What do you use your car for and how important is suspension to you?
 

I'm curious how people are using their BRZ/FRS in this community. :)

You can take this as a function vs. form discussion or whatever way you'd like. I know some of us are hardcore suspension geeks that show up to meets and get confused looks when we talk about corner entry understeer and dialing in 2 clicks of rebound or increasing caster etc. while other people are talking about how they painted their brake calipers or added boost fluid to their motor (jk). Suspension guys and girls are a very small niche within a very small niche....

Some of us are just getting into learning about suspension. Some of us just want a mild upgrade to keep up with the rest of their mods. Some just want a certain look.

Poll incoming.

- Andy

No auto-x or HPDE, yet. Got my BRZ in late October so all the events are done for the winter.

Suspension is very important. Having had Ground Controls on 2 previous BMWs and ASTs on my track rat miata, I know the difference between good stuff and bad stuff.

I just put a set of used GCs on my BRZ with 375/425 rates with stock sways and stock tires. Suspension rides well, but the spring rates are totally overwhelming the tires. So I need to get a wheel/tire setup stat.

This is really an interim setup until I drop the cash on Tarmacs or MCS.

Got my FRS for a daily driver that I can have some fun in. Love the way the car feels/rides/handles out of the box. Probably going to get a set of TRD springs with a set of 17x8 wheels and 225/45s all around. Want to lessen the fender to tire gap while keeping the feel/ride/handling as close as possible to stock.

I loved the way the car felt at first. Then as I got used to its limits I started realizing how unpredictable it was when hitting a mid corner bump. I got that fixed with some RCE yellows. Next I started to realizing that I wasn't getting enough information for ME to tell if the back end was about to step out, so I replaced some bushings to add a little NVH. Next I ungraded the tires to MPSS, stock size on the stock rims. Again it was unpredictable when going over mid corner bumps. Not so much that it was uncontrollable, but enough that I'm not comfortable holding it at the limits. So, now I've got a set of RCE Tarmac 0's waiting to go in this spring. (Thanks again Myles and Andy)

At present it's just a DD, but I've been toying with the idea of attending an auto-x school this summer and possibly attending a few races. I like the idea of the competition, but I hate the idea of worrying about points and classing when modding my cars.

As for appearance, I couldn't care less about the size of the fender gap. In fact unless the guys at RCE tells me otherwise, my intention is to run the T0's as close to factory ride height as possible. If there's a performance benefit I'll lower it, but I don't want to sacrifice steering feel for appearance. The car is already beautiful as it is.


Edit: I should also add that with the yellow's I find turn in to be excellent, very neutral feeling upon corner entry, to me . There is a hint of mid corner understeer, and if I do start to auto-x I might have been worried about tuning that for mid corner oversteer. As it is though, it's just enough to keep me feeling safe and happy. I'll see what the T0's bring, I suspect the added camber up front with the spring rates, damping, and the drop I'm intending will result in a similar feeling. If not I'll be looking for sway bars. The problem with that though, is I'm a big fan of keeping the rear as independent as possible to allow me to put power down as early as possible. I can't justify the cost of upgrading the diff and honestly I don't think I should have to.

I'm the opposite of @Calum above. I think the fender gap sucks. It spoils the lines of a beautifully designed exterior. I think the stock suspension communicates well enough for DD street use and the occasional HDPE.

To me there were just a few minor problems with the OEM suspension that drove the decision to upgrade pretty quickly. Keep in mind, I wanted to keep the OEM springs/shocks, but couldn't find the product I wanted on the market.

1. Wheel gap with the factory ride height.
Horrendous to the point that it was near impossible to just let it be. Otherwise, the OEM suspension was pretty ok. What I needed was -1" drop all the way around with something closer to -1.25" preferred. So I looked forever for was a way to drop the car on the stock suspension by changing the mounting points without installing shorter springs. After which I was hoping to correct the geometry and then all good.

The rear was achievable with lowering LCAs -20-40mm (W/ LCA products by Parts Shop MAX, and Stance) and/or top mounts from Raceseng and Robispec (at the time).

