Why ft-86 is interesting?
 

Hi all,

First time posting here after lurking for a while. I just checked today's Autoblog news about the FT-86 being a Scion and costing $25k base.

My question is, what does this car have (other than looks) that makes it so special over other competitors? I know that it will have a boxer 4 engine similar to ones in the base NA Subaru Imprezas (maybe with DI or some other new tech added).

The Mazda MX-5 will likely be similar in size and have a power to ratio similar or better than the FT-86's (MX-5 = 170hp 2500lb; FT-86 = 170hp 2700lb+ considering that the 2.5L Subaru produces 170 and that FT will have a 2.0L and that the car will be slightly bigger than a MX-5 with bigger wheels).

More interesting arguments can be made using P-to-W ratio of considerably heavier cars such as the WRX and the V6 Mustang, but I guess we can save them for later.

So... my question to you guys is... what factors, other thank looks (I will be honest and I personally developed my initial interest of the car after seeing the concept pics), make you guys so interested in this car?

It is supposed to have around 200hp to start with..
And NOT a scion haha

I presently drive a Miata and here in Arizona a drop top is not all that great. I prefer small sport/sporty cars and I prefer a coupe over a convertible. I also like rwd. And I really like the looks from what I've seen so far.

200hp, sub 2700lb, rwd toyota @$25k.

Hopefully with supreme balance and dynamics.

And it looks sexy.

Did you really need to ask that question?

The MX-5 is a convertible, and personally I'm not into convertibles. There is nothing else in the market that fits the particular niche the FT-86 will be in. Genesis/Mustang? Too heavy, and the mustang is more about brute force (though I'm hearing great things about this latest one). Everything is either way more expensive and upmarket.. it's a return to a world that has been dead since the late 80's-90's.

Light weight. Rear wheel drive. Fun to drive with low COG and peppy motor... Exactly what this car has said its gonna be from the start. No supra/mr2/celica replacement. Its its own car with no other car in its class.

Thank you very much for the fast replies!!!

Another quick question. Where are you guys getting the info for 200hp? I think it would be really great if the 2.0L N/A H4 can produce 200hp, considering that the current NA Impreza only produces 170hp with a 2.5L. I heard that DI and other tech can help boost the output, but I haven't seen any credible source saying that the FT-86 engine will produce 200hp.

From the begining its been said to be a 200ish hp 2.0 RWD TOYOTA.

It helps reading the forums ;) there are alot of rumors but it's bot hard filtering through the bs :)
This engine will have D4-S which is both direct and standard injection giving greater fuel delivery controll with good fuel economy and great performance with reduced risk of knock ;)

200hp is easy to obtain on a 2.0 N/A flat4. You have to remember that there are currently no engines to accurately contrast with the D-4S. Even if there are flat4 engines everywhere, they were not built the same way the engine the FT86 engine will house. Boosting the compression ratio and raising the RPM limit is already a formula for giving a substantial amount of power increase. Mated with a Direct injection and more sophisticated engine management, 200hp is a walk in the park.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100

Plus if it isn't at least 200 people are going to walk on this thing. We already have to wait years for it to come out, it sure as hell better have more than 170 hp

You people are out of your ever lovin minds.
First off, look at the subaru 2.5L boxer, it puts out 165hp at the crank.
You make cheap cars with off the shelf parts.
Only way it's going to be 200hp is with a turbo.

Second, they've never released the weight, they don't even have a final production version, how on earth you think it's going to be sub 2700lb which is the weight of the old 1990's civics and integras, I do not know. But either way it remains to be seen.

3rd, It doesn't even have front double wishbone, so supreme handling is out of the question. Also, it's not mid-engined so supreme balance is also out of the question.

I hope they release the damn thing soon so you people can come back to reality. Seems like you think this thing is going to set some nurburgring records or something.

