Oil Pressure and Temperature Guide Video
 

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDfFJ5s6IDg"]FRS - BRZ Oil Pressure and Temperature Tech FA20 - YouTube[/ame]


STREET TEMPS
0W20 Redline

0w20 Redline 185F @ 800RPM 10PSI Oil Pressure
0w20 Redline 185F @ 2000RPM 35PSI Oil Pressure
0w20 Redline 185F @ 4000RPM 54PSI Oil Pressure
0w20 Redline 185F @ 7000RPM 65PSI Oil Pressure

10W30 Redline

10w30 Redline 185F @ 800RPM 19PSI Oil Pressure
10w30 Redline 185F @ 2000RPM 51PSI Oil Pressure
10w30 Redline 185F @ 4000RPM 65PSI Oil Pressure
10w30 Redline 185F @ 7000RPM 83PSI Oil Pressure

10W40 Redline

10w40 Redline 185F @ 800RPM 25PSI Oil Pressure
10w40 Redline 185F @ 2000RPM 64PSI Oil Pressure
10w40 Redline 185F @ 4000RPM 78PSI Oil Pressure
10w40 Redline 185F @ 7000RPM 91PSI Oil Pressure


TRACK TEMPS AFTER 9 LAPS @ 1 Minute 15 Seconds Per Lap
0W20 Redline

0w20 Redline 225F @ 800RPM 7PSI Oil Pressure
0w20 Redline 225F @ 2000RPM 30PSI Oil Pressure
0w20 Redline 225F @ 4000RPM 48PSI Oil Pressure
0w20 Redline 225F @ 7000RPM 43PSI Oil Pressure


10W30 Redline

10w30 Redline 245F @ 800RPM 7PSI Oil Pressure
10w30 Redline 245F @ 2000RPM 35PSI Oil Pressure
10w30 Redline 245F @ 4000RPM 52PSI Oil Pressure
10w30 Redline 245F @ 7000RPM 46PSI Oil Pressure

10W40 Redline (12 Laps)

10w40 Redline 265F @ 800RPM 8PSI Oil Pressure
10w40 Redline 265F @ 2000RPM 31PSI Oil Pressure
10w40 Redline 265F @ 4000RPM 55PSI Oil Pressure
10w40 Redline 265F @ 7000RPM 45PSI Oil Pressure

I have a quick question about your data.

When comparing 0w-20 to 10w-30, did the 10w-30 heat up an additional 20 degrees under the same conditions? Or did you let up once the 0w-20 got to 225?

Once the 0w20 hit 225-230 oil pressure on track was 40psi. Too risky to push. However that said when the motor was fresh i ran 0w20 to 265F and had clean used oil analysis. BUt thats not smart doing long term nor on higher gforce tracks.

Should the take away from this be nail your oil cooling setup down before chasing pressure with thicker oils?

I'd think going bigger and bigger oil radiator wise until you can't hit your minimum pressure would be easier to manage than trying to bump up weight. Once you've done that log your oil temps, and run block off plates accordingly for the street. Would you agree?

i realised oil pressure was also low on our race car, i am happy to see you are experimenting the same thing. I think we will try an oil accumulator, anyone ever tried those to see if it helps regulate stuff?

Sorry to revive an old thread but I installed a Defi Oil pressure guage recently.

The pressure sensor is located on the top gallery to the left of the AC which reads ~10psi lower than the stock pressure switch location.

Anyway, doing some testing this morning, I was seeing ~5BAR (~70psi) from 5-7.5k rpm with oil temps at around 100-105C (212F - 221F).

That is significantly higher than the ~43psi @225F you measured. My car is completely stock except I am running 0W20 Millers Nanodrive Oil.

I know the oil cooler can knock around 14psi off the pressure at higher temps but 27psi difference :iono:

Where are you measuring oil temp? Im using a ODB reader to get oil temp from the stock sensor.

Think deloris has sold his frs, but from video he installed pressure sender at top of block and is using standard temp sender.

see thread and post below couple of other guys getting sumilar readings some with and without oil coolers

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1757083

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=22

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=34

I took it up to 250F last night. Pressure at 7k rpms was ~3.6-3.7 bar ~52-54psi.

I think it must be a combination of the Miller Nanodrive 0W20 (stays thick at high temps :iono:) and the fact that I dont have an oil cooler.

dealers in australia and south africa are putting in 5w30 or 10w30 at standard service in some cases.

The block location is where you would want to take readings. Most common threat to this motor is skimming bearings. And the fact the block location is reading lower is indicative of that you need to be careful running higher temps on 0w20 namely in track conditions.

Your nanodrive doesn't stay "thick" at high temps, as its cSt is documented at various temperatures. Its viscosity change with temp performs as it should for it's rating.

1: I think you have too little pressure and it needs to be addressed.
2: I also think that pressure should be addressed without unnecessarily sacrificing flow.
3: Increasing viscosity increases pressure not flow, however an increase in viscosity may also be warranted to account for the higher than designed oil temps (aka: maintaining at target cSt at a given temp).

I've experienced the oil-cooler pressure drop on Hondas and from reading about this car the same phenomenon occurs. It stands to reason that's why your pressure reading is greater than on cars with coolers.

