I understand the forum is a for-profit venture, but this is disappointing.
 

Good discussion, feedback, and questions are key to longevity of a forum. Is this the precedent that you would like to be set?

I find it petty that a Manufacturer/vendor has to use a technicality to have a post removed, instead of properly addressing the question.

If the administration finds my (typically rather pointed) questions unreasonable or unacceptable, so be it. I'll stop asking them.

Had the same question in the post below been asked by a "normal" user, it would not have been reported. Is it so terrible to ask for quantified evidence of a manufacturer's claims?

Out of curiosity, if you, yourself created a personal (non-vendor) account that people recognized as Mike from CSG, would they taken offense to it? Provided that you don't make reference to CSG products under this account?


Not suggesting what they're doing is correct, it's gray at best - but you can see why such a policy is in place... I do agree with you that it's a measure that doesn't always favour the end consumer.

Secondary accounts are not allowed. The only reason I post from a vendor account is because my original account kept getting reported in the first place for asking pointed questions, back in early 2012. I am not a CSG employee, but they extended their vendor account to me, since I ask the "no bullshit" questions, and provide straight answers without a marketing spin.

That changes things... So it completely silences some of the most knowledgeable people in our community. Not cool.

As the forum itself is a private venture, we do not have freedom of speech here. The only rights we have are the ones granted by the owner(s) of the forum.

Not taking any sides, but here's my opinion:

The only part of your post Mike that could be seen as questionable was the "We've melted fans with exhaust manifolds that are both Ceramic coated AND wrapped AND heat shielded. Are you sure that's enough?" preface. Chances are they've done their R&D and that could be seen as quasi-FUD, etc. Without that part, the following temperature questions would come off as a simple non-editorialized queries that could have hopefully returned valuable information. Those questions were the good pointed inquiries that you could have followed up with temps you've experienced.

Going strictly by the book, ANY post would violate the rules.

I actually was planning on following up with pictures of the heat shielding/wrap/coating, as well as the melted fan, but got distracted (I'm hardcore ADD).

But, as a quick followup, EGT is normally ~1250-1400 for quick street pulls, with up to 1520 on track. This is the result on a 40F day.

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...89&oe=5544F413

disclaimer: did not read thread where post in question is located.


Looks like a relevant question posed with first hand experience presented in open conversation that would benefit the community overall... It doesn't even look like there was any specific branded product that was used as the comparison?

@RehabJeff86 @mkivsoopra @sw20kosh @WoOosOn

lets just keep good knowledge to ourselves since sharing is not very appreciated by moderator :) open private exclusive forum instead?
@CSG Mike :shrug: knowledge is power... lack of knowledge ~ lack if power and too bad if this forum loses u, its their loss and those moderators should have known better

I didnt see anything wrong with your post.

So based on how often I call BS when I read it, I would have been banned long ago if I was ANY kind of vendor....

In fact I have been accused of starting shit just by asking valid questions with no other commentary.

Vendor or general user, you can't ask pointed questions of vendors who have paid their protection money.

So many dodgy vendors selling even more dodgy products on this forum .. all protected from any scrutiny.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

bureaucracy life.

Sorry to say but you pretty much have to make another account an not be csg mike, or stay out of their threads. They paid their protection money. I asked questions, as many others, and they are just ignored. When someone like you with a good amount of respect(and track experience) on this forum asks a question of another,, and they don't have a response, they take offense.
There is a reason why they stopped the dyno test at 7k, being vague and making excuses are just that. If you ever seen the inside of their exhaust(i have at 86fest) you would know the truth. I wonder what is under the fancy black coating. I know who I will/won't be buying from.

I guess you haven't been in the feedback forum?

$$$ Rules the world, and the forum is no exception.

Try to get an alpha-vendor account, where you pay them $ ( has to be more than protection $ others are paying) to allow you to ask questions.:bonk:

So here's my 2 cents.

I can completely understand the rules applying to the classified or even the marketplace in general. However, if a vendor or manufacturer wants to throw their product into the discussion rink (i.e. forced induction forum), all should be free to question them, ask the tough questions and, IMHO even plug their own competitive products.

If the product or service is good enough and has the backing of empirical evidence, then there is no reason to worry. The item or service will speak for itself. If the vendor is too worried about the tough questions, stick to the marketplace forums!

When the moderators and administrators of the site becomes this protective of vendors and sponsors, it has lost sight of its real reason for existence. Sometimes the posted rules need to be modified or changed when they become oppressive, irrelevant, or outdated. This is why ToS change, this is why we have bills that turn to new laws. Nothing is set in stone here.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if a new bulletin board begins somewhere else where people are more free to speak out. The FT86 club as it is right now has started on the path of shooting itself in the foot.

I love being part of this club, but if it continues down this road, I have no qualms about finding something else.

Doesn't exist.


The letter of the rule is to prevent wars between vendors. I wouldn't have acted on Mike's post myself but for those that enforce the letter of the rule it does actually violate it. Not all vendors are as open to tough questions as others unfortunately.

Not since Visconti and FA20Club were getting positive reviews and the mods were banning anyone who dared ask them tough questions.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

I get that it violates the letter of the rule. However, again just my opinion, but maybe that rule needs adjustment, so that the tough questions can be asked by those who know from experience.

If they aren't open to tough questions, then perhaps they should keep to the marketplace section.

I do not see a problem with it however technically it is against the rules, if you were in my industry and asked a question that was tough I would answer, and if I could not I would find someone who could and then respond...

So I guess at the end of the day I do not see what the issue is. I mean who knows you may have been trying to help them out by asking that question as maybe they had not though of it before...

You mean for personal attacks after warnings? Either way I didn't ban any of them.

It's not as if Mike hasn't answered these types of questions himself in various threads, nor have others been prevented from asking him. Most vendors don't seem to be very active outside pumping their products though. As long as the transparancy is both ways it is good feedback whether the product ends up being so or not. So far I've not seen Mike post anything that couldn't be considered constructive critisim... which is more than I can say about a large number or member's posts.

My 2 cents are free.

As much as I appreciate the sentiment and wish it were so, the real reason for this site's existence is $$$.

Whatever we post immediately becomes the owners' intellectual property. They can do with it whatever they damn well please. Just the facts.

Mike for president 2016