Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Engine, Exhaust, Transmission (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8)
-   -   Cold Air Intake worth it? (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79018)

Buellr 12-10-2014 03:58 PM
Cold Air Intake worth it?
 
I am looking to improve my intake. Any suggestions for the best benefit of a naturally aspirated intake on my 2014 FR-S?

After my warranty is expired I'll update to a turbo or SC.

Thanks for your help.

8R6 12-10-2014 04:03 PM
i can say this much, the "appearance" factor under the hood will definitely be improved.

as for the actual performance gains, ive been struggling with trying to figure out the value of the cost vs gains to me. i cant decide if dropping $200+ on an intake for a bit of sound and under-the-hood aesthetics plus a couple hp gain is worth it. i never show off what's under the hood since engine is bone stock...

Vino 12-10-2014 04:05 PM
If your planning to go FI save your money for the intake just buy any drop in filter, its proven and it works

Tcoat 12-10-2014 04:11 PM
Some really, really good info, comparisons and cost analysis in the engine tech threads here.
Short version of the story is though that, dollar for dollar, the real value for these cars is in a straight drop in high flow.
There are of course, those that will argue that statement (some will argue anything) but the threads really do show that the stock intake is actually very effective and a drop in can improve it even more.
Now if you want to bling up your engine compartment or are thinking of FI then there may be better choices.
I for one, am very happy with the improvement that I got out of my simple TRD (sorry Shutter) drop in filter.

Reaper 12-10-2014 04:15 PM
Stock works great. If it didn't Toyabaru would have changed it. And some of the supercharger kits wouldn't use it either but a few do. This isn't 1990.

Defuser 12-10-2014 04:38 PM
From everything I have read, no.

Timmy_Jones 12-10-2014 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper (Post 2051653)
Stock works great. If it didn't Toyabaru would have changed it. And some of the supercharger kits wouldn't use it either but a few do. This isn't 1990.
You have to be careful with statements like that...if this were true, our header would have been designed differently from the factory, helping to decrease the torque dip. Not everything is optimized from the factory.

Timmy_Jones 12-10-2014 04:42 PM
I don't have a CAI, nor will I buy one. Seems that a header and tune are 'worth it'.

Koa 12-10-2014 04:45 PM
Grimmspeed's new offering is mighty enticing. They're touting up to 17WHP gains paired with OFT vs bone stock. We'll see how that goes- I just installed the intake myself on my bone stock last night, and will report back when my tablet arrives Saturday.

At the pricepoint, though, I wouldn't have spent the money if I didn't get in on the group buy.

P.S. have a perrin air filter for sale- used for literally 200 miles ;)

8R6 12-10-2014 04:52 PM
17hp gain off an intake for a 4banger is LOL

and even peak hp gains are meaningless without knowing the hp gain across the entire powerband range. just cuz something makes X-hp at 5300rpm doesnt mean you drive at a steady 5300rpm hahaha

DAEMANO 12-10-2014 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koa (Post 2051701)
Grimmspeed's new offering is mighty enticing. They're touting up to 17WHP gains paired with OFT vs bone stock. We'll see how that goes- I just installed the intake myself on my bone stock last night, and will report back when my tablet arrives Saturday.

At the pricepoint, though, I wouldn't have spent the money if I didn't get in on the group buy.

P.S. have a perrin air filter for sale- used for literally 200 miles ;)
The Grimspeed design certainly is thoughtful, but a note about the reported gains. Most of the HP increase is likely from the tune. Notice that most intake comparisons are made:

stock vs. Intake + tune (the gains from the intake and the tune aren't isolated)

instead of
stock vs. stock + tune vs. stock + tune + intake.

Best money definitely a tune + high flow drop-in filter (any brand). The stock intake already is "cold air". Get an OFT and run e85 for free. Definitely worth it.

