Test drove a '15 BRZ, bought a '13 FR-S ... WAY DIFFERENT
 

Decided I should get an '86 used, just in case the car turns out not to be my cup of tea. Boy was I surprised at the lack of ride quality in this FR-S after driving it around a little more.

Intended use: Daily driver, mixed city/fwy. Some days 10 minutes, some days 60 minutes each way. Grocery beater, something that I won't mind bringing to the gym as my other cars are just too rare to beat on.

I'm actually pretty APPALLED that the suspension is so dang brutal in the (older) FR-S. When I test drove the '15 BRZ it was firm but not rough. I actually LOVED it and that's saying a lot. The tire grip, the motor, the interior noise level, it's all to my satisfaction but wow that rear suspension reminds me of my lowered Miata on GC track suspension. It's totally different... set up for sharp handling and auto-x but probably not as good of a daily driver. Hats off to you guys (and your butts) that can handle this all day err day. Maybe I'm just getting old.

AM I CRAZY or is this drastic difference real?

Edit: Car has 22k miles and previous owner only drove it for 1.5 years... car was babied.

Are you sure it was babied? Private sale or from a dealer?

Barring having the previous owner swear on his mothers grave and take a blood oath yes, it was babied. I used to be a buyer for a car dealership and this car is legit.

One thing I didn't think about is perhaps the difference in seats. I test drove a '15 BRZ limited and this thing has cloth seats.

You did know that the FRS and BRZ suspensions are different spring rates right?

Are you sure it is on stock suspension??
The FRS aint no glide on a cloud ride but with stock suspension it shouldn't be as bad as you are describing either.

I knew but had no idea it would be so drastic. Lots of people talk about how the two cars feel almost the same. They feel very different. I feel like the front is good but the rear needs more rebound damping.

I need to also make a confession that I'm coming from very German cars so my butt is probably used to the luxury.

Mine (FRS2013) could use more damping on the rear, but that's above 80-90mph... At that speed also need brake upgrade to avoid heat soak/overheating.

Maybe you should go test drive a 2014/2015 FRS at a dealership and see if you still have the same opinion about the suspension. I dont think there were any changes made to the suspension between model years for the FRS.

For the BRZ I think the 2015 improved ride quality even more, not sure how, its just what I've read a few times around here.

EDIT: I saw your WTB thread lol. Might want to look at this: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84230

They did tweak the suspension a bit on the 2015 FRS... it was really the only "performance-oriented" upgrade they made since the first model year.

Apparently, they made the FRS ride similar to the BRZ. Not quite as tail-happy and a touch softer for daily driving.

That's what they tell us anways... @Tcoat broke down the differences in this thread: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73739

There's some pretty good first-person, real-world experience impressions in there if you're interested.

The only other performance upgrade in the 2015 FRS/BRZ that I know of is the factory turbo... Should've opted for the new one man.

:lol:

So the OP's best bet for a good comparison would be to find another 2013/2014 FRS owner, or find a dealer that still has a 2014 on the lot I guess.

And a lot more weight. German cars are bloated and heavy now. That makes for a much more luxurious feel and smoother ride. You have to do a total mind wipe once you get used to and start enjoying that in order to appreciate the light and tight that you get from the FR-S. A lot of the early adopters could not adjust and scurried back to the lap of luxury.

Is the fr-s still on stock wheel and tire size ?
Many owner went with 18" and that would make it harsher

And as mentioned already the spring rate are not the same for the frs and brz

Spec from a quick search from 2012 post (not sure if its still accurate but it should):

Front OE Spring Rate:
Subaru BRZ 27 N/mm (153 lbs/in)
Scion FR-S 23 N/mm (131 lbs/in)

Rear OE Spring Rate:
Subaru BRZ 34 N/mm (195 lbs/in)
Scion FR-S 37 N/mm (211 lbs/in)

So there is a difference but I'm not gonna try to elaborate any more on this (already plenty of info on this forum about that)

You forgot the AWD on the BRZ!
And the shark fin antenna that gives the aero equivalent of a 20hp increase!

Actually OP's follow up post about being used to German cars does make sense since even a stock FRS will feel rough compared to most of them.

With my RSR lowering springs I cringe in fear every time I approach a set of railroad tracks, pot hole or crack in the road but I wouldn't trade them for anything!

Dont bitch, you picked the right one as the FR-S has the better suspension set up ;)

I feel OP's pain. I always felt the suspension was a bit stiff. I can visibly see my front end bobbing around on the freeway because of the stiffness and what I assume is lack of dampening. Heck I put coilovers on my miata last weekend and I set the dampening to just under full hard and it felt the same as my FR-S.. I was actually kind of bummed because I am trying to get my miata ready for autocross and I wanted it to be stiff as a rock.. Oh well it doesnt rollover like a pig going around corners anymore so that is nice lol

I don't know what the brz feels like, but I love the suspension in this car. Yes it is firm. Yes passengers have complained, but for me it's awesome. It's almost as good as the auto-x suspension setup I had in my EK civic. Sometimes I do see the front end bobbing on certain roads and I just smile. Just another example of how this car is so perfect from the factory and needs next to no mods to make me happy.

Actually it's the other way around, it's the stiff rebound damping that does the bobbing. That is why this car responds quite well to stiffer springs, more performance in compression (less pitch and roll, bit firmer) but actually becomes calmer and more followsome in rebound.

Stock '13 frs suspension is set up very stiff. I hated going over small bumps and cracks because my foot would slip around on the gas pedal from the harsh bounces, he is not lying at all. Depends on the road conditions. My coilovers now have a softer set up so its a lot lower but still a wayyy more comfortably ride.

