooler.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, for your sub:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...NVX-MVPA1.html

Just to reiterate, look at the physical size, and look at the power output. Look at how perfectly it matches to the power rating for your JL Stealthbox. Your Pioneer head unit is going to put out a quality 4V pre-out signal, and your installer should be able to tune your gain to get 400W RMS out of that little amp with no problem at all. It's going to run very cool, being Class D, and it's going to be **MUCH** easier to find a place to install it.

Now, for other options...

That's fine, your prerogative. Personally, I like having some rear fill, but others don't.

If you're set on nixing the rears, you only need 3 channels. You can get a good 4-channel Class D amp that will let you bridge to 3 channels -- be aware that not all 4 channel amps can do this, or, I should say, some *can* but you *shouldn't*, others flat out won't work.

Or, you can get a 3 channel amp.

The JL Audio XD500/3v2 is a favorite of mine. There are others, of course, just be careful to know exactly the specs on what you're getting. Quality is worth paying for.

The JL amp will fit under your trunk carpet on the passenger side, all you have to do is cut out a little of the styrofoam. My XD700/5v2 fit there beautifully and the 3 channel is almost 2 inches smaller. There are pics on other threads of people who have put the 3-channel in, here's my XD700/5v2:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/pictu...pictureid=9181

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/pictu...pictureid=9182

Alternatively, you can pick up the matching NVX 4 channel amp I've previously mentioned: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...NVX-MVPA4.html

You'll have 2 extra channels to add rear speakers someday should you decide you want them, or if you ended up going with front speakers that needed more power, you can bridge the amp to 2 channels. Wouldn't be necessary with most speakers that'll be looking for 60-90W RMS.

Even though it's 2 amps, they're both tiny and would be a cinch to install almost anywhere.

If you're looking to do this in stages, I'd emphatically recommend that route. Start with the NVX mono amp for your your sub, down the road you can add the other NVX for your new front speakers.

I will say this though, if your plan is to add an amp down the road for front speakers, wire for it now. Run a 4 AWG power wire and 4 AWG ground and get a distribution block to feed 8 AWG to the NVX amp. That way, when the time comes for the other amp, you don't need to run another power wire off your battery, you can get a second 8 AWG off the dist. block. I'll watch as others say you need 2 AWG or 0 AWG, but, you don't. For the amount of power you'll need, 4 AWG is more than enough.


I recommend you do it. The extent to which you do it is up to you. I did pretty much the whole car. Do you NEED to do that? Depends on what you're looking for. I wanted to cut down road noise and "tighten up" the ambient noise inside the cabin as well as improve the audio system's sound quality.

I suggest you read through the http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/ website first -- there's a lot of extremely valuable information there to help you understand what each method and each area of the car entails, and the benefits of each. You can email Don off the contact page and he will work with you to devise a plan that best meets your needs. He's a really top-notch guy to work with.

If you pay a shop to do it, the labor costs can add up real quick and you'll want to make sure they are well-versed in real sound deadening -- a lot of audio shops just want to slap some Dynamat on your doors and call it a day. There are a lot more places inside your car that are going to make noise other than just your doors.

Yeah, I've seen it, and I researched it quite a bit....and then I bought my stuff from Don. Yes, it cost quite a bit more. But, with the Home Depot kind of stuff, as you'll find, it's much harder to know exactly what you're getting. You don't want CLD tiles with asphalt adhesive, as you're certain to find at HD because they're meant for roofing. MLV (mass-loaded vinyl), for example, can have different chemical makeup for the vinyl and you could be introducing VOC's or other harmful fumes into your car, because those products maybe weren't intended for enclosed space use. You could also get funky smells from construction-grade materials.

Don's very careful about the materials and manufacturing. You can trust his stuff, and I've been very happy with it and with his service.

Caveat Emptor.

Even $150 is pretty cheap, and I'm surprised they're quoting you anything without knowing exactly what gear you want installed and exactly how you want it installed. I'd be leery of cookie-cutter pricing and potentially a cookie-cutter install job.

I had a shop here quote me over $1000 in labor to do my setup. Granted, mine was a bit more involved than yours is (at this stage), but, really, assuming your "phase 1" install is 50% of what mine was (you're still doing the head unit, amp (or amps), and stealthbox), you still need wiring, you still need the amp located somewhere nice (I wouldn't let them jam it under a passenger seat like many places want to do...), 50% is still a $500 or so install.

I chose to do it myself because not only could I save the money, but I could be as slow, meticulous, and methodical as I wanted to be. Any shop, especially a bargain price, is just going to want the get the job done and out the door quickly.

Caveat Emptor.

Thanks for the detailed reply, I went ahead and ordered the NVX MVPA1 for the sub. I'm not willing to pay 500 for the one for the door speakers though.. trying to stay within a 2 thousand dollar budget.

The shop did ask me what kind of car I have and what I'm planning to install. The 150 was just an estimate for doing the sub, head unit, and amp. He said he'd need me to bring the car in to get into specifics with door speakers, sound deadening, and anything beyond the basic sub install.

I have a buddy that's willing to do it with me, but he already did header and exhaust with me and I both feel bad for taking up his time and energy, and am tired of f'ing with it myself. I'll probably swing by and check this place out, see what kind of vibe I get, find out the total price, and take it from there.

