FR-S Future Models 2016+
 

Hi ladies and gents, with all the special edition models (which are quite cool imo), where do you see the model going by 2016/17. We seem to be getting the message that Toyburu does not want to boost the model, will that hold true?

Do you think we will see a displacement bump to help torque?

A touring model with more sound deadening and power amenities?

With the FT1 looking more and more likely to becoming the next Supra, and with chatter that Toyota wants competition to the GTR, AND plan to use the shared BMW platform, it is sadly looking like the FT1 could easily be a 60k plus (maybe big plus) proposition. If this holds true, the market between 25-50k could use some help which begs pondering over future higher end FRS models.... Let's say 35k for arguments sake.

I spend lots of time mulling such thoughts and as I lay down icing/heating my sore back, I felt compelled to write and hopefully discuss a fun topic of reality based conclusions for our prized boxer mobile. I have owned a Huge amount of vehicles (another topic) and my brother currently owns one of the nicest Evo X's in the Valley. We are total gear heads and enjoy discussing performance and F1 topics to nausium. He is also a certified Mercedes Tech and is dying to get me from my 335is into a Merc.... Lol "the dark side of the force" . We don't agree on everything but we agree on this.

The horsepower wars are ON!!!! Make no mistake, everything from GTI's to M4's are getting faster and more efficient. I believe as I love our platform of the FRS/BRZ that the sky is the limit and I can't help seeing a number of ways they could go to offer more...

A lightweight model with carbon, modest bump in hp ... GT3 style :-)
A boosted model with 275-300 hp big brakes and suspension upgrades filling the gap between big brother (FT1/Supra)

Anyhewwww, wanted to open this up and get your thoughts. Hopefully a fun topic on future models (no truck talk or 4 doors allowed), this is all about performance upgrades and progression of the model, building on the positives we have today.
:popcorn:

No major changes at all.


It'll be the same car as it's been since 2013.

They'll stop making the car before they do any crazy changes/upgrades to it..

Sad but true. I have a hard time seeing the car getting a second generation despite what has been said/posted. Sales have slowed drastically as basically everyone who wanted one got there's and the second hand market is allowing people who did not want to pay 25K-30K for the car access to it.

To the OP BTW, adding boost, big brakes, and weight reduction would push this car into a range that would make the car un-realistic price wise compared to other cars. There is a reason it was built. To bring back cheap, lightish, RWD cars. This they nailed. Make no mistake, I would love to see this car continue just not spec that way. Your dream is what aftermarket is for. Have you driven a twin on the track stock or with light bolt ons, its a blast. The car is great just the way it is.

The car does not even need bigger breaks (I know, you didn't say it did, someone else must have but I did not find that comment) it just needs better rubber which anyone can choose to put on themselves. But yeah, you point out the greatest flaw in everyone's argument for a upgrades Twin; everyone wants it to be BETTER while also being CHEAPER... :bonk: Cannot happen.

Personally I believe this car is perfect the way it is. Surely a little more power would be great but that's not what this car was meant to be; it was meant to be fun going around corners, up canyons and track fun. Like someone else said that only thing that should be 'improved' are the stock tires but in reality that's not a problem at all with the car really.

I won't sit here and say the car is "perfect" from the box but I can say that Toyota did a good job with what they intended to do. Personally, I can think of quite a few things I don't like about the way the car is from the factory, but I've pretty much taken care of most of it all with aftermarket parts-as have others.

If they did do a turbocharged variant, I'd be totally content if it still had 200hp using a turbo engine, simply because it would be so easy to bring out extra power from it if you wanted.


At this point, you're best off just buying one and doing what you want to do with it. The car serves as a blank canvas. It's such a diverse chassis that you can do so much with it. Buy one, and just choose which route you want to go with the car.

I prefer my car have no breaks at all.

Pure speculation, but the 2020 model might have a NA engine with more hp and torque.

86; (6 + 8) / 2 = 7; 2013 + 7 = 2020

Edit: Or they might add a better engine for the 6th year and a new body for the 8th.

