BRZ for me...Maybe?
 

Hey guys I am in the market for new car to fill a DD fun role and am looking seriously at the BRZ. I just prefer the look of it to the FRS no hard feelings FRS owners. :)

I followed the 86/BRZ etc through development and was stoked. When it came out with 200Hp my excitement kinda faded I felt like we would eventually get an STi 250 HP+ version but it seems thats not in the cards. And I kinda forgot about it until I saw one on a car lot the other day.

Anyways my first cars were BMW E30 3 series and M3 that I drove the wheels off of until they were wore out and the other was totaled when I hit a deer. I then bought a heavily modified 450+ HP LS SS Camaro that I got on the cheap.

I still have the SS but to be honest it is a terrible daily it rides terrible (its slammed) horrid MPG I hate the build quality to no end. Cant clear a speed bump or a pothole barely etc. And I really bought it cause I was seduced by the power and I got it super cheap. That being said 1200$ tire replacements and not being a drivers car has taken the fun out of it for me. It just isnt any fun until you are going way to fast for any public roads. I also ride bikes so once you realize how fast some cheap bikes are it makes thinking you are fast in a car laughable. Its also a slush box which detaches you even more IMHO.

Anyways I took the BRZ out for a test drive today for about 30 mins and was very impressed with the handling and the dynamics of the car its just FUN to drive without going 140MPH+ lol. My only real complaint is there seems to be NO TORQUE on the stock engine or tune. Will a tune exhaust and intake cure some of this? I have no problem with the power up high but down low its very lacking to me. I dont expect it to be a V8 but it was like almost hard to get off the line with out huge revs and slipping the clutch a bit. Might just have been a really grabby new clutch.

I mean can you get another 50hp with boltons?

I guess my questions are how reliable have yours been? My SS even with the mods has been bullet proof. I read about a problem with the tranny from 5-6 downshift? And the strange idle thing? :bonk:

I have never bought a new car in my life because I dont like most new cars they are numb to drive or weigh 4000LBS and the prices make my head spin.

Any info would be great I have been reading alot of threads here lurking. Also looking at all the amazing aftermarket parts you can put on these cars to really make them yours.

Thanks for any help! :D

If you want a fast and torque-y car, the FRS/BRZ isn't for you. You might be able to get 50 horsepower with just bolt-ons, but it'll require a lot of work and E85.

If you have another $10k to throw at it for a good and reliable turbo kit and tune, sure. Go for it.

I really like my car, but it's not for everyone. You might be more at home with a Genesis Coupe, 350Z/370Z, or even a Mustang. Those all have more power and torque and are closer to the BMW's that you used to drive.

Car is really fun to drive automatic or standard. Standard being more engaging. I drive an automatic and don't regret it. You should change your tires immediately however seeing as these Prius tires just don't do the car justice.

Haven't heard to many people having issues with reliability but, I have read 2-3 cases of blown engines. That can be from a number of reasons, parts, driver inflicted, etc. One of which however was during the scheduled maintenance at the dealer. Someone went full mental:bonk: and poured transmission oil into the engine. After a few miles or so driving the car back home, boom.:cry:

Also read a lot of stuff about people complaining about the clutch after a few thousand miles, don't know much about it.

The idle sound, aka "crickets", is due the factory fuel pump. Plenty of people have had the pumps replaced with the newer ones by the dealer but the sound comes back after a few hundred miles. It's louder in colder whether too. I've noticed because lately since it's been colder than usual here in Los Angeles. You get used to it, trust me. There is apparently a rattling noise in the car too coming from the back seat/trunk area. I haven't personally heard anything of that sort.

A drop in filter can help definitely help increase throttle response. Upgraded the exhaust system will help with air flow but, as far as I know you'd have to get forced induction and a tune to get any major increases in torque.
Also with that, you'll hit that magic number of around 240 hp:drool: which is really what this car should have.

Hope to see you in one soon! :thumbup:

What do you expect from the 2.0l 4 cylinder ? You should look into turbo cars like wrx or gti if you want torque

Ya I am not looking for massive torque from the BRZ but I was more wondering if some mods help just a little on the bottom end at all. Or if you always pretty much have to be up in the revs with these cars.

What is the normal rev range you guys drive these cars at?

Have some friends with GTIs I wouldnt buy a FWD car so its out of the running. I did drive a 370Z aswell and its got plenty of power but again it seems to lose some of the charm and direct feel the BRZ offers that I love.

Have you thought about something AWD since you want a DD and you live where it snows?

It snows very rarely here so its not a big deal. I wanted to try a STi WRX but dealership didnt have one at all. And you really start talking big $ and I prefer RWD.

