Toyo R1R vs Kumho Ecsta XS for DD and AutoX
 

Good afternoon guys. Google has failed to provide me the information I want so I'm coming here for first hand experiences and information I might not know about these 2 tires for DD and AutoX duties. (Please assume stock wheel size for now but any information regarding performance variance in larger sizes would be appreciated)

Which do you feel grips better during racing?
Which do you feel wears the longest?
How does it perform in rain?
Is heat cycling of DD going to degrade the tire prematurely?
Will being cold(winter storage) damage these tires like the Toyo R888?

I'm more concerned with how well they perform as a DD as I've already seen some testing that "proved" the Ecsta was slightly better on course than the Toyo.

I don't know about the Toyo's but I ran the the Kumho Ecsta XS on my Mini. IMO they're not the most comfortable for DD, decent amount of grip, not bad in the wet, pretty good treadwear, overall OK for the money. Would I run them again? No, there are better alternatives.

Hope this helps.

What do you feel is a better alternative and why? What kind of tread wear(mileage) you get out of them? What I've read only indicates a few possible choices for my requirements

I had about 30k on the Kumho's and they can probably go another 15k of DD. I did not track the car. Being in Texas, I can run summer tires year round so my choice is Michelin PSS. Costco has great deals on them most of the time. The Kumho's did not feel as smooth and were louder after 20k. I have not run Conti DWS but would give them a shot since I hear good things about them.

Good info. Thanks for the input. Anyone else have an option?

Toyo r1r and the Khumos are in different autoX classes now, but in past seasons even the r1rs amongst themselves were not created equally.

Which tire sizes in Khumos were "proven" to be faster around the course?

Both are great tires and for performance purposes, your driving skill will determine which is the better tire.

I believe they were 215/x/r15 I don't remember the height but it was on a civic. Last year was my first time racing and I slid constantly, that's why I'm looking for tires. I didn't expect the Ecsta to make me a pro instead of the R1R but no point in not getting the best if it's the same price etc. Seems like the Toyos are a bit pricier.

Which of the 2 is in the lower class? I don't know what my mods add up to now since I've added coils and such but I don't want to rank up if I don't have to.

That's an old test. I know the XS for a while was supposed to have the highest dry grip of the "Extreme Performance" tires for a while, but I would bet that the RS3V2 and ZII StarSpec both would beat it in the dry now, while also having way more wet grip.

^^ Agreed, the XS is a few years old now and isn't as good (comparatively) as it used to be.

From your expectations, Toyo R1R is the better choice. It's much better in the rain than the XS and wear longer as well. From my experience, the R1R does overheat faster, but it was on a heavier platform (GD STI) and mostly track events. If if it's mostly DD/autox with the lighter twins, you're less likely to run into these issues, as it's very popular among miata and e30 crowd. Like other mentioned, both are fairly outdated tires and there's newer better alternatives.

I've been googling around and have yet to find anything bad about the R1Rs. I heard they wear worse than the Kumhos though. The Yokohama AD08s seem kinda pricey so they are out. Any one have any test data from last year for everyone's top street tire? Kinda almost seems like there isn't a "best" tire available

wait, you got 30k(miles?) out of Kumho XS tires, and expect to go another 15k?

I was under the impression the Kumho XS was similar to re-11a, star specs, rival, rt615k etc and would be 20k, at best...

I just might look into the XS again, if thats the case.

Yes, I was very surprised. I think I was right around 28-29k. I would say maybe 20% left. Definitely not another 15k. Sorry my math was all screwed up.:bonk: Either way, I still got good mileage out of them. This was on my Non S Mini Cooper with no track time and I was commuting about 100 miles a day.

EDIT:
Before you guys think I'm crazy for DD'ing the Kumho's with my long commute, I bought wheels with these brand new tires already mounted. :P

All tire choices are tradeoffs. Each of us like different things. So in the for what it is worth-- I have been using Yokohama Advan AD08 tires for, well since they came out.
Great dry traction and good wet (well good for a high performance tire) traction. I had them on a slightly modified Mini S. Summer DD and many weekend track car. I went through many sets and can not give a mileage guess as the track eats them at high rate. The first gen did not winter over very well (in storage). Since then no problem. I took off the stock tires when I got the BRZ and have been running them since. The only problem was on a hot day at Mid Ohio it did roll the rubber off the tread and got greasy. Since then got some other track tires, but still drive and like them for DD.

Well tire rack has the Ventus RS3 v2 for 20$ less than the others so I'll probably get those. Thanks for the input guys

I thought like you did but checking tire rack there are a quite a few people with 20k+ on these. If only they were 200tw I would just run these year round. Damn stx rule change....

I thought I read somewhere the R1R tread wear rating was getting updated to 200. Is that true?

Yes, its rolling out certain sizes at a time. I was referring to the Kumho's though

Yeah just reminded me of the R1R

I have the XS that I use for track days, and they work great for that. As a DD tire, they're not great: loud, not great wear characteristics, and notoriously bad in the rain.

I only got about 8k miles life out of my Kumho Ecsta XS - That's with only 1 track day and all other mileage normal daily driving. This is what they looked like after ~ 8k miles:

http://vracer111.smugmug.com/Cars/St...S-slicks-L.jpg


I have noticed one thing about the FR-S and my driving style, the rear tires wear twice as fast as the fronts - I HAVE to rotate the tires within every 2k miles to keep wear reasonably even. My Kumho Ecsta Sport LE's are almost as worn down in about the same mileage as well...but they are a much better daily driver tire with phenomenal wet weather handling.

To OP, just get a good inexpensive tire from the Maximum Performance category to get the best possible daily driver tire and just work on solidifying the fundamentals. You can worry about which higher performance tire is the better tire to have for class once it's really something that is stopping any further progress. I wouldn't recommend Kumho XS as a daily driver tire when Kumho has the cheaper Sport LE which is better in basically every aspect. You give up dry grip...but gain phenomenal wet weather ability while also being better in the cold (below 40 - XS grip starts falling off a cliff when you push below 40 degrees...)

How much noise do the Kumho Ecsta XS produce? The official dB rating is not much higher than many other tires, and definitely lower than the AD08R. Is it comparable to directional tires?