This (the side stating why no big changes):
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77088

Ok so since release we have had some minor suspension tweaks and that's about it.


Taking a holistic view of the product and what sort of an update would be cost effective (across every market) and that would make the majority of customers happy. I'd be looking to a fresh new style of lighter wheels, better rubber and a diff ratio change.


That still leaves the door open to trim levels and would not cost (when spread across the whole production line) much per car. This will further improve handling and road feel through reduced UN-sprung weight and most important of all will improve engine response and low end power to aid in daily driving.


I have only owned my own twin for three weeks and though I am actually pretty happy with it how it is now, I can certainly see that as a pretty warranty friendly mod direction to go to that will improve on the already pretty amazing handling package, but make my daily driver even more engaging. I would also argue that the diff upgrade would actually improve fuel economy through the better gearing ie less effort to get the car off the line and when at speed to reduce the need to drop a gear on some slopes / hilly roads. I'm also drooling at the thought of improving throttle response further :)

I'm on the side that says a schedule sort of like thas:


2012-World Release / 2013 North America debut
2016-2017 - Mostly Cosmetic Update (4 years later)
2019-2020 - Full re-design with same principles (2+2, NA, RWD, lightweight) (2 years after that)


Until 2019, there will be more low volume cosmetic (Release Series, 10 series, TS, etc.) and track-type variants and probably more parts available via TRD/STi. What you won't see are any F.I. variants directly from the factory.

YEP! I think I am going to just copy this and repost it on the 10000 other new speculation threads that will come up over the next few months.
Unless of course that was your plan.

That sounds about right assuming the sales meet their projections. They may not do a full re-design. A facelift could suffice with some powertrain changes. The proportions and styling of the car seem like it will look new for many years.

2015 has slightly different front suspension though remember?
I think you mean it'll be the same car as 2015

Not this train again.........

Yesiree!
Only thread 8735 on the subject (counting the ones that didn't start out as such but transgressed to it).
Gonna write up a standard response and start just copying it in every time we go down this road.
Of course could just ignore them but my forum OCD won't let me.

The FT1 is not going to compete with the 100K GTR. If anything ... I see the FT1 competing with the C7. It will require FI since we all know that Toyota does not like large displacement cars. Ive said this before. The 86 slots in at 25K. The upcoming FT1 will most likely be 50-60K. What fills the area between 25K and 50K?

It's still the same car though. Talking MAJOR changes.

Only natural for slight changes to happen to a model every couple years or so. Spring or damping changes is very minor. When we start talking about engine/drivetrain differences, then I'd consider it being different.

Probably nothing. The manufacturers are not concerned with trying to fill every possible price point. If prices were in a liner sequence of models then they just rob their own upper or lower model sales so maintaining a buffer between is actually a good business plan. Like people have said in several hundred posts before, the gap could very nicely be filled by the high end used car market.

Welll...
 

My opinion...i've always felt the car is all about the aftermarket scene! Clean and beautiful canvas (some one said before). Part of the fun of owning a twin is making it your own...

Copy....for future paste

Tada has already said repeatedly in public they have three levels planned, with the lowest one coming in below the GT86. The US target price is supposed to be $20K.

That would allow the twins to settle at the $30K mark. The FT1 would come in between $40K and $50K. All three levels would theoretically give you more sports car for less money than their rivals.

I thinkk nothing as well. In the 90s toyota had the supra as the high end sports car, the mr2 as the lower end sports car, and the celica as the sportish grocery getter.

When the supra comes out, the frs and tc will essentially be the "mr2" and "celica" of the 90s.

History sure has a way of repeating itself.

Exactly. I pretty much wrote a thesis on the subject on one of the other threads. The days of the car companies making multiple marks, with large numbers of trim levels and almost endless power/tranny options is long gone. They will pretty much stick to the line up you described with just enough changes to keep them "fresh".

