E36 M3 vs FR-S vs S2000 (for me)
 

Okay guys just going to get your opinions on this. I'm currently looking for a new sports car and it will be my first RWD manual car (im a young gent). Now the thing is I have enough to pay for the FR-S cash but the thing is i have an opportunity to invest the money at around 15-20% a year profit so I would either lease a FR-S or buy an e36/s2000 for around 10-15k. Now the thing is if i buy a M3/s2000 that money will come out of my investment funds which wouldnt be optimal. At the same time though I worked it out and leasing an FR-S would be around 500-600 a month with insurance included and I dont exactly have the highest paying job currently (good sales experience though). The lease would run 4 years and the buyout at the end would be 12000. The thing is i dont know where ill be in 4 years (living with my dad currently with little bills to pay only my car payments on my accord v6 coupe) so I have to factor in that i could be paying rent in a couple years to boot. Also my dad seems hesitant for me to lease one so I have to deal with that (he would be helping me lease it so i need his full support). I did drive the FR-S in auto format and I loved it but at the same time it would be a huge financial move on my part to buy it (dropping all the cash is now out of the question as it would be a very poor investment especially when i have an opportunity to make some big capital gains). And I absolutely am buying a sports car so not buying one is out of the picture. Oh and fuel costs and practicality arent a huge deal but do help either car out for my pick. Opinions guys?

I've had an e36 M3 for a little over two years now, so I can at least give my input on that car.

The back seat is usable. I've had friends sit back there for over an hour on a trip, and I got no complaints. Insurance might be rough for you. The e36 isn't unreliable, but it does need regular maintenance. Gas mileage is terrible, but that's partially my driving.

I don't understand leasing a car, but that's just me. And if you have a place you think you can reliably get 15-20% growth per year, I'd drive the cheapest beater I could live with and dump all of my money into that growth outlet, because that is absurd.

What kind of investment lets you make 15-20% a year, and how do I get in? ;)

I would say spend the $15,000- you don't NEED an FR-S, even though it is a nice car. Stay with your Accord, or buy the M3, or even the S2000. If you really, really want the FR-S, you can sell the M3 for a small loss in a year, and buy the FR-S then. You would still probably come out on top as investing the extra $10,000 you would save in the mean time will give you an extra $1,500-$2,000 to play with when you are more sure of what your living situation will be.

No amount of car can settle the queasy feeling in your stomach when you are struggling to make ends meet.

apple stock up 69% year over year.....get in !!

buy an na miata, invest everything else and then in a couple years buy the frs cash. or just invest it all and buy the frs now and just use the interest gained to make thepayment

Yea im kinda leaning on an m3 or s2000 for now. There's a beautiful m3 for 10k that I'll take a look at. Ive always been in love with bmw's since i was a kid so an m3 would probably be ontop of the s2000. The investment is in the building industry and I got into a building company that's doing alot of the largest housing development in Canada so I can invest with them for atleast 2-3 years. So i get a return every time they sell a house. I actually already have money in it but I'm just adding to the amount.

Though a perennial gainer, the simple fact is that no single company is a sure thing. The best you're going to get is a fund managed by dedicated individuals who are intimately aware of the leading indicators for when to get in and when to get out of a given stock or index. I've done well working with what I know about the small handful of stocks I trade, but the unconditional guarantee of 15-20% is Madoff-esque.

If you test drive the M3, you'll buy it. They're wonderful. I take it it's the 240hp and not the rare euro-spec (you guys got ~45 of those). Get a pre-purchase inspection done no matter what. You'll save yourself some heartache. I'll be honest, I'm going to regret selling my M3. It's been my dream car for ages, and I've gotten nothing but joy out of every time I've driven it. I don't know what body hosts autocrossing in Canada, but regardless of whether you go M3 or S2k, get that beast on the track. That's where they really come alive.

You said you're young, so buy a 2 seater convertible while you still can!

S2000 if you okay without space. But you in VC not the best for a Daily driver.

First RWD manual car? I would not recommend the S2k. At the very least look for the later ones with the revised suspension and 2.2L motor.

Or get a RX8 for compromise.

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/pm...969288024.html there's the M I was looking at.

Im actually not located right in vancouver but an hour away in a rural city so its not a problem.

That M3 has standard side mirrors(not the M3 specific aero mirrors). I would be cautious, that there are more problems with the car.

It say custom rebuilt. Sounds like its a salvaged title.