3,500-4,000revs on the highway.
2,500-3,500revs in the city.

I've pretty much substituted the sound level of my car for more torque.
The louder it is the faster it sounds. :bellyroll:

Insurance will also be higher on the WRX. Maybe a Genesis but they're heavier and not as agile. :iono:

Maybe the one I drove was screwy haha IDK. The FRS I drove aswell didnt seem as bad on the low end of the rev range.

What is the deal with the STI teases with this car? Will we ever see a real STI version? I saw that one at the auto show but then nothing ever came of it. I guess they are just not wanting to threaten the WRX STI with the BRZ? IDK.

That's just me I guess. :burnrubber:

"Subaru typically introduces its high volume models (e.g. Forester and Outback) on a five-year product cycle. Lower volume models can be six years, which would put an all-new BRZ arriving as a 2018 or 2019 model."
-http://www.planetsubaru.com/2016-subaru-brz.htm


Till then, I doubt you'll see any factory increase in power. Maybe 2017 to push sales before releasing a new model.

So get happy and start slapping mods on :). :respekt:

It is an amazing platform seeing what is going in in Japan with the aftermarket its almost limitless.

One side of me wants to sell it to myself as a low cost DD that is fun to drive. But the other side wants to do something crazy to it and mod it out like nuts.

I went in knowing that I'd never do a tune, or get a turbo, or make it a wide-body or anything like that. Hence why I got an automatic in the first place. However the mods I have done just make the car so much more of what I wanted in the first place. Louder/deeper exhaust, better quality tires for grip, etc. I forgot to mention before, but this car has possibly the worst blind spots ever. Aftermarket Rexspeed wide mirrors however are amazing.

I feel like you really want a BRZ and reasons you're disputing you're choice is the things that have disputed to death by now. Everyone knows it's "underpowered, blah blah." What I hate is people are so quick to forget that this car has won so many awards. It's a wonderful, light, agile, car that gets great MPG and that's what it was made to be.

Ya you are right. I am just one of those obnoxious people that has to research everything to death and go through the motions haha.

And I am not wanting to be one of the whiny complain about the HP people either its a crazy fun car to drive regardless of HP.

Has it been pretty reliable? As for wheels and stuff everything I read says it has prius size rims and tires on it. Will it fit a decent size rim with out the crazy wide body stuff? I guess I didnt look under the car to see how much clearance there was.

I have had no problems whatsoever and I'm approaching 6,000miles besides the "crickets."

Depends on the offset really. It'll fit 9.75 inch wide rims running 245 tires with +20 offset. That's a lot of poke but, it's what I'm looking to do with a 1 inch drop on Hotchkis Springs. You can also buy some $100 spacers too if anything. Most people run 225-235 tires on 8+ inch wide rims with +35 to +48 offset. This tool will help you.

Sounds like you may not have your mirrors adjusted correctly. I don't have any blind spots since changing to this method.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...id-blind-spots

You should wait until the Alpha Camaro comes out.

Pretty much this. If you can see your own car in, your side mirrors, you're doing it wrong. Took a while to get used to it, but wow what a difference.

I think the only way you will get the torque where you want it will be with forced induction. If you have the money and time to go down that path it is not a bad option, but you start talking $$ to get there. Have you driven the new WRX? It actually has more torque down low than the STI and is a good daily driver. You will give up some of the handling and sportiness, but a few suspension mods won't cost you much and may give you what you are looking for.

There is a cone of blindness to the left of the driver that expands outward. You can adjust the mirror so that you don't have a blind spot in the lane next to you, but there is no way to adjust the stock mirrors to eliminate the blind spot in the second lane over. It is geometrically impossible with the stock mirrors. There is a similar blind spot on the other side, but it's easier to see into it on that side by turning your head and looking out the rear porthole window.

You may not notice this problem if you always drive on two to four lane roads or always drive in city traffic. If you do a lot of highway driving on large, six lane interstates, it becomes an issue, especially when assholes drive along under the speed limit in the left lane and then speed up to block you when you pass on the far right.

I think if you're looking for it to launch off the line like a rocket, you will be continually disappointed with this car. There are plenty of other cars that offer the power you want. Aftermarket intake really doesn't help this engine, as the intake on it is already giving it as much cold air as it needs. A header, tune and exhaust will help some, primarily to smooth out the torque dip, but not as much as you want. To get what you want, you'll have to go to forced induction.

Personally, while I would love to have another 50 hp naturally aspirated, this car is such a pleasure to drive otherwise that I would still buy it in a heartbeat. But I wasn't looking for a rocket. I wanted a car in which I could take a turn on a country road at 60 mph with no effort at all and laugh as the driver of the Jeep Grand Cherokee that was riding my bumper on the straight shits himself as he's suddenly sliding sideways trying to keep up.