The fronts no luck. I could find lowering top mounts (HVT, Ground Control, and your Racecomp (out of stock) that would drop it -3/8" at most. But nothing more. Drop spindles might have worked but there are no parts on the market, and there still aren't. I thought about slightly shorter and stiffer front springs (-.5" to -.8") but then we get into suspension tuning including bump-stop/jounce bumper tuning very fast.

2. Improved highway ride
To start, really, I could have dealt with the stock suspension. So this is a secondary request. Anyhow, living in California it's pretty well known that the condition of our highways is quite bad. Highway ride on the stock suspension is generally compliant, but not enough over large bumps at speed. I hoped to specifically improve this with improved shock travel before the secondary spring/bump stop.

Notice I didn't mention "improve handling" or anything regarding raising the limits of the car because the stock suspension is capable enough on the street AND track for someone of my skill level. Also because I know that tires, pads and fluid would successfully raise the limits of the car when I was ready.

So, I started with springs, but those really didn't improve the ride so much as just chang it. From there I upgraded to my current RS*R Sports-i coils. An mid-priced decent quality coil that accomplished all the above without breaking the bank.

Still I'm waiting for some engineer/businessperson to put together a kit of decent quality components that use the stock springs/shocks but lowers the car a set amount between -1" to -1.25") for $600-$700ish (i.e. lowering top hats, LCAs, drop spindles, roll center correction, etc). If this is pie in the sky, I can accept that, but if not, it would likely be a first upgrade for most modders (even before a tune). The wheel gap is just that bad.

My BRZ has turned into a budget "racecar". Originally bought as a daily driver that was to remain stock, but was never daily driven and got modified before I even drove it.

I wanted springs and shocks (Bistein B8 with RCE Yellows) instead of coilovers as I have no experience with coilovers and was worried I would be daily driving mine in winter. I have a fairly healthy understanding of alignment and suspension stuff but am no where near what some of you guys are. I also opted for Raceseng CasCam plates because I felt the stock steering felt rather light and knew bolts wouldn't get me enough camber for what I wanted to use the car for. I also sprung for some adjustable rear LCAs to add some camber to the rear and fit my tires better. My biggest regret was probably going with the Eibach sway bars. The rear seems too stiff even on the softest setting for what I want, the front is ok.

Suspension was probably the most important for my car and build, but I am very budget limited.

Given that so much of the rest of the suspension has been sourced from the Subaru parts bin, I wonder if our front spindles are similar to any others, and if there might be one that locates the wheel bearing higher in the assembly? After three years I'd expect someone to have found such a part, but I don't think I've ever seen it discussed.

Started out as I just liked the car. Then I drove the car. Then I drove the car at a local AutoX event.

Now I want to be better at AutoX, More track days, more knowledge, MORE MORE MORE

have the Ohlins in my 86. although they have done less than 400km is suppose. was mainly for autox and khanacross. I liked the build quality and simplicity of one way adjustable.
I am looking at selling them as they will be no good for gravel or off road

Daily driver and weekend autox (and hopefully HPDE this year) car. Started with a very budget STX build (RCE yellows on stock dampers with stock wheels/tires) and have been slowly building it out. Now running Bilstein B8/RCE Tarmac springs, ZIIs, HVT camber plates, and looking at getting LCAs to really perfect the alignment for next season.

The fact that it also happens to be a blast on the backroads with this setup is a nice benefit but it's set up for the autox lot I run in locally (very little grip, hence the lower spring rates than most competitive coils).

Daily driver that I am taking to the track as often as I can. 8 outings last year, which was my first ever year going to the track.

I've done a bunch of "simple" upgrades so far. Bushings and camber bolts up front are really the only handling related mods so far.

Since I am a total track noob, I was progressively faster each time I went out last season, not counting the day in the rain. I'm not sure if I am at the limit of my current suspension setup yet, but I figure by the end of this season I should be. Barring an unexpected influx of cash this year, a suspension upgrade is in the plans for 2016.

Or I could get bored and just do it this year.

Disagree completely. The stock suspension is one of the most competent setups from the factory this side of an exotic.

The stock tires just don't let you get away with being ham-fisted.

(Not saying you are, just saying the stock setup is very, very good. Especially considering the entry price of the car.)

Check the outside of your tires for one, have you "blued" them into submission? Or have they started chunking? If not, you still have a little bit to go.