1st of all, you are retarded
2nd of all toyotas OBJECTIVE for this car was to make a low COG car that weight under 2600lb.
3rd the current 2.5L boxer is many, many years old design and is outdated technology. this engine employs new technologies
4th where did you get the no double wishbone suspension from??

Yea, I just wish Toyota would release more information about this car already as the production model specs should be finalized latest by mid-late 2011 for the car to hit the US dealers in 2012.

I think the 2700 pounds weight is achievable considering that 2011 Mazda MX-5 weighs 2500 pounds with slightly smaller dimensions.

200hp seems to be more questionable to me (well I am a car noob...), but I think people have their own views about this, so I will leave it alone.

I know I shouldn't be crapping on this forum and the car (specially considering that no official numbers are out...), but it seems like I am being convinced every day to go for a slightly heavier car with a significant hp advantage. (e.g., 370Zs seem to go for 2k-3k below invoice around Oct-Nov for older MYs) I know that there is some price difference, but nothing that a couple of months of saving can't overcome... especially considering that some of us have been and will be waiting for this car for such a long time.

I second that and add

5th STi 2.0L in Japan has more power than 2.5L in the US. It all depends on the states regulation that make them tune or detune the engine. Getting 200hp by tuning up and re mapping ECU on 2.0L H4 motor is not really hard.

They've taken shots of the undercarriage and it has macphersons up front. Not a surprise it based off the impreza and no other car I can think of since honda in the early 2000's has had full double wishbones. It will still handle well, but you can't say anything with macpherson on the front handles supreme. Macpherson has no dynamic camber control.

The weight remains to be seen. One of the reasons I keep up on news is because it might be lightweight.

The current boxer is not that old. Subaru just released a new boxer with DI, fancy cooling and other things and it only gets 10% better mileage with the same power output. This is the engine they release 2 weeks ago.

Subaru had one 2L engine that made about 180hp, but it was only released in japan. Hey if they want to develop a one off engine for the ft-86 I'm all for it, but the car is supposed to be cheap too.

If they would just hurry up and release the damn car we could compare it to other cars, but until then it's all speculation.

:popcorn:

I`ll be just out here on the bench enjoy this thread.

Actually I beleave the new Gen FB20 engine is still yet to be fitted with DI. If you look at the Pictures it is still only has MPFI.

So far the FT86 Will only get D4-S

^ 'Only' D4-S?

D4-S is better than both Direct Injection and Port injection... Because it's a combination of the two.

I like the Concept of D4-S. Vast improvement over just using DI. Best of both worlds.
The new Subaru block still looks like it uses MPFI.
So if thats the case you can get even better fuel eccommony and power out of the new Gen FB20. So more than the 10% increase that subaru says for there engine.

lol itchi join in u make some of the best posts ahhaha
please do show the pic with macpherson up front (remember just cus the spring and shock is in one package doesnt mean its macpherson or chapman strut.. it has to be PHYSICALLY attached to the wheel DIRCTLY in a FIXED manner, with more than ONE bolt to be a macpherson/chapman) so PROOF PLEASE cus thats news to me..

and learn what D4-S is b4 commenting on it..
also this isnt a subaru engine.. its a subaru block with toyota/yamaha heads.. will more than likely have vvtl-i or the new valvetronic controll.

^ It's valvematic :)

But I would guess if Toyota included valvematic and D4-S (confirmed already for D4-S?) then this engine should make over 200hp N/A, but only if Toyota tunes it for performance over economy.

I very much doubt this will be MacPherson strut, I think it will most likely be double wishbone.

How about you get back in your little fwd Honda and roll the fuck on out of here?

The current batch of Subaru boxers aren't built for NA performance. This is why Toyota is redoing the head, with their own technology. Even if they didn't, There is one example, that shows it can be done and It makes 197ps. Check around next time before you come on here and spout rubbish.

With respect to the weight, have you seen how much a Miata weighs? Have you seen the size of this car? Actually, I think this is the one area where Toyota can properly balls this up, so I'm tempering my expectations, but lightweight is a focus of this car, and anything more than 2650-2700lbs in my book will be fail.