I didn't read the whole thread, so forgive me if I am repeating.


Yes, the suspension calibrations are different, mostly in the rear, if memory serves.


It makes the FR-S more "tail-happy" cornering wise. Which is my preference.


But that's why they make two different versions!. You pays your money, you gets your choice.


Anyway, welcome aboard!

Yep, when we put RCE yellows on my son's FR-S with stock struts we both felt that the car rode better and absorbed bumps and rough payment better. That is with about a 3/4 inch drop and stiffer spring rate.

I guess it depends the application? The 2015 suspension has even more rebound force! I can post the drawings if any one is interested. This was to improve the performance in race tracks. Additionally, they changed the internal oil to a thinner one to improve the comfort.

Also on RCE Yellows here, to the same effect...

Assuming the car is in perfect working order I am surprised you notice any difference at all. As pointed out in an earlier page the difference in spring rates is relatively small and the damping rates are also minutely different. Top Gear did a blindfold test to see if they could tell the difference after a few days of driving them:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/Cou...BRZ-2013-01-09

I'll put money on you misremembering the BRZ and you don't typically drive on the same roads you did a test drive at the Subaru Dealership in. Walk up to the dealership, say you're interested in upgrading, they'll be happy to let you drive the BRZ again, say it isn't different enough then immediately drive the FRS on the same loop. Decide from there.

That previous statement was in reference to the 'old' FR-S. Haven't tried the new suspension on the new '15 or the new(?) BRZ suspension which are, as reported here, supposedly better - problem solved ;)

Just want to weigh in with my quick $.02.

I bought a '15 FR-S. The rear is definitely softer than the '13. You can feel a little bit more rear body roll on twisty roads. However, as a whole it's definitely more compliant than the factory '13 suspension. It's comfortable yet firm over rough stuff and still completely capable. I DD mine and also had it on Watkins Glen for 2 days just after break-in all with bone stock suspension and didn't feel it needed anything more. It actually feels better to slide the car around too because it isn't as snappy.

One thing not suspension related, the '15 doesn't have the noticeable power dip that the 13/14's did. This is one thing that has me hesitant about getting the car tuned. I don't want it to come back. The factory seems to have done a good job with this one.

I'll be the first to call BS on the OP except that's me and I did feel what I felt ...my '15 test drive was pretty elaborate, through some mixed city/fwy driving and a mountain road (I actually test drove the same car twice at the dealership). I just never remember it porpoising or doing the bronco buck.

My Dyno isn't just my butt but also my hair. I can feel my combover shifting in the '13 whereas I never felt that in the '15 because that's an uncomfortable feeling for me. :-) yes maybe hair conditions were different but i doubt it. I am using the same hair products as I have been using for the past 6 months. I guess that's one advantage of this goddamn Justin Beiber haircut.

OP Maybe ur used one have all those whiteline bushings installed everywhere. :D

Maybe double check it?

ON the side note, I just rode in 2 13FRS this last week. Funny How they all feel better then my 15 BRZ thou.........Stock tire blows (Both of them are on Potenza RE760 S)

In before cloth looks better than alcantara and the leather gets too hot in the summer

Buys a car without a test drive.

Swears FR-S drives like crap compared to a BRZ when the soundproofing is identical and the only difference is an over steer bias vs. under steer bias at adhesion limit in BRZ (spring firmness front/rear).

I'm reading TROLL

Seriously, how come nobody ever mentioned about this?

Mine was sort of rough from factory as well. Not too bad but not a Cadillac either. But I threw in some coil overs and I have the option to adjust whenever I please. On the drift track its hard, AutoX is mixed, and when my son is in the back seat, Its as soft as possible. Mine still gets uncomfortable after say a 7 hour drive from Tucson AZ to San Diego CA but nothing to bother about. Maybe the guy before you put different springs or something in it.

Pic of Stock VS Coilovers. Right height dropped as well as spring size but Id say is not far from stock.

I just assumed I wasnt driving my car enough to notice it.

I doubt many of the 2015 MY owners have driven 2014/2013 or vice versa.

The 2015 definitely has different suspension setup. I heard they changed sway bars a bit, could be wrong. But way harder to break the back end out than it used to be, test drove a '13 with a very chill dealer employee, and when I got my '15 I realized it was noticeably different. Easily fixable with simple upgrades if you miss it. Maybe they wanted less people inside poles and trees?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

Cheers for being a good sport about it, how long between the test drive of the '15 and purchasing the '13? Memory is a VERY untrustworthy thing for most of us.

And road conditions can absolutely turn a car from a dream to a nightmare, I test drove two FRS' at two different dealerships with different road conditions and they acted totally differently, both '13s built within a few months of each other.

OP:
What about tire pressure? Excessive tire pressure can make the car feel bouncy.

Unbunch your panties, son. And learn more about suspension affecting handling, take two Midol, and report back here. Of course I test drove the FRS. I did not think the difference in handling warranted me spending 27K for a brand new BRZ Limited, however.

To the guy who suggested tire pressures --- good call.

To the other guy, I test drove the BRZ '15 about a month ago.

“unbunch your panties son " + “take 2 midol and report back here ” stealing those. Thanks lol

I've never driven an FRS, but I've always been confused by a lot of the complaints these cars get. Road noise, rough ride, rattles, issues etc. I haven't had any of these complaints myself, which makes me wonder if BRZ's in general are a little higher quality, but I don't know. I could just be less sensitive/picky than some people and I mostly drive on relatively smooth roads.

The only complaints I've had were the ugly silver trim, and the strange buzzing noise the engine makes at above 4k rpm. Oh, and the tiny tail pipes.. FRS wins there.