Second lane over? I think you will find this is the case on the majority of cars. When people are talking about blind spots on cars, they are generally not referring to traffic outside the lanes either side. I guess this could be a problem if you regularly change multiple lanes all at once, although one would hope you have planned better than that and are able to perform two single lane changes several seconds apart, checking your mirrors between.

No, as I wrote above, it's a problem when you're in the right lane and want to go to the center, and you can't see the dumbass in your blind spot in the left lane who has sped up and is trying to move to the center lane to block you. In that situation, a check of your mirrors and out your window shows a clear lane. As you move into it, suddenly a car appears into that center lane out of the blind spot.

Like I said, if this is just your around town grocery getter or you never get off two lane roads, this won't affect you. I drive 30K miles per year on highways and frequently encounter this exact scenario.

I was just discussing this "two cars move to the centre lane" scenario with a colleague at work a couple of weeks ago. Our conclusion was, that either both cars are level, in which case it's easy to see the other car out the side window. Or one car is ahead and the other is behind, in this case, the car behind would obviously see the car in front and abort their lane change.

Although the situation you are describing almost sounds malicious, like the other person is trying to cause an accident. I guess when you have idiot drivers on the road like that then you need as much situational awareness as you can get.

If your only issue is with the torque & like the power up top, consider a UEL header with a tune. This car suffers from a MASSIVE torque dip from around 3k to 4.5k rpms where the car just feels like it falls on its face before starting to go anywhere again. Look at any stock Dino. It's by no means gonna get you that 50+ torque you mentioned but makes a drastic difference in the way the car feels because it eliminates the dip and gives you a much linear power band. Plus you get the subie rumble :thumbup:

I tried this and totally forgot about mentioning this option.:thanks:

I just hated not being able to see apart of my car. That's why I love these wide concave mirrors so much. I was also forced into the purchase seeing as some douche-bag broke my passenger side mirror and the blue tint in the mirrors look nice too.

Just on those mirrors. I'm used to looking over my shoulder, when backing into a drive way, but those mirrors are so huge and their angle extends so far down that I can actually judge where my rear wheel will meet the driveway and not have to battle with twisting my head round anymore.


In other words for a seemingly small mirror they really do seem to show an amazingly clear rearward view.

If you want a bit more oomph, the electric supercharger kit is nifty (reasonably priced, quick to install/remove, little/no parasitic loss). I considered getting one, but personally I like winding up the car in stock form (though perhaps I'll supercharge it in a couple years, just to mix things up).

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/...pscb681db7.jpg

Though they're widely derided as "Prius" tires on this forum, that's a tad misleading since the Primacy HP isn't available on the Prius in most markets (you can get them with the Prius sport package in Japan). Note that they've also been sold on some Audis and Mercedes.

IMO, they offer great feedback and plenty of grip for daily driving, while also allowing one to break the back-end loose for low speed shenanigans.

That written, if you're going to autox or track day, you'll want different tires (but it's better to get dedicated tires/rims for competitions anyway).

Ya I am pretty much sold on the BRZ. I think I will keep my SS and just use the BRZ/86 as a DD with some light mods to make it mine. Gotta pick a color still ;).

Man I really like the look of the Greddy exhaust with the blue tips haha, the aftermarket is amazing on this car. :)

I read somewhere that it didnt have the Subaru burble due to equal length headers?

Also if I do a tune and an exhaust will the dealer cancel my warranty? That would be a bummer.

I think I would change the wheels just cause I am not a big fan of the style of them alone. And it defiantly needs a little drop which I could probably get with some springs. But may run some KW coilovers haha.

I was reading Perrins website and seems like he got some decent gains with the parts and tunes he used. I will look at that electric supercharger haha I always thought those were kinda a joke guess someone got it working.

Thanks for the help so far. I felt like the car had great visibility and I also run little convex mirrors on all my cars makes it so much easier to see whats next to you.

The biggest concern for warranty denial would be running a tune. It is really a hit or miss thing but if you start modifying your engine you just need to be prepared to pay out of pocket for a new motor if something were to happen.

In a worst case scenario of blowing up your engine, how much would a replacement motor cost?

:iono:

I am not worried about a tune screwing up my engine I don't think I have ever even driven a car that didnt have an aftermarket dyno tune lol.

Could you not just flash it back to stock before you roll back to dealer? Alot of the programmers seem to do that.