I'd rather pay a few thousand down and finance an FR-S at 2.9% or thereabouts than pay $10-15k out of pocket for a used car; that way you can keep a majority of your money invested and earning profit while you drive around a brand new, warrantied car with free service for the first two years. We joke that BMW stands for "Bring Money With you", because when something breaks it ain't cheap! The S2000 is probably easier on the wallet for repairs, but you can't beat that free service and warranty. Also keep in mind that the FR-S gets over 30mpg while the M3 and S2000 struggle to get 20; that will pay dividends in the long run, too. If you lease it your monthly payments will be lower but if you buy it out at the end you'll pay more in the long run than if you finance it over 60 months.

If I had to pick, I would go with the S2000 if it was a well taken care of example. All years of the S2000 had no major problems unless you consider the plastic window an issue.

IMO if you had to buy a sports car and tight on cash, go with a cheap Miata.

I thought housing market was gonna dip in toronto/vancouver? If you can actually get 15-20% then it doesn't really make sense to dispose of that money right away.

Seriously, I would stay far, far away from that car.

would not touch that m3

says rebuilt but lacks detail or really any info or any kind

s2k I would not recommend if you want a DD or have no exp driving rwd cars they can be a handful at higher speeds but they are beautiful cars and awesome to drive just not livingable for me at least

I say get a Miata and learn how RWD cars feel stack cash thru your investment then when the hype dies down and more FRS are avaiable then get one

Can I get in on this investment hahaha damn


I have heard this before and still have no clue how thats possible then again I'm not a BMW guy at all. (love the e46 tho was originally looking at picking up a LSB e46 M3 before I got my FRS)

Thanks for pointing that out i totally missed it! Well maintenance wouldnt be too bad on an e36 m3 because i would try to do most myself and you can get parts pretty cheap.

And for people asking in on the investment, I'm lucky I got in. Its my dad who owns a lighting business and became friends with the builders and he got in on it so I made him a deal that he can have some profit if i dumped my money into it and he agreed (i think it might be more like 20-25% a year but he said i would make 15% with his profit taken out) But yea 80% of millionaires make their first million on the housing industry for a reason. Im one lucky SOB lol! Yea thats what i was thinking regarding the leasing the FR-S but my investment is only garunteed for 2-3 years and the lease is 4 at 5.35% and plus then theres a buyout at the end so I would have to pay the sum of a used car at the end anyways (i would buy it out cash) so theres a year or two there thats not garunteed cashflow so i might not beable to deal with the payments unless i use my investment money anyways. The FR-S would be my first pick though but i might have to wait till either i can get one used (good luck) or settle with an m3 or s2000 (which is still badass). And regards to the miata, i dont like them enough to own one lol.

Dumb question - what will you be using this car for? What are your mod plans, if any?

If you're looking for something financially predictable I'd rule the Bimmer out straight away regardless of whether it's going to be a track car or a daily unless - and only if - you either personally know a mechanic or can do most routine car-related stuff DIY style. Most of the guys I know who swear by Bimmers also have grease under their fingernails. Otherwise I'd stay well clear.

If you're looking for a track car I have to agree with Fatoni - just get an NA8 Miata with some mild Spec Miata style mods on it and enjoy beating it to bits, totally carefree.

I've been down the road of highly modded dual use street/track cars far too many times in the past and although I enjoyed it my finances are pretty screwed as a result. Since you seem to be young and fiancially savvy I'd strongly suggest that you define some limits before you buy anything. Both the S2k and the FR-S would be great cars to own and both will be extremely tempting to modify. Mark my words!

Personally I like the idea of leasing the FR-S since it'd be under warranty for a good long time, meaning that the running costs would be fairly predictable. The S2K is a great car but it'll be long in the tooth in another few years. They have an excellent reputation for reliability but you ought to keep in mind that everything and anything maintenance-wise would be coming out of your pocket.

FR-S might be better on Vancouver's crappy roads too. ;)

Dumb question - what will you be using this car for? What are your mod plans, if any?

If you're looking for something financially predictable I'd rule the Bimmer out straight away regardless of whether it's going to be a track car or a daily.

Of you're looking for a track car I have to agree with Fatoni - just get an NA Miata with some mild Spec Miata style mods on it and enjoy beating it to bits, totally carefree.

I've been down the road of highly modded dual use street/track cars far too many times in the past and although I enjoyed it my finances are pretty screwed as a result. Since you seem to be young and fiancially savvy I'd strongly suggest that you define some limits before you buy anything. Both the S2k and the FR-S will be extremely tempting to modify.

Personally I like the idea of leasing the FR-S since it'll be under warranty for a good long time. The S2K is a great car but it'll be long in the tooth in another few years in e sense at epanything and everything maintenance-wise would be co ing out of your pocket.

