Potential FR-S / BRZ Buyer - Feedback Appreciated
 

Hi,

First of all I'd like to thank everyone who posts both positive and negative information, as I've been lurking for a bit, but have really learned a lot about the FR-S / BRZ from this forum as part of my research.

I've narrowed my search and am planning on scheduling a couple of test drives for later in the week but I was wondering if I could get some thoughts on a few questions I had below...

Disclaimer: I'm a car NOOB, have never driven manual, and know only the bare bone minimum to keep a vehicle running (still driving a 2002 Honda Accord which was purchased new - has roughly 270,000 miles on it). One of the reasons I joined this forum is so I can learn a bit more and keep a FR-S / BRZ properly maintained if I go through with the purchase.

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Questions:

- A handful of local dealers seem to be carrying more used FR-S / BRZ right now, I'm assuming it's because of the impending winter months (NJ) - is now an ideal time to buy? I am not in danger of my Accord dying on me, and have ample cash saved (the prices I have seen listed seem reasonable, but I was hoping to negotiate them down).

- My commute for the next 1-2 years will be roughly 100 miles a day (highway driving, level terrain) - I wanted to make this my daily driver. Is this feasible in a FR-S / BRZ?

- Is it unreasonable to ask a dealer to throw in snow tires? I figured it couldn't hurt to ask - as I read a poster or two saying they were able to - but this is my first time purchasing a car on my own so any advice is appreciated.

- If I purchase mounted snow tires, can those be installed on your own like a simple spare tire, or are there any other checks / activities that should be performed?


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There were a few more things I wanted to ask about, but can't remember at this point in time...

Thanks,
02.ACCORD.DUDE

-for a RWD sporty car, I imagine winter probably is the best time to get one cheap, especially up north.

-my daily commute is only 20 miles, but I drive ~300-400 miles every weekend without any complaints. Car can definitely be a daily driver. Even being a manual, getting stuck in traffic is not that bad. Previous car was a auto 2000 Accord for reference.

-negotiating snow tires seems feasible, but up to the dealer.

-car has TPMS, so a light will come on if you put a set on that the computer doesn't recognize (or doesn't exist). You could search and I bet you'd find someone who has found a solution.

-Yes, probably not a bad time to pick one up, just be patient, negotiate, and get yourself a good deal.

-Definitely doable (I commute 60 miles round trip a day). Just understand that from a noise perspective, this car is not a Lexus or Cadillac and it will be substantially noisy/noiser than what you are used to, so if this is a dealbreaker don't get the car.

As a sidenote to this you mentioned you never drove manual before. I want to mention that once you get used to it, it's not that annoying to drive in traffic. You tend to change your driving habits for the better too (leaving lots of space in front of you and just cruising real slow until traffic picks up)

-Why not? Can't hurt to ask for snow tires. If not there are reasonable options on Tire Rack. I have Michelin Xi3's and like them a lot, have heard good things about General Altimax Arctics too.

-If you buy mounted/balanced snow tires you can install them yourself, just make sure things are torqued to spec. Because I am lazy I just pay Sears $50 to swap tires on the stock rims when time comes to switch. Snow tires are a 100% must with this car, the first year I had the car I tried to drive with the stock tires during a Chicago blizzard and it was really scary.

Thanks for the feedback.

How do you find the seats? I've read they kind of wear on you after a while, as for the noise thing - I'll definitely pay attention to it during my test drive, but as long as it's not any noisier than my dinosaur accord I should be all right.

The edge of the bolster on my seat is starting to wear a tad from getting in and out, likely from my pocket knife rubbing that spot though. Seat covers are fairly cheap, so if it does wear through, that is an option and they look quite nice.

I test drove an automatic and left with a manual. During my test drive i mainly heard exhaust and intake induction noise, there is a sound tube that's connected to the intake that pumps induction noise into the cabin. I don't think noise is that much an issue, compared to the accord from those days,
the edge of the bolster on my seat is starting to wear a tad from getting in and out as well(leather/alcantara), (approaching 10k mi 8 months)
also listen to it idle, if the chirping sound drives u nuts it may be a deal breaker to some, my fix was louder exhaust and turning up the radio,
all i can say is this car is like a high maint. girlfriend,
your always going to buy it nice new things,
its sleek slim sexy
only drinks the expensive stuff
constantly trying to shed weight
you can't stop looking at it
people will ask and complement it

Good luck

- A handful of local dealers seem to be carrying more used FR-S / BRZ right now, I'm assuming it's because of the impending winter months (NJ) - is now an ideal time to buy? I am not in danger of my Accord dying on me, and have ample cash saved (the prices I have seen listed seem reasonable, but I was hoping to negotiate them down).
Direct answer, Yes
Try shopping around the 20th and decide on a dealership around the 25th as most dealers will want to meet quotas. You'll be the one tossing the salesperson around if they have quotas to meet.