I really think you will be unsatisfied at the end of the day, buying this car and trying to make it as fast as cars that start out >$40k is not going to satisfy most people. I honestly think that if you cannot enjoy a Miata you will end up unsatisfied with the Toyobaru (worth mentioning you can't bank on great resale value, it's average at best, you'll be out several thousands of dollars if you end up selling it). If you can enjoy the car for what it is, it's sublime, there are no true alternatives on the market imo, best of luck.

Relevant post:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=25

Like I said I am going to keep my Camaro for crazy hp weekend cruises and DD the BRZ. I just wanna do some mods to it to make it mine not going to try and make it a full track car like my SS. The last thing I wanna turn it into is some crazy unusable car. I already have one of them and its why I am in the market for something like the BRZ.

That guys post is also all over the place.

I am reading of bad depreciation? I could barely find any on Ebay for sale at all. They seem to be pretty popular.

Saw a thread about a slight oil leak some of them develop but imagine that would be covered under warranty?

Also is the car mostly sheet steel? Or is there some aluminum on it? I am amazed its so light.

He tried to make a BRZ fast as a Porsche, bought a Porsche and regretted time and money spent on modding a BRZ to be what he wanted.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=69
Stock FR-S/BRZ with reasonable miles on it (10k-30k) would be lucky to get $20k, that's a $5k loss over ~2 years, dealerships are offering around $16k for trade in, nearly a $10k loss with the car not even out for 3 years. It's better than most European automakers but nothing like your typical Toyota.

Yes warranty, even so, it's a leak, crack it open and seal it up, not rocket science. It's been really reliable.

Aluminum hood (pop the hood it's incredibly light, carbon fiber would be for show only, most aftermarket is heavier than oem) the rest of the car is steel, which imo is good the chassis is very well sorted, stiff, and economical. Aluminum is still tricky as a chassis material due to the harsh stress cycle that a consumer vehicle must endure and aluminum has a fatigue limit whereas steel can be designed to theoretically last forever, an aluminum chassis would have driven up the price a lot for maybe a handful of lbs. saved, the weight savings is in the lack of sound deadening, bare essential cabin ammenities and designing for a single purpose instead of sharing a platform with family sedans and hybrids and station wagons *cough cough GM*

http://www.media.subaru.com/newsrele...id=190&mid=127

Thanks for the great answers Strat :)

Do you guys on the forums feel that the Tranny Issues, Idle Issues, Oil Leaks, axle weakness are isolated cases as seems to happen on forums where everyone comes for fixes or are these weak spots that really need to be addressed on a major refresh of the vehicle.

Toyota and Sub are usually pretty bulletproof my family has owned many (LandCruiser Tundras Avalons etc) over the years with no problems but reading some of these threads is a little disheartening as it seems there are some real issues. :(

You can flash it back to stock but it resets the ECU counter and Subaru Of America (SoA) who has to authorize engine work/replacement can tell the ECU has been reset and by how many miles.

So if you blew your motor, flashed back to stock, then brought it into the dealer that could tell the ECU was recently reset. This is where it is hit or miss. There are situations where SoA has denied warranties claims for this due to suspicion of abuse, but it is hit or miss.

You just have to be prepared to pay out of pocket for worst case. Rule of thumb is that if you cannot afford to throw your warranty away and pay for repairs yourself, you should limit what mods you do to your car.

Subaru really does not seem to care about modded exhausts, suspension, etc, but if you start modifying the engine, it can be hit or miss with warranty work.

Depends on if you get a new motor, used, and what labor rate you pay (dealer for example will cost more). I would say anywhere form $3-8K depending on used vs new and you installing it vs a dealer/pro shop. Labor rates can really vary even by region.

Thanks for the info. Ya I wouldn't try anything shifty like that I mean like Oil leak happens and I take to dealer and they won't fix cause I have an exhaust and tune would be really lame. I guess it depends on dealer alot I have no experience with my local Subaru dealer either so its a wonder.

Never had a new car so sorry if these are dumb questions.

Also my couple above still stand for whoever wants to chime in. :) Thanks again for all the help thus far.

@Mag I feel that the problems are mostly minorities, like you said people come on the forums to find solutions.

It really depends on your usage of the car, if you lower it an inch add power and beat the hell out of it, budget for axles, it's that simple. Tranny is hit or miss depending on quality control and it is not a smooth gearbox imo, just the way it is, notchy and mechanical.

After two years and 34,000 miles I had my first issue, a check engine light on the track that cleared itself after turning the car off and on a few times, I'll scan it tomorrow and see if it's worth making a fuss over.

Hey strat getting closer to pulling the trigger. Now I just saw all the CEL cam problems :(. Haha have wanted one of these cars so long but seems there are some quibbles. I would want to keep it for awhile I don't wanna dump it after warranty runs out. :( ugg. More research to be done.