As for the 2nd amp, is it really necessary, or do you think the head unit can handle the front speakers? Keeping in mind I'm not the type to ride around blasting music at obnoxious levels. I'm not looking to show off, just have good quality sound for my own personal DD enjoyment. It will be kept at a reasonable volume 99% of the time.

Thanks again.

You won't be disappointed.

??

I'm guessing you mean the JL Audio 3-channel? In that case, it wasn't just for the door speakers, that would have been for door speakers *and* sub. So, a little more than the combined cost for the two individual small amps.

It never hurts to ask to see the actual shop area and take a look at any cars that they have in-progress at that time. You can watch the installer work for a few minutes and get a feel for their level of care (or not). If the shop won't let you watch their guy(s) or look at vehicles being worked on, they're hiding something from you, and that should be taken as a sign. Every quality shop I've ever been in was glad, nay, eager to show me what they were all about. I spoke directly with the installers, rather than funneling everything through a showroom sales guy.

Get an amp. You'd be doing yourself a disservice to run quality speakers off of head unit power. It might say 50Wx4, but if you look at the real specs (*edit: the manual shows 22W RMS, but I've seen a few other spec sheets that say it's 17W RMS -- either way, it's not nearly enough). Most quality speakers in a reasonable price range are going to want 60-90W or so RMS.

Remember, power is not necessarily about loud, it's about clean. Yes, volume is a factor, but you want adequate power to drive your speakers efficiently with room to spare (headroom) so that you get a clean, strong signal into your speakers so they can produce clean, quality sound. When an amplifier (whether it's standalone or built into a head unit) is running at or near its limits, distortion goes way up and the amp can start to clip. Clipping is bad, without getting too deep into it, just imagine trying to run a power saw when your electricity keeps stuttering on/off. You're going to get crappy performance since the saw motor can't get constant power to keep the blade spinning correctly, and you're going to burn up the saw's motor because it's working too hard to try to keep up. Distortion and clipping are both very bad in audio, and they will not only cause an audible degradation of quality (in layman's terms, it'll sound like shit), but they can cause permanent damage to your equipment as well.

It's kind of like buying an awesome HDTV and then only ever hooking up your old VCR to it -- you'll not be getting anywhere near the performance out of that TV since the signal coming into it sucks.

Ok so I got the JL stealthbox sub, the amp you recommended for the sub, and already have the head unit.

So how does this look to finish things off? This will only cost me an extra 99 dollars if I return the other amp.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_105AX32....html?tp=35757
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TSD1...TS-D1602R.html

I have not heard these speakers in person, so, really can't say how good they sound. They get good reviews... so, there's that. In the absence of being able to hear them yourself, I suppose general consensus is better than nothing.

Well, the specs on it really don't impress me. Fixed crossover points, somewhat low SNR, and the power is on the lower end of where you'd want to be with those speakers, which have an 88dB sensitivity so they're not the most efficient speakers in the world. You'll want to make sure you have some headroom on the power.

If it was me, I would get the NVX MVPA4 that I linked.

Barring that, I'd probably get the Alpine KTP-445U and bridge it to 90x2.

For what it's worth, you can get those Pioneer speakers at Sonic Electronix for 1/2 of what they want for them at Crutchfield:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...TS-D1602R.html

The Alpine amp at Crutchfield is is 149.99 so you could do an even swap for your Pioneer, and then get the speakers from Sonic, saving yourself some money for a better setup than the JVC amp.

I have the KTP-445u
its pretty awesome, you can get it for about $100 some places. it wires to the Factory Amp harness easily too, which saves some effort.

Yeah, the flexibility for install options is nice. He's getting a nice Pioneer head unit, so he'll want to use the proper 4V pre-outs off the Pioneer and delete the factory amp entirely.

I have a pioneer 5600bhs, and I'm still using the line level inputs into my 445u, mostly because that's how it was originally wired (before I got the 5600bhs), but it works just fine.

I made my own speaker once from a kit I got at Radio Shack.

It worked just fine, too.

Whatever rocks your socks...

:w00t:

Pshhh, as far as I am aware there's not an appreciable difference beyond the minor risk that you now have 2 amps clipping range to worry about, the HU and the amp itself, but as long as you don't push either it's logically the same.

though TBH if I was doing a fresh install I would prob just run the RCAs as I have RCAs for my Subwoofer.

Don't mind if I do!

Ordered both.

You da man.

Keep us posted on the install and how it all turns out!

:party0030:

Finally got this install done.. you were right. I ended up going somewhere different, but it's all the same around here. 100-150 for a head unit/amp/sub, little more for the other amp and speakers, and sketchy shops doing half ass work. I was literally looking for a place that would charge me more just so I'd feel safe with them, but couldn't, they were all just as cheap and sketchy as the last one.

I'll probably be creating a new thread tonight for advice on how to approach this problem, but just wanted to bring this thread back from the dead to give your "I told ya so"

They mangled my interior trim pieces.. 2 that don't require tools to remove, and one that didn't need removing at all. These are the aftermarket black trim pieces I had to order too, not the ugly silver ones. (aftermarket on my 2013 at least)

They kept my old speakers, the instruction manuals for the new stuff, and all the boxes.

They didn't hook up the usb and aux to the new unit.

There's a popping noise when I turn the car off, possibly from a bad ground.

I'm sure I'm missing a couple things, but you get the idea. So now I've got to figure out if I want to address it with them or just leave them 1 star reviews, if I want to fix it myself, and how I'm going to fix it.