- My commute for the next 1-2 years will be roughly 100 miles a day (highway driving, level terrain) - I wanted to make this my daily driver. Is this feasible in a FR-S / BRZ?
The noise in the cabin is pretty loud and may send you towards getting some sound deadening materials.

- Is it unreasonable to ask a dealer to throw in snow tires? I figured it couldn't hurt to ask - as I read a poster or two saying they were able to - but this is my first time purchasing a car on my own so any advice is appreciated.
Never hurts to ask them to toss in extras, especially if they're trying to meet quotas, they'll try to do as much as they can for you.

- If I purchase mounted snow tires, can those be installed on your own like a simple spare tire, or are there any other checks / activities that should be performed?
If you get them with the TPMS sensors -- mounted and balanced it should be quick and easy.

100 miles a day, level road and mainly cruising, sounds like you'll enjoy Tesla more than 86.

Here's a warning from a new FR-S owner.

If you test drive it, you'll buy it.

Be prepared. :)

Sounds like you should look towards a GT car instead just for comfort. A Genesis would suit you well and still sta within your price and RWD needs. I would if I was driving that far everyday.

Drive anywhere from 6000 to 7000 kilometers a month and spend 12 to 14 hours a week in mine. I could not be happier at any point.

I commute 120 miles a day, after almost 2 years still no complaints and my seats still look new.

100 mile a day commuter club checking in.

I actually enjoy the ride much more than when I was driving my Lexus.

I feel like this depends on how tall you are, I'm ~6'1 and they are pretty comfy if adjusted right. For me personally they are not that comfortable on extremely long drives (like 100+ miles without stopping), but YMMV :thumbup:

That's what I did. I did not expect Lexus quiet but this car is not even Honda Accord or base Camry quiet. The stock exhaust has a medium-high pitched drone, the stock tires are noisy, and there is lots of cabin noise from the mirrors and the rear of the car.

After Dynamatting and MLV-ing my car it is now bearable as a commuter. I do highway commuting daily, 60 miles round trip.

If you have a second car it will make you appreciate this car even more.

I'm considering a BRZ as well and I have a long commute. I have also noticed a lot of used BRZ/FRSs for sale which seems strange for a car that is so new. I think that some people buy the car and soon realize it is not what they expected or were hoping for and trade it in. However there are still plenty who've owned them for a few years now and are still happy with them.

The problem is that this car is irresistible on the outside. :p only those who truly understand what approach Toyota took towards the gt86 can honestly enjoy the car for what it is behind the wheel.

I agree with the post above. I am new to the FR-S, so I'll defer to those who have been driving it longer. But I can easily see people buying this car expecting something other than what it was designed to be.

This is one good place to start, if you haven't already read about the '86.

With all the info that was available even before it was released anybody that got caught by surprize when they bought it completely failed in their research. Let's be honest, the first several thousand buyers were not your average car buyers and knew what they were getting and anybody after them, that spent even an hour checking it out, should know as well.There would of course be some that had some problems with the initial release cars that may have got frustrated and got rid of them, I know that when the 15 WRXs came out a pile went over to them and even in the two short years families grew or financial circumstances changed so people traded for more practical cars.
I also agree with Xwithahatandtentwithwindowandfireonroof (sorry 艾洛 that is how I have to pronounce it) that you have to like the act of actually driving to fully enjoy these cars. If you just want to point the wheel and punch the accelerator you will miss the point.

Didn't get around to test driving today (weather was bad, and I got to small time dealership about 1/2 hour before closing thanks to traffic), but I definitely understand what you guys were saying about the noise of this car... Not sure how great of a shape this car was kept, but even from a standstill it was much noisier than I anticipated.

Was a little bummed out that the particular car I was looking at was dinged up all over the place, luckily there are a few other options closer to home...