Koa 12-10-2014 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRGT86 (Post 2051715)
17hp gain off an intake for a 4banger is LOL

and even peak hp gains are meaningless without knowing the hp gain across the entire powerband range. just cuz something makes X-hp at 5300rpm doesnt mean you drive at a steady 5300rpm hahaha
Take it up with Chase and his team- I'm not saying I believe them. I'm telling you what their findings were and what they tout. You can see their development and dynos on their intake thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAEMANO (Post 2051721)
The Grimspeed design certainly is thoughtful, but a note about the reported gains. Most of the HP increase is likely from the tune. Notice that most intake comparisons are made...
From what they are saying, it is the other way around. I find it hard to believe, but their report and dyno sheets claim 10whp gain from bone stock to just the intake, and an additional 7whp was found by Shiv when he tuned the prototype FRS. Again, not saying I believe them, but I am forwarding what they're touting

Guys I'm no spring chicken when it comes to autos- been wrenching since I could hold one and know enough to be wary of such claims. I've followed the development of the G/S intake since they started it, though, and knew it was a great piece for the money (group buy rate, at least ;) )

Plus, I sold the stock airbox and inlet for $100. So what's really $200, when people are spending upwards of 1k+ on catbacks. To each their own

DAEMANO 12-10-2014 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koa (Post 2051725)
Take it up with Chase and his team- I'm not saying I believe them. I'm telling you what their findings were and what they tout. You can see their development and dynos on their intake thread.



From what they are saying, it is the other way around. I find it hard to believe, but their report and dyno sheets claim 10whp gain from bone stock to just the intake, and an additional 7whp was found by Shiv when he tuned the prototype FRS. Again, not saying I believe them, but I am forwarding what they're touting

Guys I'm no spring chicken when it comes to autos- been wrenching since I could hold one and know enough to be wary of such claims. I've followed the development of the G/S intake since they started it, though, and knew it was a great piece for the money (group buy rate, at least ;) )

Plus, I sold the stock airbox and inlet for $100. So what's really $200, when people are spending upwards of 1k+ on catbacks. To each their own
17 is still pretty high for a tune + intake on this platform when the OEM intake has proven to be so effective. Now I want to track down a OFT stg 1 tune dyno (w/o intake) to refresh the comparison.

Koa 12-10-2014 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAEMANO (Post 2051753)
17 is still pretty high for a tune + intake on this platform when the OEM intake has proven to be so effective. Now I want to track down a OFT stg 1 tune dyno (w/o intake) to refresh the comparison.
The problem is that they would have to be all done on the same car, in same atmospheric conditions, on the same dyno.. would really be interested to see!

To address the OP's question (finally, sheesh)... it probably isn't worth it as much as driver mods (a few track days) if you're looking for performance gain. It is considered worth it to some. Most, myself included, would suggest a drop-in filter and call it a day.

jflogerzi 12-10-2014 05:19 PM
Save your money. 2 biggest power gains are tune and header. Thats all you need and maybe an axle back for sound If your after that

Reaper 12-10-2014 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy_Jones (Post 2051695)
You have to be careful with statements like that...if this were true, our header would have been designed differently from the factory, helping to decrease the torque dip. Not everything is optimized from the factory.
The header was designed for emissions. The intake was not.

If you cut out the cat from the factory header and tune it on e85, it's very easy to make over 200whp with a stock car. Factory header works pretty good. So does the intake.

8R6 12-10-2014 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koa (Post 2051725)
Take it up with Chase and his team- I'm not saying I believe them. I'm telling you what their findings were and what they tout. You can see their development and dynos on their intake thread.



From what they are saying, it is the other way around. I find it hard to believe, but their report and dyno sheets claim 10whp gain from bone stock to just the intake, and an additional 7whp was found by Shiv when he tuned the prototype FRS. Again, not saying I believe them, but I am forwarding what they're touting

Guys I'm no spring chicken when it comes to autos- been wrenching since I could hold one and know enough to be wary of such claims. I've followed the development of the G/S intake since they started it, though, and knew it was a great piece for the money (group buy rate, at least ;) )

Plus, I sold the stock airbox and inlet for $100. So what's really $200, when people are spending upwards of 1k+ on catbacks. To each their own
sorry, i wasnt meaning to discredit you. was just simply pointing it out to the "general public" here but quoted you since you brought up the numbers, thats all.