But don't worry, it takes YEARS to get halfway decent at driving.

Not yet, but I'm keeping an eye out for it.

Great! At least you are recognizing the desire to improve your craft vs just throwing parts at the car.


One of my favorite things with old track car was getting point bys in Corvettes?Supras/etc, in my little 1.6 Miata.

Although granted our local track is a technical track vs a power track.

IMO this behavior has a lot to do with the stock tires.

They seem to be designed to lose grip when the car's attitude is abruptly altered laterally, but still have a pretty fair amount of grip when the car's attitude is instead gradually turned. A jolt (like a high speed mid-corner bump) will make the car feel unsettled, even though it still has plenty of grip left. This makes it easy to coax the car into oversteer with a flick of the steering wheel or abrupt throttle change (e.g. a Chris Harris-like drift), but still provide plenty of grip when the driver's inputs are slower. This behavior is bared out in the stock car's skidpad numbers which are remarkably high given the narrowness and compound of the OEM Primacys.

The stock car on more aggressive aftermarket tires of the same size loses this wiggly tendency. It feels more planted and less prone to oversteer without any suspension changes at all, even if the absolute skidpad numbers are barely changed.

Yeah, it's nice to pass the big guns. At least this season I won't be the newest guy out there.

The track I go to is quite technical as well. 20 turns in 5.2km.

OK, I get it. I can't drive for shit and the stock car is perfect. I'm not here to argue with anyone. I just wrote what I experienced. I don't need a bunch of guys asking if I know about the new TPS report cover sheets. I still have my stock parts, I'll put them back on and sell everything except the MPSSs.

Erm... I wasn't really saying that. Sorry if it came off that way. Although the MPSS are a pretty amazing upgrade for the stock car.

:respekt:

Nice! Here is a video of Emilio from 949 Racing at Hallett in his seriously quick Miata.

You don't really get a feel for the elevation change, but I think from the highest to lowest to point is just over 100ft.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yXFoA5cmrM"]Crusher @ Hallett - Miata lap record - YouTube[/ame]

I don't see the car's lines when I'm in the car having fun, but I hate having more gap front/back of a tire than above it; Good thing for me the best performance appears to be only slightly into this range. :)

Technically this is a daily driver, since we'll road-trip in it. However, I don't actually drive it daily (walk/train to work,) and may put on just as many miles in a year to/from AutoX as everything else combined once I get started up on that again this season.

There are two key factors for me in the suspension setup: handling/performance, and WAF. If my wife can't knit on those road-trips, the suspension is crap. I think that means I get to spend a good bit to upgrade, but that's the plan. :)

Stock tires are... interesting. Not bad, talk plenty, and reasonably well matched to the stock suspension - stay within its limits and it's nice. Pushing hard into a turn, and it requires more attention to throttle than I'd like to avoid walking the tail around, and even to apply throttle to get going again. Brake early, ride the edge, wait for it to settle, another tiny bit then go - I was able to be more aggressive with my old FWD (for that matter, had to be to get it to turn in nicely.) I need more negative camber, which will probably help this. But I'll be getting more spring (and a properly matched damper) first. Tires with it (17x8 MPSS for daily, not sure for AutoX yet.)

I'm solidly in the "thought I knew enough about suspension, learning just how little I know pretty quickly" camp. Whee!

I bought this car as a chance to own a brand new S13 240SX. No joke.

It's about as close to that type of car as I'll ever get without buying a used car.

As for the suspension... "2nd" car that somehow sees over 20k miles a year. I don't have enough time dialing in all sorts of suspension settings with multiple adjustments, hence my choice of Ohlins R&T.

-alex

Daily Driver, soon also the track too.... hopefully.

Cant really speak about handling for now, but my plan of getting RCE Yellows would be primarily for looks as of right now.

My 86 is my daily driver. I try to take it up to the mountains any chance I get, that first drive was a revelation for me, I loved how the car changed direction. It has really highlighted to me how little I have known about suspension with my previous cars. I have changed my tyres and added camber bolts to the front struts. I plan to go with some lowering springs (probably RCE Yellows) and some better dampers (probably Bilstein B6 or B8) as I would like a little less wheel gap and occasionally I find the front a little too soft in stock form. The dampers are mostly because I would like to experience some quality ones and Bilstein seems like a good entry level option.