If those don't pan out, I might consider the new car route, but that'd probably require more research on my part as at that point it might make more sense, like BlueDubbinTDI suggested, for me to consider more of a luxury car...

Decisions, decisions...

if you want luxury, look elsewhere

if you want (imo) a hell of a platform that is capable, even stock, to get the adrenaline running every time you enter the twisties, look here

If possible find out if it is an early or late 2013. It does make a difference with some of the first run issues being corrected.
They are a bit noisy but that is the compromise for weight. Make sure you plug the sound tube under the passenger mat as that makes a huge difference. You can even do it during a test drive by simply pulling the socket plug from in the glove box, pulling the mat back about 4 inches from the HVAC box and shoving the plug in.

Oh yeah definitely - I didn't mean to imply this was a luxury car :-P

Was really just getting at the fact that while ideally I'm going to end up purchasing a car that's fun to drive and that will liven up the commute, a luxury car would also be in the cards if I can't come to terms with the FR-S / BRZ...

there's a lot of good options out right now.. it's a buyers market

I also didn't have any experience (unless you count going down 1 block haha) driving manual so don't sweat it. As long as you understand how things work mechanically then you should be able to quickly pick up. Its definitely a learning curve but fun to better your technique day after day.

Also you can plug the sound tube with the cigarette lighter plug in the glove box. I would imagine the dealer would let you try it since sound could be an issue for you.

Agreed.

Regarding Scion's "Pure Price" approach, they may stick to that strategy in some or even many cases - I am not totally sure. But it my case, it was full-up dealing, and they were GREAT to work with. A very attractive price on top of a thrilling test drive made my decision immediate.

It's likely that all cars brands will be agressively priced in the coming weeks.

Have fun!

Waffling on whether to go used or new now...

The handful of used cars I've checked out require all look to require some sort of fixes (none of which look to be that expensive)...

There's one close by where there was right side damage (reportedly repaired), which I may check out...

I'm a little paranoid when I see damage on a used car though, as it makes me question the actual condition / unseen wear and tear on the car.

Well you bought the Accord new...why not an FRS new ?
Another option would be to buy an FRS used, try it out for a winter. If you like it at all, then trade for a new one next spring.

I read about the FRS/BRZ, everything I could find for about two years. Most negatives I heard were the squeaks and rattles. Therefore decided I should buy new...knowing I'd be spending almost 8 thousand dollars more for a new one. Really hate owning a new car though, as one usually feels he/she must be careful with it.

Last June I road tested a used one at a Scion New Car Dealership. The used one was in excellent condition. Testing it with a salesman sitting next to me, I don't think I made it all the way out of the lot, onto the street, before I said "this is me". Never had that feeling before with any other car.

Waited for the 15s. Bought a new 15 FRS early October. Decided to take a different approach to a new car with this one...Started driving it very hard immediately. That's back twisty, poorly surfaced roads, and revving the engine to it's limits often. Ignored the break in advise some often give. 2500 miles on it now and very happy so far. Soon to take a 7000 mile road trip with it, see what I really think. Note: with only 2500 miles on car, no squeaks or rattles so far (and I have driven it on some really nasty roads, dirt, gravel, potholes, big rocks and narrow streams, etc), we'll see after the 7000mi. trip how it fares.

Have no clue what these people are talking about with the sound tube noise. Do hear a little wind noise, probably caused by the outside mirrors. But who cares....this is surely a driver's car. Still wondering if I should have bought used instead, lived with the squeaks and rattles. It's the actual driving experience I really care about. And for me, I'd never even consider an auto trans...way too boring.

This car fits me, both physically and mentally. My biggest problem with it so far, I don't wanna get out. When you're in a warm shower, who wants to get out, towel off in the cold, and face reality. Same experience when I must stop, park this car, get on with reality. The car is just a wonderful escape. A drug I can't get enough of.

So, for a to and from work car...you'll not wanna get out of the car arriving at work. Yet, during work, all day, thinking about, looking forward to, the wonderful drive home each day.
What more can you ask for in life ?

And for those who don't know me...I turned 68 on October 31st...so just have fun !

I would go new. You seem like a guy who won't be modding (obviously could be wrong) but in the case you aren't why not spend the extra cash for a warranty that most people void putting after market parts on.

It really depends on what you want out of the car. I'm a 100 miles a day driver here too! I bought my 10 series last October 2013 with 6 miles on it and today I am gonna hit 24000 so in about a year and a month or so I drove my new car 24k miles. So far nothing mechanical has "failed".

