Is the Scion FR-S a bad deal?
 

I really like all the styling differences about the Scion FR-S but I just realized that for only $2500 over an FR-S with BeSpoke, the BRZ Limited adds:

-Voice-Activated Navigation/DVD Player/XM Satellite Radio/Traffic with Android Support
-HID Headlights
-LED Daytime Running Lights
-Fog Lights
-Red Stitched Leather E-Brake Handle
-Red Stitched Leather/Alcantara Front and Rear Seats
-Heated Front Seats
-Heated Side Mirrors
-Illuminated Vanity Mirrors
-Auto/Dual Zone Climate Controls with Display
-Keyless Entry and Start
-Premium Anti-Theft Security System
-Rear Spoiler (Do not want)
-Trunk Liner

And for another $250 Subaru offers an Auto-Dim Mirror with Compass and HomeLink.

That's almost too good of a deal to pass up! I really wish Scion would get off their low horse and offer the same options or trim Toyota offers everywhere else in the world and that their competitor Subaru offers for only a little more money! Not to mention the possibility of negotiating a lower price with Subaru dealers vs. Scion's pure-price fix. Sigh... what to do? :(

Depends. Do you want those things? If so, then yes, the BRZ is a better deal, no doubt. The downside is availability - good luck finding a BRZ this year. Most dealers have sold their allocations for 2012 already. You'll be waiting for at least 6 months for a car.

I don't care about creature comforts, personally. They add weight, and weight is the enemy of speed. I want a quick, nimble, no-frills cornering machine. That makes the FR-S perfect for me.

What sold me on the BRZ:

1) I liked the front bumper look more than FR-S
2) HID are expensive if retrofitted and not warrantied/insured as far as accident are concerned. A quality job will cost more than $500. HID in stock housing is what many will do for like $100 but its not my thing.
3) Don't really like built in nav but I won't have to spend the $200 or so on a window mount unit and the touchscreen looks way better than the Scion stock headunit.

For $1000 more than FRS I think that is pretty good value.

Weight difference between FRS and BRZ Premium is 4 lbs.

Yeah, that's true. There is likely no way I could get a BRZ this year. But I was considering holding off a year on the FR-S anyway. Do I really want those things? Well, the navigation, SiriusXM, and Android support are pretty much requirements for me so I'd probably have to buy an expensive aftermarket unit instead of the BeSpoke for the FR-S. The HID headlights and foglights are also something I really wanted in a new car so I was planning to import the HID/LED headlamps from the German GT86. The leather/Alcantara seats are also requirements for me as I just don't like the look or feel of cloth so I'll have to buy those from Subaru. I do not care for heated seats though. I don't need the auto/dual-zone climate controls but I was pretty disappointed with how the standard manual controls felt on the FR-S and it would be nice to have an inside temperature display. And everything else is basically a bonus. But again, I'm not a fan of the styling of the BRZ and I think I would prefer Scion's suspension setup. So I really don't know what to do. Either way, I'd have to modify it a lot to get it the way I want. :sigh:

You are asking a rhetorical question. What is good/bad for you may not be good/bad for someone else.

+1 (in my opinion)

OK, well let me put it this way. For an extra $500 over an FR-S with BeSpoke, you can get the BRZ Premium with:

-Voice-Activated Navigation/DVD Player/XM Satellite Radio/Traffic with Android Support
-HID Headlights
-LED Daytime Running Lights
-Red Stitched Leather E-Brake Handle
-Premium Cloth Front and Rear Seats
-Trunk Liner

Those options don't add weight and improve the quality, look, feel, usability, and night-time visability. As another member said, if the FR-S had only included HID/LED headlamps and the red stitched leather e-brake handle for the same price as they are selling now, it would have been a much better deal!

I personally love the base FR-S. It reminds me of the plain-jane approach to creature comforts that's older sports cars had.

I went with the BRZ (if i ever get it) for four reasons, and four reasons only:

A. Can't live without keyless entry and keyless start (DAMN YOU NISSAN!)
B. Wanted HID.
C. I like the Limited spoiler and the front better.
D. Leather/Alcantara seats.

Well worth the price difference to me.

For me, the 3k difference doesn't add up. I HATE stock NAV. I don't care about leather. The spoiler would be nice. The front end looks much better on the FRS than the BRZ. HID doesn't matter.

I'm assuming you meant "Can't live without." And that's the problem. For a lot of people, the FR-S would actually be a downgrade in a lot of ways from their current vehicle.

I don't think the FR-S is a bad deal, it's just another option. Everyone in this thread will just argue that the one they bought is the best and everything else sucks.

God this topic has been beat to death... Be glad there's a choice to begin with. Vote with your dollars.

And a lot of people probably think the extra cost for superfluous bits is a waste of money. Our Prius has radar cruise control and it parks itself, but I don't see not having that stuff on the FR-S as a downgrade from our current vehicle.