So it is my opinion that 2 things need to occur: increase oil viscosity due to your increased temps and increase system pressure by decreasing how much system pressure can be relieved via the pressure relief valve by adding a shim (washer) to the PRV. I bet a 1/8th" thick washer will give you ~10psi

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=142

Pic borrowed from Element tuning and modified:
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/...psvtrkyhei.png

I actually spent last weekend shimming the PRV on my race car because I had a new engine built and thought I had shimmed the pump and I was breaking in the new engine and saw I was about 10psi below where I wanted to be. When I pulled out the PRV I saw I had indeed forgot the shim. Put it in and back is my 10psi. I did this because I didn't want to run a thicker oil, I wanted to increase both flow and pressure and it's why my race engines have gone the distance.

You brought this up in another thread it makes all the sense in the world to me. I'm in Seattle and I buy cases of Amsoil 0w-30 in the race car so I now also use that in the FRS.

I run Castrol Edge 0-40 on a track BRZ. Was just at WG for 2 days and never saw below 50 psi with temps in the 240-260 range. This is running a 2:19 lap time so I am hammering the car, doesn't seem bad to me.

I went through the GT86 cup user manual:
http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/mot...al_2014_02.pdf

They're suggesting ELF HTX 825 10W60. Thought it might be pertinent here.

Pertinent!?! :eyebulge:

I think so. It illustrates exactly what the data in this thread suggests and also makes what I've been saying all that more logical! (well, to me at least)

So that manual recommends a 60wt oil vs the 20wt that's stock. That's a huge eye opener for anyone tracking their car and a huge jump in viscosity. It suggests that pressure is very important as the difference of system pressure between a 20wt and a 60wt will be very noticeable. Just look at Dezoris's data when he went from 20wt to a 40wt at a static temp (185F). He realized a 26psi difference at 7000rpms between the 2 oils. Bump that viscosity by another 20wt and voila.

So why does this make what I say logical? The answer is delta. (no not that Delta).

It provides us more data on what types of pressures are needed for proper protection of these engines in track conditions. So if I track my car I need the pressure increase from a super thick oil but when I'm done tracking my car should I really be driving to and from the grocery store on a 10w-60? I don't want to, but I also don't want to change my oil before and after each track day.

The solution brings me back to the shim in the PRV which should give enough of a bump in pressure such that one would be able run a 0w-30 around town and at the track without needing to constantly swap out various types of oil.


Edit: that GT86 manual also shows an oil cooler and the 10w-60 pressure increase most likely also accounts for the oil cooler pressure drop as well.

TMG list the oil cooler as optional. I this running a thicker oil is the way forward. TRD japan also recommend a heavier oil.

Cirtainly a 10W60 will keep pressures up!! It might be okay for me to use a 10W40 as my car is garaged and generally comes out with oil temps greater than 0C.

The oil pump is fixed flow (except when pressure relief is open). Pressure is determined by resistance in the system. More resistant (for example smaller bearing clearances) with give more pressure but the pump will guarantee flow unless the relief valve is active.

offtopic
@bur****jp: thanks for linked doc. I noticed many interesting bits in that document. Like race ecu update, Thermostat opening temps, diff final gear ratios, diff oil cooler, custom headers & twin pipe catalysator exhaust system which is homologized (wonder if it's street legal on stock twins?), lightweight windows, billstein shocks, specific rollbars/struts and so on .. wondering if something from that can be ordered/fitted on our cars especially exhaust system/ecu..

I dont think the ecu would be physically different, it will just have different rom to suit exhaust maybe some other tweaks, just need somone to pull rom from one of those with tactrix or similar device.

Is there a trade off with doing this? Too high a pressure when cold?

Yes!

Pressures are quite high cold as it is really. At 100C on 0w20 it gives a perfect 10psi/1k so thicker oil is too a compromise....

You're right, however he was asking about pressure at cold. I can't answer this definitively. The reason is that on the cars where I've shimmed the pump, I've only witnessed a small increase in pressure at start up @ idle when cold.

A small shim (small pressure bump) and a 0w-30 may be an excellent compromise for double duty (track/DD) car. But shim or no shim, it's always, ALWAYS, best to let your car warm up before you rev it high or drive it hard. :D

Things just keep getting interesting in the oil department.

I am interested how everyone is getting the oil so hot. I can drive around spirited in 80F and only hit 180F oil temp. I am seeing people hit 220F on their drive to work.

What I am reading is to bump to 0w-30, shim the pump, and watch temps/psi. Sound correct?

Are you tracking your car? If not you don't need to do anything at all, stick with the factory recommended 0w-20 and enjoy years of trouble free reliability. Under track conditions it's pretty easy to push a stock car into the 280* range.

My car is a track car only. No oil cooler and it has been on track since it was 70 miles old. Currently has header, no cats and a Borla exhaust, intake, tune, suspension, all the usual sutff. Running 0-40 Castrol Edge I can guarantee that the oil will be between 248-257º, depending on ambient temp. Other BRZ/FRS guys see higher temps than I do, I have been doing this for a long time, I am not kind to my car. Oil pressure never drops below 50 psi. Will I spin a bearing eventually? Probably, but the car has 14,xxx miles so far and I just doesn't seem to care what I do to it. I might go up a grade on the next oil change to see what happens. I personally don't think doing 20 minute DE sessions under these conditions is doing much harm. Racing would be a different story.

I plan on 2-3 track days this year, Auto-X (once I get weekends off), and many spirited "Canyon" Runs.

interested in thoughts and comments on my post in the forester oil cooler thread - http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=474

the data is from multiple track events, i will note the above cruising on the highway i can get there, even with this oil cooler (vid in link)

I actually found that my oil temp gauge(tapped into the galley plug) read anywhere from 20°-48°F cooler than my OFT reports. I cruise at 210°