It is my daily driver, so I drive to work and home 5 days a week. My commute is central valley California so it is pretty much flat so I set my cruise control to 65 mph and so far I avg about 36-39 mpg! I live 20 sec from highway on ramp and work 30 sec off the highway ramp so that is why I get the mileage I get. My purpose is not to drag race my car.

I am about 250 pounds and I am not uncomfortable at all on the drives, so it is actually comfy for me. Also I do hear rattles here and there now all the time. If you like quiet peaceful drives then the car might not be for you because everything is thin on the car to save weight so therefore there are a lot of noises you are gonna hear. I test drove a Lexus RC 350 F Sport just 2 hours ago and a totally different feel and experience from my FR-S but then again it also costs almost double.

No that's pretty spot on, I won't be doing any modding - at least nothing major - maybe a few cosmetic things once the car is broken in way down the road, just for the sake of tinkering but that's it...

I came from driving a 2001 4cyl Accord (parent's old car they bought new) and got the BRZ. Still on the original Accord transmission?


For comparison's sake, I will say that the BRZ is quieter overall, but not by a lot. I have the sound tube plugged because it seemed more like noise than an engine note to me and that quieted it a lot.


This is absolutely the season to buy one of these cars. People don't like car shopping this time of year anyhow, and practically no one wants to buy a RWD sports car when there is snow on the ground.


For snow tires, I recommend getting some 16". Whether you get steelies or another set of alloys, you get a taller sidewall and are less likely to damage a rim in the winter. The price difference between 16" and 17" winter tires paid for my rims. I use Michelin X Ice Xi3's and think they're great. I don't know how much winter driving you do or where exactly you are so they may or may not be the most suitable for you.


Not sure how familiar you are, but the sound tube basically just pipes in some intake noise to the cabin through a set of hoses and a diaphragm. Comes into the cabin in the passenger footwell and can be blocked with the 12V power plug in the glove box. Would be easy to do to tell the difference on a test drive.

Got mine in August and have 13000 so will be even higher after a year. I have not had any issues either and have drove through all sorts of weather. Can tell you, that with the right snows on, these cars can send a plume of snow about 40 feet in the air on each side when driving through about 18 inches on the road!

I feel the need to compulsively updated this... I'm going for a test drive a 2015 FRS at another Scion dealer, and am going to check out 1-2 more used ones on the way back...

After that there's one BRZ Limited I'll probably look at on Monday before I make my decision...

When it comes to paint chips, scratches, etc. how do you guys typically go about fixing them and how often (cost)?

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....aru-brz-fd.jpg

I'm really starting to like the blue even though I was initially turned off from it...

First chip I was pissed, ran out got a paint stick and spent an hour cleaning, sanding, filling and blending.
Second chip spent 20 minutes cleaning and filling.
Third chip spent 10 minutes filling.
By the twentieth chip I spent 30 seconds slapping some paint in it and calling it a day!

Has anyone had any luck with getting a dealer to knock off the destination fees?

If the car is already on the lot, why am I getting charged a destination fee (it's not explicitly stated, but you can tell that's where the additional $770 is coming from)? Is this standard dealer practice?

I'm weighing the cost benefits of a new FRS (base) - on dealer lot - vs. BRZ limited (would have to order)... I think I can get BRZ price down a little which would put it at a 1-grand difference between the two, assuming the destination charges on the FRS stick...

Destination fee is where it came from. That car didn't just magically appear at the dealer. Did cost money to get it there.

True, but my thinking was - if I bought a brand new car (not on lot) - the destination fee would be incurred by dealership solely for the purpose of delivering a car I would drive away with.

With this car, the dealership ordered, had other individuals test drive and presumably used to help sell other vehicles. So in this case the dealership derived some benefits from the delivery of the car, and the car was not solely delivered for my sake.

Wouldn't it make since for them to incur some of these costs? (If I'm reaching, feel free to let me know)

I think I see what your saying but every car on the lot you can test drive. Most dealers will knock it off. Best thing to do is get quotes from near dealers and show each dealer what your offers are. They will typically lower the price.

So this is pretty standard then? I understand why the dr?dealer would do it, just want to make sure I'm doing all I can to get best price (pure price be damned lol)...

Did get these guys to consider throwing in winter tires, Shi at least there's that angle I can work...