Koa 12-10-2014 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRGT86 (Post 2051780)
sorry, i wasnt meaning to discredit you. was just simply pointing it out to the "general public" here but quoted you since you brought up the numbers, thats all.
No offense taken- not trying to take credit for that either! I have thought about going down to drift office after I get my OFT and lay down some numbers. I would have had to save my stock airbox to get a true baseline couple of runs (I don't have it anymore).

It just doesn't seem worth it to throw a stage 1 N/A car up on the rollers, though.

all in all, I wouldn't have bought any CAI if I didn't fanboy tough over the G/S dev thread. The quality and craftsmanship is damn great- we'll see on Saturday if the gains can be felt with the OFT. Going to be hard to quantify since a tune does way more than just change the way the twin sucks in air.

miyoshi82 12-10-2014 05:52 PM
I'm planning to go stock with the TRD CAI. Thoughts? It is covered under the warranty since I'm going to have the Dealer install it?

Tcoat 12-10-2014 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miyoshi82 (Post 2051818)
I'm planning to go stock with the TRD CAI. Thoughts? It is covered under the warranty since I'm going to have the Dealer install it?
To the best of my knowledge all dealer installed TRD parts are warranty friendly in that they will not void your car warranty. If you mean are they covered by the car warranty I don't think so but are warrantied on their own.

jflogerzi 12-10-2014 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miyoshi82 (Post 2051818)
I'm planning to go stock with the TRD CAI. Thoughts? It is covered under the warranty since I'm going to have the Dealer install it?
Waste of money. Stock airbox works just fine. Oft any day over trd airbox..

Tcoat 12-10-2014 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jflogerzi (Post 2052052)
Waste of money. Stock airbox works just fine. Oft any day over trd airbox..
Agreed! Just a nice drop in. Doesn't even really matter which one as they are all about the same.

chas3wba0 12-10-2014 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper (Post 2051762)
The header was designed for emissions. The intake was not.

If you cut out the cat from the factory header and tune it on e85, it's very easy to make over 200whp with a stock car. Factory header works pretty good. So does the intake.
Beat me to it.

But I will restate anyway :)

Compromises must be made in header design to meet emissions and efficiency requirements, sacrificing max power output.

No such compromises needed to be made in the intake design, so to say that "stock header can be improved upon, therefore stock intake can also be improved upon" is a poor assumption, regardless of whether or not it is true

BRZnut 12-10-2014 11:24 PM
Not to start a war but which drop in does everyone prefer??

Teseo 12-10-2014 11:35 PM
Whatever cheaper

wootwoot 12-10-2014 11:40 PM
I will have a TRD intake coming up for sale soon if interested.

I think an intake is PART of a good NA set up. It has been shown aftermarket intakes can make more power over the stock intake tuned and untuned. Grimspeed has shown gains untuned and moto-east has shown gains tuned with aftermarket intake vs tuned with stock intake. That said, it isn't the first place to spend your money. I think a tune and header is the best starting point. Then an intake if you are after every little bit you can get.

Teseo 12-10-2014 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wootwoot (Post 2052222)
I will have a TRD intake coming up for sale soon if interested.

I think an intake is PART of a good NA set up. It has been shown aftermarket intakes can make more power over the stock intake tuned and untuned. Grimspeed has shown gains untuned and moto-east has shown gains tuned with aftermarket intake vs tuned with stock intake. That said, it isn't the first place to spend your money. I think a tune and header is the best starting point. Then an intake if you are after every little bit you can get.
The best intake for NA its the ITB

wootwoot 12-11-2014 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teseo (Post 2052230)
The best intake for NA its the ITB
End thread.

:iono:

Timmy_Jones 12-11-2014 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper (Post 2051762)
The header was designed for emissions. The intake was not.

If you cut out the cat from the factory header and tune it on e85, it's very easy to make over 200whp with a stock car. Factory header works pretty good. So does the intake.
A tune on e85 alone will get you close to 200WHP.

