Why Scion FR-S Sales Have Plunged
 

From Car and Driver: http://blog.caranddriver.com/why-sci...niche-product/

Anyone could have predicted this. As a handling enthusiasts car, the fr-s is amazing. For average Joe, the fr-s is a terrible car.

If you're the type of person who doesnt care if their car is fwd or rwd, you would never buy an fr-s. If Toyota really thought they would appeal to that market then they are way off the mark.

Seems well stated. If this was Toyota's original plan to let the FR-S die out .... than so be it. Seems odd to me that so much effort, money and R&D was placed into this car just to let it die. Oh well .... bring on the FT-1.

It would be a shame to let the frs die. Because it would take any chances of a new s16 or any lightweight rwd car with it.

Not this shit again.

I am still holding out for the Nissan IDX.. But if all else fails I might just trade in my FRS for the new ND Miata. It is starting to grow on me.. :wub:

That title says it all. It's just typical of a niche product. I would find it odd if sales didn't decline by year 3.

More interesting to me is the media's fixation on the FR-S/BRZ. There were a lot of cars with significantly worse sales than the Twins, like the 370z, S2000, RX8, NC Miata, etc. Why the focus on the Twins?

Good article. The comments section is more of the same, "needs more power" crap. I still wonder exactly who drives over 80-90 mph on a regular basis (track peeps aside). I log over 500 miles per week, and never see anyone doing 100 mph, or blasting off when the light turns green, hitting 60mph in under 4 seconds.

I will leave the massive horsepower numbers to the same guys comparing penis lengths in the locker room, whilst I am lifting weights (nohomo) and people with deep pockets and questionable priorities.

I guess you can call me a niche buyer.

Post written with potato, apologies in advance!

Like I have said before I am fine with them discontinuing it since I have one already.
But... I wish they would make up their mind and announce it before I clock to many miles!!!!

You'll be waiting for awhile then http://jalopnik.com/nissan-steps-bac...s-o-1681814044

Honestly, in order to appeal to the mass market I think Toyota should have made a convertible version. Go after the very large segment of Miata and S2000 buyers who bought them simply because it's a sporty roadster. The people who don't care how the car performs on the track, but just want something that is small, looks good, and has a roof that folds down. They won't complain about power because.. well, they're the sort of people who would buy a Miata or S2000. And nobody expects a convertible to have a ton of room in the back seats.

A great example of this consumer is my boss's wife, who loves the way the Toyobaru looks but wants a convertible. I think there are plenty of people like this out there, and Toyota could score some decent sales by appeasing them.

(I do NOT think more power is the answer to greater sales)

better still be around when i buy it in the summer of 2016
or i'd be really mad, and they wouldn't give a shit what i think anyway lol

hate us cause they ain't us :cheers:

@Defuser this is why I believe there should be a new performance measure when testing cars. I call it "Casual 0-40" and basically it measures how fast a car can get to 40 if the driver isn't necessarily stomping it. Think about it, 0-60 times are based on launching and redlining, practices very few people do in the real world, so it matters little. Plus, the most common speed limits are 25mph and 35mph, so the car won't even see a road where it can go 0-60. Tell me how long it takes a car to get to 40 and I'll be more impressed.

They'll still be around, just might not be new...

Actually, I doubt they would drop it that fast, but you never know.

This car also in jalop article: the ten best cars no one is buying.

I believe Toyota already predicted this. 86 is just a symbol car that they put in big poster in dealers so the majority of buyer will feel sporty when coming there to buy the Corolla. Brand association.

Most of the enthusiasts who understands this car already has one, while the rest is never going to buy a new car.

While for the majority of the average buyer who has the money to buy a new (sports) car will not like this car: slow auto, cheap interior, cramped rear seats, and the fact you have to rev the car so high.

Also I hope that they discontinue this car in 2017, so at least we can recover the purchase price from the exclusivity. LOL.

seriously, why do people not put this into context?

Obviously quoting internet sources here, but I have the benefit of hindsight and 20 years of following various sports cars/coupes on the market.

Acura RSX: 20% YoY drop for 2nd year.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/06...sa-canada.html

Mitsubishi Lancer (entire line):
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

Nissan 350/370Z: first year was a mid-model year introduction, hence the sales "jump"
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

Honda S2000:
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/06...sa-canada.html

I can spend all day quoting various links of sales figures, but the bottom line is a 20% drop YoY for the 2nd year of a niche sports car is OLD NEWS.