The FR-S has been my only vehicle for the past few years (first time in a long time I've only had one vehicle to rely on). Suspension is still stock...only relevant changes have been steering rack bushings changed to solid aluminum ones (which helped out very much with the weird mid corner steering trait of the stock car) and running 205/45-17 tires on lightweight 17x7.5 wheels with more than 4lbm of unsprung weight removed from each corner. Car is much more composed than bone stock and quicker in reflexes at the same time while having greater stability at higher speeds as well (...lower CG from reduced tire diameter and rear factory diffusor delete just works better.)

Perfectly content with the stock suspension and only plan to upgrade to non-adjustable Bilstein B6's when the originals have noticeably degraded below acceptable handling. Don't feel like messing with suspension on this car....don't even want to change the springs, even though i would like it just a little lower (but I want to keep the same stock ratio F/R). They pretty much nailed the suspension from the factory, and after 3 years getting to know the car I've pretty much explored what it has to offer and am very satisfied... my rear tires wearing down to the tread bars evenly across the width in less than 6k miles can attest to that...LOL That's why I buy inexpensive tires... I drive with some slip angle every turn I can because that's what the car likes and it feels great doing that (very slight force on the steering wheel in the direction opposite of the turn means you nailed it perfectly). Alignment has never even been touched from how it left the factory either.

I've had some track cars in the past with adjustable suspension setups....didn't really even messing much with the suspension once I found a good setting for the condition. No reason to bother with adjustable dampers for my DD FR-S... I want it simple and highly dependable while being a vehicle specific tuned application - can't get better than non-adjustable Bilstein dampers in that regard.

In racing sims I don't mess with cars settings except for tires and gearing...I just drive, drive, drive the car on the stock setup and try to maximize what it can do and what I can learn from it. You get a lot from doing that.

In the past I have had several track cars I could drive on the street, but not comfortably. My FRS is a daily driver street car I can drive on the track. My goals are to make my car handle as good as possible with out engine modifications.
It is the automatic.
Mods, 4,88 rear end gears with Cusco LSD.
Tein SRC Coilovers.
Corner weight and alignment at West End Alignment.
Enkie 17 by 9 wheels with Maxis RC-1 tires.

I habe DDed my car since day 1 (may8th 2012) and have participated in every hpde and autox day my work schedule allows. Also lots of mountain road driving. I love cornering. Sadly I still haven't ordered the struts and racing camber/caster plates I want yet. This summer though for sure!

My BRZ is my only car.

I also plan on autocrossing this entire season in it.

My current setup I admit is more for looks and honestly, I've been disappointed because of it. It looks fantastic but it has lost something since I went with this setup. Over the last year, I was OK with it because I only autoxed a couple times and didn't really drive much otherwise. This year I plan on changing this, starting Saturday.

I've fiddled with Subaru's and suspensions/handling off and on for almost 15 years now, mostly on my own but almost everything I've done with my cars has been up for public record (via forums).

I've had a daily driver with crummy coilovers and a very buttoned up chassis, I've also had excellent daily driver setups that left something to be desired on the track. With my BRZ, the goal is to find the perfect medium, and I have a few ideas I plan on implementing soon enough...

One can't utilise all of the power all of the time on public roads but regardless of how fast one is going the suspension is working all of the time. Going 20 km/h? The suspension is working. 110km/h on the freeway? Suspension is working. At the track? Same. I feel the car every moment of driving. This is why I think suspension upgrades are good value.

In addition to being my daily driver, I also ran a full autocross season and 2 track days this past year in my BRZ. The car is enjoyable to drive on the street and has performed amazingly well in both autox and HPDE settings. I finished the LVRSCCA season 1st in STX and 2nd in PAX despite being my first full autocross season and running a minimally equipped budget setup. I utilize RCE Yellow springs on oem dampers with a hollow 22mm front bar and HTV camber plates. This combination is also pleasant to daily drive on as it provides a firmer but compliant ride, adequate suspension travel and a nice visual ride height appearance. It's a nice mix of form + function!