Are you sure you want to stand by that statement 'factory header works pretty good', do you mean for emissions? Then I agree. From a performance standpoint....absolutely not. Dynos of a bone stock car adding just a CAI show minimal gains, bone stock and then adding a header shows a great increase in power and torque.

Reaper and others; may want to take a look here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31555

Pretty good compilation of dynos with various setups, focused around headers.

Buellr 12-11-2014 10:43 AM
Thanks for all the input
 
I am looking to grow the car into a solid daily driver that can keep up with anything on the road. I am not looking for 500hp or anything, but I want a solid powerband.

I appreciate all the help.

Bakemono858 12-11-2014 11:33 AM
Just buy a K&N drop in. Worth every penny.

Shark_Bait88 12-11-2014 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2052058)
Agreed! Just a nice drop in. Doesn't even really matter which one as they are all about the same.
No, Tcoat, Blitz gets moar power because mad JDM yo! :bellyroll:

http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/images/BlitzSUS-1.JPG

Tcoat 12-11-2014 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88 (Post 2052556)
No, Tcoat, Blitz gets moar power because mad JDM yo! :bellyroll:
But damn it man it is the wrong colour and will clash with my orange car and purple led under lights I am gonna put on!
And don't give me any of that "you can't see it shit" as everybody will know it is there 'cuz of the big mother of a sticker I will have to put on my windshield to show I have it.

Shark_Bait88 12-11-2014 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2052566)
But damn it man it is the wrong colour and will clash with my orange car and purple led under lights I am gonna put on!
And don't give me any of that "you can't see it shit" as everybody will know it is there 'cuz of the big mother of a sticker I will have to put on my windshield to show I have it.
I put it on my Firestom and everyone thought I was a cop because of the giant blue Blitz sticker I put across my windshield right below the huge white Scion sticker that has Scion logos on both sides; you know, in case people didn't know who makes my car.

Butt dyno told me I gained 15whp, but it's probably more like 20.:burnrubber:

SkAsphalt 12-11-2014 11:54 AM
No. buy a filter.

/thread

Tcoat 12-11-2014 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88 (Post 2052571)
I put it on my Firestom and everyone thought I was a cop because of the giant blue Blitz sticker I put across my windshield right below the huge white Scion sticker that has Scion logos on both sides; you know, in case people didn't know who makes my car.

Butt dyno told me I gained 15whp, but it's probably more like 20.:burnrubber:
Be hard to tell if it made a Firestorm faster since the lack of metallic/pearl in the paint already makes it lighter and faster then the rest of them! Except white of course which is balanced out by less pigment.

Shark_Bait88 12-11-2014 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2052589)
Be hard to tell if it made a Firestorm faster since the lack of metallic/pearl in the paint already makes it lighter and faster then the rest of them! Except white of course which is balanced out by less pigment.
#becauseracecar, bro.

Timmy_Jones 12-11-2014 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buellr (Post 2052523)
I am looking to grow the car into a solid daily driver that can keep up with anything on the road. I am not looking for 500hp or anything, but I want a solid powerband.

I appreciate all the help.
Solid powerband = a new header and a tune. Or the header at least.

Shark_Bait88 12-11-2014 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy_Jones (Post 2052670)
Solid powerband = a new header and a tune. Or the header at least.
This, but if you buy a header without a tune you're wasting money. Get the most out of the header with a tune.

You've heard it over and over now, in terms of actual performance gains vs. cost a drop-in filter is your best bet. Put the money you'd spend on an intake system towards something more worthwhile.

daiheadjai 12-11-2014 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRZnut (Post 2052208)
Not to start a war but which drop in does everyone prefer??
I really liked the K&N - I only replaced it with the Injen short ram because I found it used for a decent price ("moar loud mean moar faster") - and it did feel a bit peppier.
IIRC, the dyno compilations here show it had a marginally better power gain than the others across the power band (if not necessarily at the very peak).
Plus it made the car sound much better (I hated the stock sound track - tractors are not sexy)

Also, the K&N is pretty cheap too - even for Canucks (who usually get ripped hard for parts). Touge tuning sells it for a very fair price IIRC (under $50CAD if I'm not mistaken).


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