Why Supercharger??
 

Hey everyone,

To all the people who have gone the supercharger route...why? I am just interested to hear.

There seems to be a lot more people in SA going the SC route.
I personally have a feeling its mainly down to good marketing of a few local company's.

Thoughts?

More boost at lower RPM with a supercharger. A turbo has to spin up to speed so you get boost higher in the rev range...
My 2c

How about a twin charged option like so.

I wonder how much it would cost locally and the reliability.

i cant find the Youtube link but I remember seeing an Australian one.

That way everyone is happy!

Well, RGM got an excellent reputation and you know there is always going to be decent support. If they had gone the turbo route I'm sure most would have been running turbos now and not SC.

As far as I'm concerned they're one of the very few I'd trust to install and support a FI system in SA. Heard of blown motors, crap backup support, zero experience, etc from some of the others. I'm not going to hand R80k over to somebody to "wing it".
Only other one I'd trust is Auto Sound Engineering who's developed their own turbo system. As for the rest - zero chance.

That being said, I also prefer the power delivery of a supercharger, it's very linear with instant throttle response - very much suited to the 86.

I feel that was more of an issue with older engine technoligies. With the 86 "turbo lag" is greatly reduced thanks to:
· Higher compression ratio motor

· Dual intake and exhaust active valve control systems, aka vvt;

· Direct and Port Injection;

· Optimal turbo location; and

· Flexibility of turbine housing A/R sizes.


Using these graphs as an example. All I can see is that the SC makes LESS top end power and it takes longer to get to that peak power which makes it look like there is less lag.
I have seen this consistently when comparing various SC and Turbo kits. The turbo always seems to have more area under the curve throughout the rev range and then more at higher RPM's.

Revolution Performance Turbo
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1394051929

Vortech Supercharger
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/...ps43bb63df.jpg

It just seems far more efficient to use a turbo if this is the case. What a lot of these tuners do for the turbo kits is get the turbo to come onto power ASAP. With that in mind, a turbo could quite easily be tuned to have that linear powerband that the supercharger has. The reason this isn't done often is because as I mentioned, people want as much power as possible low down in the rev range.



I hear what you are saying, RGM is traditionally a SC based company, so it would make sense for them to go that route, especially when taking into account supplier relations etc.

Having said this, at the end of the day is is still a boxer internal combustion engine and a lot of the Subaru shops would feel quite at home with it. Yes, its more complex with its extra set of injectors and high compression. I would personally much rather take my car to a workshop that has been dealing with Subaru motors for years.

I feel that there is this general feeling of anxiety in SA about local companies supporting these cars. If you have a GOOD tuning shop that knows what they are doing, you shouldn't have any issues.

There is an old saying "if you want a fast car, buy a fast car".

It might be a case of one shop having ruined it for everybody, still just not a risk I'm willing to take.

I've got a fast car to play with anyway, so no need to ruin the 86. :D

@Dammond I do think turbo setup on these cars gives better performance, and think the only reason so many people have gone the SC route is because RGM have marketed it really well, and the vortex setup is reliable and again the after market service RGM gives is great.


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I'm not terribly familiar with offerings in SA, but in other parts of the world, superchargers are popular for really two reasons, simplicity of installation, and under hood temps are lower. In the US we have a LOT of track junkies, and the turbo guys have a harder time managing heat, melting radiator fans, etc.

TCs are great for overall power, higher power potential, and on the fly boost adjustability, but their drawback is heat and complexity.

SCs are great for simplicity, instant responsiveness, and a little less weight than a turbo. There is also no lag or boost threshold because boost is always there, so the engine feels more linear/predictable at partial throttle and on/off throttle. SC drawback is mainly less adjustability on the fly.

Twin screw style SCs squish air into the engine by physical compression, they offer the biggest gains at low/mid RPM. Centrifugal SCs use an impeller like a turbo, so they're very efficient, but the power curve rises linearly with RPM so they are most effective at high RPM.

Nice post, thanks. The only credible SC installer we've got in SA is RGM Motorsport. They only do Vortech.