-alex

As you've indicated, the title says it all. To respond to your closing question, however, the Miata has decades of history. The S2000 has 15 years of following. The Rx8 is around 15 years. Ect. The reason our twins are picked on is because we're the new kids on a block full of seasoned vets and old timers. There are vehicles that are still selling BECAUSE they are so niche in heritage (Let's look to vehicles not imported to US like the Camero). These, for some, are an icon piece of days gone by when cars weren't nimble, but raw. Driven one quarter mile at a time. These types of vehicle ideals, while different from our vehicle's drive to be light-weight and nimble, were and are still fun in their own regards.

Stock for Stock, it is easy to see that everyone buys a vehicle for a different reason, and "Fun" can be explained in many terms.

You make it sound as everyone in this comments thread are sitting here, **** in hand, talking about how once upon a time we had 300 horses under our hoods. Let me explain my position. I want an OFT to fix the power band. Why? Sure the power is nice, but the fact that my power curve competes with the amazing grand canyon here in the state I live in, I don't need to cruise in a valley to save gas. I have pedal control for that. Show me an OFT that makes a beautiful and smooth curve that offers little to no torque or horsepower gain, and I will show you a man proud to use it.

But those last two words are important too... "use it". I drive my car. It's my daily driver, my weekend warrior, my wife's bragging rights to the other girls at work. Between my wife and I, we've been sideways on black ice, in rain, in dirt, and yet we are rarely ever driving like an idiot. Do I wish I was faster than a prius off the line? Sure. Do I care that I am not? Well, not really. No. Because I, like so many others here, bought our vehicles for the same reason you may have. We saw a concept drawing 7-8 years ago. This drawing picked up traction and became an idea. This idea became research. Research became clay molds. clay molds became proto-types, and proto-types became what we drive today.

So I'll get off my soap box here, but I'm sick of people picking up flak for wanting to add power or take away power, stance or rally-out their vehicles, or just be themselves. We are a community that has grown on individuality and bold moves. If Johnny Two-****s wants to add 400hp / 300tq to his car and wrap it around a telephone pole, that's his business. But he'd better learn something from the mistake and try not to take anyone else with him when he does it.

Like people have said,these declining numbers arnt surprising. It will be interesting to see if Toyota decides to update the car or just lets it die.

We're an unconventional few here in a world surrounded by mediocrity, so the FR-S's appeal is appreciated more and any suggestion of declining sales leading to dropping the model isn't good news.

The reality is that of all the dozens of models of cars, trucks and SUV's Toyota produced over the past 60 years, only three names still exist.

I'm just grateful that Toyoda-san committed to this project over the objections of the bean counters, but with his last name he has final say.

I hope they're making a reasonable ROI on these cars, enough to justify a Gen. II, but if not it's been a breakthrough car running against the tide of millions of Corollas that please the boardroom, not most of us.

Still hopeful their FR-S experience will grease approval of FT-1. They'll have a bank of 25,000+ happy FR-S owners ready to trade up if they haven't bought a Corvette or Mustang already.

I can't really agree with that. To be honest I never knew the difference between a FWD and a RWD until I bought the FR-S. I feel as though I fall under the "average joe" category more so than the "handling enthusiast".

IMO, the reason sales are plunging is because this car is almost 30k+ for most people, and if you're trying to target the youth niche--most don't have 30k+ to spend on a car.

If they sold it as a barebones for 18-22k, I think sales would be much, much better.

Please, please let the twins just be a "look what we did!" car.

This always happens with almost any vehicle, but is certainly more pronounced with a niche vehicle like the twins. Sales invariably start out strong and then wain as time progresses and the market is filled. Other products arise (Miata ND, new Mustang, etc) that poach sales and the product becomes old. That's why many manufacturers release special or performance editions later on - to inject some life into an aging product. This is why I held out hope that we may be able to see a turbo/performance variant instead of the special editions we've gotten that are little more than appearance packages.

I'm starting to believe that this will be the only generation of the twins and part of me isn't that sad, since I already have mine. We have a great community that will continue on even if the cars do not. As the twins get older and worn out, we'll see many converted into track cars like old Miatas, and that makes me smile. Pristine examples may be lusted after, or may be forgotten. I would think that enthusiasts would hold a place in their heart for cars like these that took a chance at filling a small niche at an affordable pricepoint.

i'll be buying new so i just hope they still take orders at that time.
been wanting this car since it came out, but i just bought a house and am getting married in November.
After that, i'll be buying!

doubt there will be a new $30 000 car like this for awhile

No truer words have been spoken. I've always been a proponent to the phrase 'To each their own'. Glad to see some rational and moderate minds and not extremes on forums.

I have no idea how you could get any more "bare bones" than what a base FRS already is.

Scion has "tuner editions", which are "Bare bones" (Steelies, no sun roof, etc). and It really only dropped MSRP by like 1500 bucks.