FR-S might be better on Vancouver's crappy roads too. ;)

Keep the Honda and invest your money wisely.

Custom rebuilt from the ground up? BS. A good condition M3 does not custom rebuild anything.

Mirrors are wrong, check the vin. If it is not an M3 the Vin would give up the info better than anything. You may be buying a 325i with badging. Oh and the vin is on every panel. If this is a rebuilt wreck you can tell that too because replacements will not have the vin on it. http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=102071

I think you misunderstood what I said :P maybe I didn't word it clearly. It's my dads investment but I made a deal with him so he could take some profit of my money if he lets me in on it so he will just take a cut.

I did consider that but the thing is I LOVE driving and the Honda just doesn't cut it anymore it's an auto fwd. I also invested in a private company that's hitting the stock market so if that goes well that will be some huge gains.

Quoted, and edited a bit for first-person truth baby!
I work with BMW owners on a daily basis; there isn't a better "do everything well" car ever MADE than the E36 M3. Plus.... They are starting to go up in value. Not a bad thing.

The most disappointing car I ever drove was the S2000. Believe it or not.
Was it a very good car... Yes and no.
Did it do things better than an E30 M3, E36 M3 or RX8... or Miata (that I had at the time)... some... but it lacked something that kept me from connecting with it, and the complete lack of torque feels unnatural. Also, surprisingly the earlier AP1 is actually more fun to drive than the AP2, that statement you will see a lot of on the forums.

This is coming from somone who loves torque-less NA cars like the Miata and the AE86, yet the S2000 highlights this lack constantly- and thats another reason the FRS/BRZ is going to be a better over all car, the 2L mill, like the Si and RSX have a nice fat torque curve that makes the car feel balanced...
Oh and torque...haha wait till you drive an E36 M3.

Good luck deciding between an FT86 and E36 M3 :happy0180: you will need it I bet

I always get really confused when people say the S2000 is torqueless...it has very respectable torque below 2500, and it has the shortest gears you could ask for. Maybe it's a "feeling" thing.

Thank you sir I will need it, definetly a hard decision. And I do love torque I even noticed the lack of torque on the fr-s from my v6 accord even though the fr-s is a little faster.

Plus some of the M3 sedans have solid, non-folding rear seats for added chassis rigidity. This was not an option for the coupes.

I have an E36 M3 sedan and my roommate has an AP1 S2000 which I often drive. My favorite aspects of the S2k are the steering rack and the look of the car. The engine is fun to wind out, but the lack of torque is noticeable during daily driving. Seems like I'm always shifting to find the sweet spot.

The M3 is a very good all around car. It does everything well, although the big steering wheel/slow steering rack makes it feel like a truck after driving the S2k.
I would say skip the E36 M3 unless you REALLY love them. It's not a good car if you are just looking for a cheap fling. So many are neglected and they won't drive like an M3 should without proper maintenance. S2ks are newer and probably less maintenance intensive.

The FRS is the hot new intriguing car of the moment. I'm looking forward to seeing how it stacks up once the hype dissipates. I think if you got something else, in the back of your mind you'd always wonder about the FRS. If I was in the market for a new car, I'd strongly consider one. However, I'd just get a cheap car until a higher HP version of the FRS comes out.

I was in a AP1 and I must say for me it was torqueless feeling. But after 6k rpms it changed into a psychotic beast. It goes from feeling like a sub-compact 2L to a true sports car in acceleration.

From what I've been hearing from some old members on the s2ki forums, since they have stopped production prices have gone up a decent amount, especially for an unmolested low mileage one. I've never owned an e36 nor s2 but known friends who had them. The one who had the e36 got his for a good price, but there always was some sort of maintenance needed due to being an older car - nothing mechanically wrong with it thou. If this is going to be your daily car, the S may have trouble fitting in stuff/passengers.

In my opinion I'd stick with your current car, invest the extra you would have paid to get those extra gains and get a car after those gains are realized. Yeah it sucks, but I prefer taking those opportunities especially if they are certain. If there is more risk in the investment then I'd probably end up doing a more in depth cost/benefit analysis, but in this market 15+% gains are not too shabby especially for short term investing.

There's a big difference in terms of tq between an AP1 & AP2. A tuned 06+ feels fantastic, but might be out of your price range. The AP1 feels anemic. I wouldn't want one. I've been through a few cars and an 06+ is the best car I've had (within the price range - obviously not including Porsche / Lotus).

So to answer your question..
E36 - yes if you really like it
AP1 - no
AP2 - yes 06+

I actually found a gorgeous e30 custom with an m30 swap all done by cg motorsports that I might check out this weekend. I'll keep you guys updated.