Next, I know it has McPhersons up front. I never claimed any different. That statement expressed the desire of another poster, not a claimed fact. Front double wishbones are not a necessity for supreme handling, ask BMW and their entire line of 3 series sedans & coupes, including the M3s.

Lastly, mid engined cars are usually rear weight biased, and while imo that is truly where the engine belongs, is not for inexperienced drivers. Trust me, I've ditched enough MR2s to know this. The boxer will be FMR (mid as in between the axles, but in front of the driver), some of the advantages of a regular MR, but without the disadvantage of being rear weight biased (as most MR cars are, around 42/58 to 45/55), and without the weight of the engine over the rear wheels making for the entertaining phenomenon known as snap oversteer. Hopefully it will have 50/50 or close to it, dynamic weight distribution (as in when the car is moving), or at least 50/50 static distribution to keep people like you who don't know anything happy.

Nobody is expecting this car to set any ring records or anything of the sort. We just want it to be quick, reliable, economical and FUN, with the ability to be modded to ones taste, and if you can't grasp that, you don't get this car nor 90% of the people who are here on this board.

valvematic thats right i keep mixing it up with the bmw one haha
matadore, i missed where it was said it will have macphersons up front.. do u have a linky :(

Had this thread awhile ago... All speculation from us, but still good stuff.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...alk+suspension

:popcorn:

I think New gen boxer doesn't equip with DI yet. How the he** is this guy claiming it is?
I didn't know about suspension tho.

That does say struts up front.... But it also says 1000kg...

Just sayin'. :iono:

Making a new car with all standard safety features weight 1000kg is just a fantasy.

Erm, That's an interview with the car's chief engineer. Remember that Toyota will be modifying the heads of whichever boxer engine they choose to use. so it really is fairly irrelevant that the new boxer engine uses DI or not. In fact, I distinctly remember him saying somewhere "we could be greedy and try to get 230ps.." but something with considerations for emissions and economy.

Granted, but that may have just been an overly ambitious initial target. Dig around the general section, there has been a lot of info with interviews and so on posted.

No need to get up in arms, lots of great handling cars use McPherson struts, and in the interest of cost and considerations for the width of the boxer engine, it is the most likely solution. Trust me, I'd be thrilled if the choose to use double wishbones up front, but I'd rather just expect the struts and be pleasantly surprised, than get my hopes up and be disappointed for no good reason.

I was replying to overvolting dude.
I agree with you Matador, there is no such a thing as " no such a thing". make 200hp out of 2.0L NA isn't an impossible task for a big and full-of-technology automaker like Toyota. They just need some time.

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see :)

Though MacPherson just means a strut bar will do more for handling compared to a double wishbone setup (because the shocks/springs exert a horizontal force too)!

But as for the cost, then why are they using DW on the rear? Considerations for the boxer is a fair enough point. :thumbup:

aaaah i gotcha :)
cheers for that man

That is how the platform they are allegedly basing it on is already setup. DW rear, Struts up front.

I would but, I`m current in Japan and enjoying my vacation (driving touge here and there). When I come back, I`ll post like I used to... but til then :popcorn:

Nah, It's just an excuse for being lazy..

true... true... can`t denied that

Mazda set a goal of bringing the the next gen miata at or close to 2200 pounds.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/04/m...next-gen-mx-5/

Oh god not this again. 200 hp was never confirmed, it's still a rumor. For the engine to make that it will have to rev high, and there's no indication yet it will do so. Otherwise, you will need to put out some major torque to get there, and I'm not sure that direct injection is that magical.

Toyota Celica 1.8L pushing 190hp. I don't see why 2.0L boxer 4 with DI, which is developing by Toyota, can't make 200hp NA. If it's not 200hp, it should be close. It's a do or die goal for the car. If they can't do it, they should not bother making the car.