We also feel the powerband/tune through the entire operation of the vehicle.. every moment of open loop/WOT, down to the in-town putting and closed loop accelerations, all have a certain felt and interacted-with characteristics of power over time and how power is generated in the system. This has shifted the paradigm of peak power to looking at the mountain holistically, focusing on the 'area under the curve' instead of the top of it all. Powerband upgrades (specifically tune and major areas of improvement) are also good value

But I agree with you.. It applies a little more to turbo platforms, but at NASIOC one of the mantras are (aside from 'driver mods', track days, education courses, etc): dollar for dollar, suspension mods are the most fulfilling. Thanks Unabomber for embodying that perspective to the community over there :D

--

back on topic.. As another DD and minority track use, I seek that happy medium. Currently on $140 sportlines (got 'em for a deal) and Bilstein B8s w/ racerx LCA's and suite of whiteline bushings with a -1.5f/-1.3r camber | slightly toe out fr/slightly toe in r alignment. Love it but always looking for ways to refine and better match driving style to the system :)

I DD mine (about 18k miles annually), autoX monthly during the non-winter season and occasionally see light track duty, but only 1-2 times a year max.

Because I really enjoy autoX, I keep my suspension stock to not bounce out of the street/stock class. Plus, driving a lowered car year long in Chicago area is a bad idea that I already did once with my previous car.

If this car ever ends up being not my DD, i'll likely get some nice adjustable suspension setup, but for now I enjoy the comfort and clearance of the stock suspension.

Driving too much. That's how I use it. Up to nearly 12k miles and I got mine Sept 11 2014. And that's with me trying to take it easy. Its so fun to drive and its so sexy especially since its the series blue. Working on exhaust and eventually brakes and suspension...with the shops help cause I know nothing about suspension

I chose track and autox, although I generally don't care how my car rides on the street as I don't daily drive it. That said I have found that quality suspension will ride acceptably(to me) on the street anyway.

Lowered mine a little more than necessary but I dig the look. I have it just to where the top of the tire meets the fender. It would perform a little bit at a higher ride height but then I don't think the look I want would be there.

On the flip side, I've done 5 events with a shit ton of seat time with 2 cross country trips and lots of hard miles through awful weather and the car has never had an issue or left me stranded.

The car also performs much much better compared to stock for what's intentions are with the car.

I'm at the track at least once a month, HPDE, Regularity etc, as well as skidpan/drift and my 86 is my daily.


B6 with STI Pink Springs
LCAs
Raceseng Camber tops
STD Sways
17x8 with Nitto Invo for the road
17x9 with Hankook RS-3 for the track.


I love the way this car handled from new, and the ride/handling compromise is just right for me as it is now. Good out of the box, but can be made more suitable for your specific requirements.

I voted "daily driver, suspension work primarily for better handling" because you didn't give an option for "daily driver, desiring suspension work primarily for improved ride, with side benefit of improved wheel control". My '13 BRZ is still stock because I can't decide whether to dump $$ into lighter wheels and tires, springs and dampers, FI, etc, or to just buy a used Cayman S. The BRZ is just practical enough to be my DD since we're DINKs with a Golf wagon as 2nd car. But it is also a frustrating " almost" car, as in almost perfect. Superb steering but just a bit too rough ride on the crappy streets where we live, fantastically adjustable handling but a bit too little torque to really make use of it, shifter very direct but a bit too notchy, incredibly bad Pioneer HU, etc. All fixable I guess, but...

I have a year or so yet on the lease before I have to decide whether to buy it out or give it back. I think the ride part is what concerns me the most. I think I'd be willing to put some $$ into springs and dampers, wheels and tires if I really thought I could improve the ride significantly, especially the rear suspension. Does the Ohlins DFV setup really work? Is there something else out there?

i havent autox this car yet and ive had it since late 2012. but it has many road course events under its belt

Daily with auto x and track duty.

Going to install B8 Bilstein struts and Spec R springs along with SPL LCA, toe arms and camber bolts once the weather isn't winter anymore.

I'd like to do bushings one day but i was always advised to stay away from them when it comes to a daily driver.

Ohlins are great, but on the cheaper side ride quality will improve slightly with just a set of Bilstein B6 shocks. Maybe add some RCE Yellows if you want a mild 20mm drop...

- Andy