I tend to agree with you MacJunkie....

Nice, informative post, some good points.



I don't like the idea of parasitic loss due to a SC...there is something about a turbo and the way that it uses exhaust gasses (that would otherwise simply be expelled) to make more power. I also like the idea of being able to drive out of boost, hence turbos generally being able to get better fuel consumption then SC's.

Depending on the kit you choose and the precautions you take, heat issues can be minimized with turbo setups as well.

Each to their own however, thanks to all for the input.

Yeah, and RMS cant tune and need to use tunes from international companies and RGM uses Unichip.
Does RGM offer a non-piggy back option out of interest?

Only Unichip as far as I know. I'm sure the Vortech/Unichip combo is by far not the best SC solution but RGM's got the experience and support behind them. I have also not heard of their system or advice blowing any engines up.

What do you believe is the best option?

Cool was just interested, thanks Sav.

I believe the best option would be to tune the stock ECU with whatever software you prefer as there is simply no need for a piggyback system on our advanced 32bit ECU's.

Who are the various companies offering these services in SA
Tuning
Superchargers
Turbo
Full install with warranties

the bolt on nature of a supercharger, without having to worry about the exhuast ect makes it a more viable option.

Also having driven a turbo and a a supercharged car ( not 86's), I prefer the power delivery of the supercharger, especially for the 86 and the way I drive, much more predictable and linear.

The issue with lag. lag metioned above is not really an issue with the FA20, its high comp and careful tuning of the AVCS and correct turbo selection can result in 0 lag

I wasn't referring to any specific companies, just answering your question on what I think the best/ideal would be.

But to answer this, the honest answer is Phoenix Performance. I simply don't know of any other companies offering local tuning on the stock ECU with all of the above with all the experience they have with boxer engines and rebuilds.

Auto Sound Engineering/Jan Steyn in Pretoria does Ecutec tuning on the 86 and also does turbo installations. Not sure what Steve Clark is using?

I know a few companies using ECUtek but a lot of them simply flashing maps from other international companies.
Will be nice to hear them tuning locally...if so :respekt: :party0030:

Yep but I'm pretty sure ASE is tuning them locally - there is pretty much nothing off the shelf about their turbo system. They've done a turbo(Garret 3071 I think) BRZ for Subaru Centurion which was for sale a while ago, I should have made a plan to go drive it.

That's awesome to hear, :respekt: to them.

Here you go:
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...2011.57.35.jpg

Just a pity the support for Sprintex in SA and Australia sucks.

RGM Vortech (mine) boosts 0.44 bar @ Nelspruit altitude.
My understanding is that the Sprintex boosts 0.6 to 0.8 bar depending on pulley, so greater output would be expected.

IMO the equation is simple:
+boost = +power -reliability, and you decide what level of risk you're prepared to take.

After having been boosted @ 0.44 for over a year, 25000+kms, and almost 500 racetrack laps, do I want more?
Nope, I'm very happy as is. :)
For minimal cost I could fit a smaller pulley, but I've decided not to do that.

Pretty much but it would also depend on the supercharger's efficiency.

A big turbo @ 1 bar is pumping a lot more air than a small turbo @ 1 bar. Even so it's not only about the power & torque output - the Sprintex one is making a LOT more torque low down.

Either way, if I was going the SC route it would also be RGM/Vortech for the simple reason that RGM know what they're doing, they've got a proven track record and you know that they'll be there to help if something does go wrong. With Sprintex you're on your own, Vaseline not included.

Of course, it's all to do with the hot-and-cold sliding doors on the gazanaxoid. :)

Yep, but it's all good as long as you re-program the flux capacitor's flange.

Now I'm beginning to worry because I actually understand what you two are talking about!

:respekt:

Well said.i just collected my car from rgm and never been happier.thanks to Dave ,Steve, Rob and the team of rgm.

Glad you enjoying it man. Did you get a dyno graph?


Thanks for the info all. I personally would go for a turbo but its just good to hear peoples experiences with SC's and why they went for them.

As long as Money spent=Happiness :thumbup: