FA20 Stock Capacity
 

So, after talking to a handful of different shops who have all worked closely with the FA20, I'm hearing some say that the FA20 can handle a max of about 330hp before internals start to go.

I'm sure everyone has their opinions and experiences, but what is the general consensus here?

There are three main things I'm being told by shops who have worked with and tuned these themselves:

* No more than 330 (one even said no more than 220)
* No forced induction / Only go N/A with IHE
* No E85 unless Stock

The shop consensus is that these motors are blowing because of too much heat in the cylinders... Pistons are warping, etc. A couple say this is because of the 12.5:1 compression.

So, the real question is... Unless you fully build the internals (which apparently can't handle any FI at all), what are the alternatives to making more than stock HP? (the shop that said 220 max said he replaces one FA20 a week)

Is a swap really the only alternative to completely building the internals?

No E85 unless Stock?
why?

From what I have come to learn through reading others experiences, keeping from 280hp-300hp is your best bet for the stock engine to survive on pumpgas.

Just curious.

If shops are saying dont go above 330hp and at the same time dont go forced induction how would anyone get above (or even to) 300 hp without going forced induction?

If your going to eventually build the engine, dont listen to them. @woode can chime in at any time, but you also have to take into consideration how well they actually got to know the engine. Theres several members with more than 330whp on pump gas and still going strong thousands of miles later. But if you dont ever want to rebuild the engine, in the entire life span of the car, then yes stick to 300whp.

FI is fine, it all revolves around the tune, these shops havent seen this forum yet apparently...

You, young padawan have alot of research and thread sifting to do.

Lolz at don't go above 220whp

I know a guy personally at 471whp on stock block. He ran it for about 9 months before pulling the engine because he wanted to turn up the boost safely. Redline daily. It's all about the tune!!! E85 is your friend.

I'd say 300whp or so on 93 is your ceiling on stock block.

Run, don't walk, away from those shops. Find a different shop.

I've found it hit or miss. Some cars make 450 plus and seem to take it, for how long, not sure. They usually do a built motor before the stock lets go. Then you have 250whp cars with conservative and safe tunes that chuck rods for some reason. It seems really hit or miss. I have seen 3 blown up at the shop. All had windows in the top of the block from rods/wrist pins letting go

Pretty normal from Toni

Sorry its pure speculation at this point. No one knows for sure. The engine is still to new. Not enough data. But if your going to boost your car, you need to have the mentality that when something breaks, I am going to re-build with better internals. Gotta pay to play! As other mentioned, pay the money for a proper install and solid tune.

If some cars are holding at 450+ without issue, and some let go with "conservative" tunes at 250, that is a tune issue. The window of error in that is gigantic. If the cars making 450+, only made it one time, then sure. But the fact that there are a lot making that much power for months and quickly approaching a year, that screams tune issues to me.

I don't know what you guys are all arguing about. This little engine can handle over 9,000 :P

Tune issues or not, when you physically hold the rods/wrist pins from an fa20 in your hand you will wonder why you ever risked it lol. There is not much there at all

Sorry, to clarify, the shop that said no E85 unless stock and no FI at all was the one that quoted 220 as the max.

Definitely understandable that it's really a toss up at the moment, but on all stock internals, all the other shops seem to be saying 300-330.

I've been following this forum for quite some time (since it launched YEARS ago), but haven't become a member yet. I've seen all these other owners crank out 300 and run E85 without problems, so I was a bit confused. Just wanted to know if there was a consensus among the forum members. Seems to be around the 300 mark as well (without stronger internals).

@spitfire481 Having mentioned you held them in your hands, what would have to be your educated guess? (not discounting everyone else, mind you)

13,000 miles all e85 (no pumpgas at all since the very first tank) and all at 460whp 390+wtq. 3 transmissions and 1 set of brakes destroyed. Stock engine still holding together. Remember subaru put a turbo and a vastly inferior efi on the Fa20dit on the same rods and block and sell it to us with a warranty at 300hp in the wrx.

That is one of the other things a lot of them were saying... That if it wasn't the motor, the tranny would go. Good to hear about your engine, @Reaper.

Did you build it to 460 over time? Or did you build it that way from the start and haven't changed it? I'm just curious if you remember at what hp your transmissions started getting unreliable.

Before you think it's hp that kills transmissions; it's the torque.


The manual transmission is fragile for anything under 300wtq. After that it gets sketchy, and around the 390-400wtq makes it a ticking time bomb. The auto trans hasnt broken yet and there's upgrades for those as well. The transmission swaps from a 6spd to another 6spd so far are rediculously pricey, yet sequential trans swaps make those look cheap.

V160-8 to 10k $ tremec-5 to 6k $ hollinger/quaife/drenth/hks 17,500 to 22k $ I'm on my 3rd stock transmission at 500$

Any worthy gear upgrades?

And, are they really $500 brand new?? If so, might make more sense monetarily to simply keep a couple new stock trannies in the garage after I hit 300+wtq. Hahah.

Just to harp on this, that V160 price is out-the-door and installed with labor. Brand new V160 is about $6k or so.

They Are 2600 new. I bought a few used ones for 500-800$ and keep spares. I'm on my 3rd so far in under 13,000 miles. Getting old real quick.

6k for the transmission, 2.2k for the clutch/flywheel/slave cylinder. Then add in the driveshaft, shifter and bellhousing, cross member...ended up being over 8 k for me to do all the labor not including shipping.

You're overdue for a v160 fullblown conversion...

It's a shame this gearbox can't handle much power. Whereas my e153 from 1993 era can take 800+whp. I feel jipped...

See the above post. 8.2k$ before shipping.

The car is fun and I enjoy it but once my stash of cheap oem transmissions are all broken I'm done with the frs.

Yea... saw that. But it really is the only formidible solution to holding power :(

Why not just lower the boost?

To what? I just replaced a transmission in a car with 350whp last week and 3 of my local buddies just did ones in their stock frs' this summer. Stock power is breaking them too. I just don't like my options right now of either 20k $ for a sequential or 8+k $ for a transmission that isn't even made anymore.

This is what i was afraid of, since I got my BRZ i've been on the wall as to whether i should turbo the car or not.

Coming from an 880hp with 600tq Evo to this I've been seriously missing the power but.. not in the mood to spend 10k on a tranny.

Almost time to dump this platform.

I just changed my tranny fluid today, and the sucker was BLACK! in extremely rough shape.

car shifts like butter now. lets see if it holds.

Yeah, I was agreeing with you. Totally worth it for the peace of mind to not worry about the tranny ever again.

These are the exact discussions that push toward selling my FRS. I have only tinted the windows. I thought this would be a good car to turbo with all of the hype behind it. I have owned the car since June of 2012 and think I may just sell it this Spring.

I always known the pay to play idea. Yet sounds like this thing is as delicate as kitchen china plates.

We have not killed any transmissions yet, but I expect it to happen for sure. I'm still hoping there is something the shop we sent a spare trans to can do to figure out a way to get it to hold more power. Probably still a few months out before hearing anything though

What about the transmissions from the E92 M3? They have V8's that spin to 8 and above I think.

If you don't intimately love the twins, or track yours, it probably is going to get old quick. For those who bought the twins with dreams of a blow-your-pants-off turbo rig, most have quite the rude awakening

Found this on CL.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/4782860741.html

I replied to this in the other thread. No reverse, no real first gear, no clutch disk/flywheel combo that fits our car.

Has anybody tried strengthening the stock gearbox though metal treating processes? Seems like a viable cost effective power holding solution. Disassemble the gearbox, send the gears to treating then reassemble. Mind you, 400whp and whatever tq is all I would ever want out of this car. But metal treating could be worth a shot. Anything more than 450hp in this car and you're just better off buying something different and beastly.

What the hell are you guys doing? Lol. Tons of track junkies here have zero problems.(stock power)