Not if you include the celica gt4

The sub-86 is an entirely different platform. It's not an FT1 derivative. The TES T-Sports concept is theoretically supposed to be the basis for that vehicle.

I can't seem to find this concept car, could you post a picture?

Whoever designed the styling of that car needs to have all his pencils broken. :barf:

http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/word...o-Salon-02.jpg

It's likely the same guy responsible for the new, equally vomit-inducing Daihatsu Copen. :slap:

https://img03.carview.co.jp/trade/im...u+copen/03.jpg

It looks like it took a page out of the nissan idx concept

That thing continues to piss me off. Nissan's infatuation with CVTs is infuriating. I'm a Nissan guy; I've been in Skylines of all types for years, Silvias and 180SXes too and as I look for a new car, they have nothing for me, but the 370Z which is about as exciting as dry toast.

I didn't like it when Toyota tried to invoke the memory of the hachiroku to sell the new car, it's marketing bs. The idx is purposefully trying to recall the 510 and most of my Nissan cohorts are eating it up, but then Nissan does what Nissan does, they get vague and start talking about weak engines and CVTs with little buttons as if it's a proper manual.

You know what, Nissan, **** you. Enough of your shit. Leave that crate of R32 parts by the door and leave your garage keys in the bowl. We are done. I want to see other cars.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...psb9da8449.jpg

And no, it's NOT me, it IS you.

Way to let them down easy....

It's going to be harder to talk to Mazda. I still love them, but their RX7 is the one I have to sell to make room for the BRZ. :cry:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps9ff73f1a.jpg

I read and re-read my post, and I can't find any place where I said or implied anything even remotely close to that.

The first-gen FR-S will be the best of them all, since it it was designed and built by gearheads despite the best efforts of the money-men.

ETA: It's not about power or straight-line speed. If you cant have fun in a stock FR-S on the street or track, YOU SUCK AS A DRIVER, and no amount of trickery or gadgets will make you better.

ETA: How f-ing hard is it to understand that the FR-S/BRZ/86 is a car designed to a price-point? It is jammed in a very narrow window, and to make it a significantly better car will put it into BMW and Mercedes money.

There has not been a better basic learn-to-drive-well car than this in forever.

Tromatic ... I totally agree with you. But all these cosmetic enhancements to the original 86 is the bean counter's way to make more money on the same platform. Some minimal power upgrades (20-50hp) would further the 86 platform for future buyers. I know ... Im just dreaming!

Time for a supercharger or a turbo from the manufacturer.

The 86 is a great car, especially for the price, but that doesn't mean the car is perfect. There are simple and relatively cheap adjustments that could be made to the car that would make it even better.

Amen.

The 90's had the economy to support 3 sports cars in a Japanese company's lineup though.

1990's

Nissan had the Skyline, 300ZX, GTiR Pulsar and Silvia
Toyota had the Supra, MR2 and Celica
Mazda had the RX7 and MX5 (Miata)
Mitsubishi had the 3000GT, the FTO, the EVO 2-5 and the Eclipse in North America
Honda had the NSX, Integra, S2000, Prelude, Del Sol
Subaru had the WRX

NOW

Nissan has the 370Z and the GTR
Toyota has the GT86
Mazda has the MX5 (Not going to include the MPS as that isn't a sports car)
Mitsubishi has the EVO (Which won't be around much longer)
Honda has... nothing really.
Subaru has the WRX and the BRZ

So the only company that has more sports cars than they did back then is Subaru, who isn't the sole owner of the BRZ development platform.

The reverse is true of European manufacturers.

90's Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Aston Martin had fewer models.

What this tells you is that European companies see a larger market for sports cars and to the market a European car like an AMG is more attractive than a Japanese equivalent. Japanese don't see the point in proliferating sports cars when they're already doing so well with white goods cars and people movers.

If anything we should be happy we got the 86/BRZ at all.

You forgot a couple of cars there like the RCF, Lancer Ralliart, Mazdaspeed3(you listed several cars from the 90s that are not sports cars), Civic Si/Type R, and the Skyline (g37).