Said it a hundred times already but here I go again!
If they are going to "let it die" it was already in the business plan. The same as if they keep it around.
This is not a "normal" production car that they will try to save or let go based on sales. They planned the life span of these cars before the first one ever hit the road and it would take massive shifts in numbers (either up or down) to make them change that plan.

GRATZ On the wedding! I am getting married 10/29, myself. :thumbsup:

Just to be fair... their Target price for thie vehicle was originally that exact range. 18-22,000. Did they make it? No. Does this cause issues with the mass market and affordability? Yes.

My final price for the vehicle was $21,151. If it'd have been over 22500, I'd have walked away from the Fr-S

Hahaha that was a hilarious movie. :thumbsup:

Right on...this is exactly what they planned. They make so much more money off of the Camry & Corolla & other bland cars that they pretty much used the funds of the 86 development as big marketing move that benefits enthusiasts. If people think Toyota is "losing" money they obviously don't know how rich & powerful they are.

This car makes so much sense at the 18-22k range. I would totally buy that new and pour 3k in mods down the road.

Since I am on track to keep the car of r10 years, I would like for the product line to continue for at least 5 more years.

As the car leaves the warranty period and into the "middle age" of cardom, its nice to have things like engines and gearboxes listed in the used car part media. Especially since the entire drivetrain is specific to the model.

I'm just going to quote myself from 2+ years ago and point out that it has exceeded my expectations, very soon there will be more Toyobaru's on our shores than S2000's and we have several years left of production (at least 2, as many as 4) even with no refreshes:

While I agree that they would hit a better market in the low 20's, 25k isn't 30k for the scion people. 25k seems reasonable for the car, just wont get many kids cause the tC and xD's are cheaper.

You're lucky, the first year it was extremely difficult to get out the door under $29k in my area, I'd say less than 20% managed it with the majority going for well north of $30k and some even reaching $40k territory.

If anything is dissuading new car buyers it's the fucking dealerships.

The general consensus here seems to be that this is normal for any car.

That's not entirely accurate.

This is normal for any product.

http://www.datalicious.com/assets/si...tlifecycle.gif

That is the "product life cycle" that marketing majors have to memorize to get a masters degree. Most products will follow this general trend. Cars are no different.

That curve isn't always quite that shape. If a product comes along that everyone needs, and there's no way to improve upon it or compete with it, that curve will be longer and may not go into decline for a long time. Some products also may see a steeper growth. The twins appear to have done that, but that's really because the "introduction" period was before the car even went on sale. Scion had really already sold those cars to those first-month buyers; they just didn't know it yet.

Some products are designed to go through these stages and then be phased out when they're no longer providing the targeted return. You see fast food places do that. Wendy's likes to introduce a special burger or chicken sandwich that they already know they'll take off the menu in three months when the sales die down. McDonald's likes to play with the product life cycle phenomenon with McRib by bringing it back, letting it go through the cycle, then taking it away.

But some manufacturers want to avoid the decline. Sometimes you can't do that with a product that doesn't change. Manufacturers will offer new versions or options. Some will completely redesign and relaunch. This is what car companies do, and this is their goal:

http://pearsonblog.campaignserver.co...ife-cycle1.jpg

That revival tail basically picks up where the decline is happening and (hopefully) starts the product life cycle over again. For most cars, auto makers plan for this. This is what they're doing with their refreshes and redesigns.

Toyota/Subaru have tried to extend the maturity period with all the special editions. Now they're in decline, which is absolutely normal and expected by any marketing major who actually showed up to class, which admittedly isn't all of them. They may try to revive the product with a redesign and start the cycle over. They may just leave it as it is and enjoy profits on a long tail on the decline side. They also have to consider its indirect benefits in an overall sales strategy among a fleet of different models.

But just because the product is following a known and expected pattern does not spell doom for the car. It doesn't indicate that the product is a failure, nor that Toyota or Subaru have failed to get exactly what they wanted out of it. It doesn't mean we will or will not see a second generation. It just means what it means, that sales are doing exactly what you would expect them to do.

Toyota will likely keep the line alive for 6 years even with declining sales (which was predictable as most here have mentioned). Look at their most recent sports and sporty car models for evidence. I am sure that with the initial success of the twins they have long since surpassed the break even point on the R&D on the car so everything since then is profit. The majority of drivers today are more concerned with gadgets, gizmos, big power and comfort. The twins buck all those trends so there is not going to be mass appeal for them. Most buyers will think the twins are overpriced for what you are getting because of the lack of gadgets, gizmos, big power and comfort. Hell. many of the post on this forum show that a lot of FT86 buyers agree with them. It takes a special breed to appreciate these cars for what they do offer that other vehicles do not. Unfortunately, for the longevity of true sports cars, the number of those type of drivers is very limited.