Just buy the BRZ if it fits your needs. I'll buy the FR-S because this is an extra vehicle that I won't be taking on roadtrips. I want the absolute minimum cost while still getting my 27xx curb weight, 200hp engine, 6MT transmission, and rear LSD. This is precisely why I don't care if they come out with a turbo or supercharged version. It will just add cost and I'm simply not going to pay $30k for a weekend toy. If I were a single guy without kids, I'd probably spring for the BRZ Limited.

i havent seen a brz without a markup since may20... so , just for that i dont like subaru.

but yes, why didnt SCION at least include the HID ... i hope the sell it later as an OPTION. that would be good but idk !

Just how much and how hard would it be to replace the stock frs headlights with the brz headlights:iono:

Doesn't the FR-S come with keyless entry?

It could be more difficult than you'd think. The headlamps are one of the first things they assemble at the factory so that kind of worries me. Besides, I would want the Toyota 86 style headlamps anyway. Not to mention, the BRZ's turn signal indicator is a part of the headlamp.

The FR-S is not that much cheaper. And there are plenty of Scion dealers adding $4k markups.

Even a $22k 2013 mustang has HIDS and LED daytime running lights...Come on Scion...They will fix this in the 2014 model year.

The FR-S needs HIDs, better stock stereo and the seat materials from the BRZ premium at the $25k price.

It does but the terminology is kind of tricky. You still have to get the key out and press a button to unlock the doors with the FR-S. But with the BRZ Limited, you can just walk up to it and open the door and press the engine start button. You never have to get the key out - you just have to have it on you. This is not a big deal but it is something you can get used to and it's nice when your hands are full.

I hope so. There is an official picture of a white Scion FR-S with the HID/LED headlamps floating around so it's possible!

And a nicer optional navigation system. :)

That sucks its the opposite here.

As I keep telling my friends:

Get the BRZ if youre looking for a daily driver replacement. They FR-S, while it is a good daily, is more suited to be the weekend/track car.

Quite frankly, if you're more worried about a trunk liner then the driving dynamics, youre looking at the wrong car entirely. :iono:

if there was only one company behind this car... this wouldnt be a problem =(

but that's part of the problem. although the BRZ offers some desirable amenities, its looks is not for everyone. i, for 1, find the front bumper, rear spoiler, and fake side vents of the BRZ ugly. so basically, i have to choose between a car who's exterior is more attractive to me while the interior being less attractive, or vice versa. if scion would only offer a-la-cart optioning for the FRS, they would make a lot more buyers happy while making additional profit from the options at the same time. i would love me an FRS with HID and dual climate...

I only added the trunk liner to the list for completion/accuracy. I doubt I would bother buying it if I got the FR-S. However, I DO care about the things I touch every day (no perv) like the seats and e-brake. And I DO care about my night-time visibility. And I DO care about styling. And I DO want navigation and satellite radio built in. I can live without the other things but they would certainly add some convenience/value to it. But don't give me that crap about buying a luxury car instead. Obviously the way it drives is most important to me. But this is NOT a Lotus Elise or a race car; it's a Toyota/Subaru so it should have modern features and comforts. ;)

not really. if toyota would sell their version in the U.S. the same way as they do in japan and europe then more U.S. buyers will be appeased.

And you and I are not the only ones. My brother also wanted the 86/FR-S when he first saw it. He doesn't like the BRZ styling either. But when he found out the final specs and realized how cheap Scion was, he changed his mind. He said he refuses to buy a Scion now and is looking at the new Genesis Coupe instead (not that I would ever want/recommend one). So I wonder how many sales Scion will lose because of their insistence to not sell a higher trim and more options. Or maybe they will surprise everyone and change soon?

yeah true, i wonder why the US has to have scion =.=

The BRZ also has automatic headlights, which is the only item I really want. The BRZ has a different suspension setup, which I don't know if I would want. Personally I'm not going to rush into a purchase and would prefer to wait until I can drive both the BRZ and FR-S in high cross-winds, since that's what I hate about my 2012 Impreza. I'm holding out hope that maybe for 2014 they will realize this is the only car for this price that doesn't have steering wheel controls, Scion will offer all-season tires on the car as reported, or they'll sell a Release Series with better electronics.

The point of Scion has always been base spec and you modify to your liking. If Scion had all the things available from the BRZ, what is the point of the BRZ?

That is why badge engineering was so bad for GM. The cars overlapped way too much in price and features, so customers were pitting the brands against each other and pitting the ridiculously large dealer network against each other.

By keeping Scion as the low spec, it sets the base price and targets the demographic that is going to want the stripper model to modify. The BRZ gets more grown up looks and more grown up features targeting a slightly different market. The reason they don't offer a la carte options like MINI, for example, is because Toyota and Subaru are probably already losing money on these cars in the US. Our dollar isn't worth shit so one way of reducing cost is to limit options. This means that inventory is much more flexible when it hits the US port and that saves money.

Scion might lose sales, but 75% of those sales will be going to the Subaru dealership instead of deciding they want a V6 Mustang or Genesis. If you choose a car with a completely different character over something as silly as HIDs, you probably weren't that serious about the FR-S in the first place. Scion didn't lose a "certain" sale. They lost a "well, we were in the running" sale. Same goes for someone going with a vastly different car because they don't like the plastic bumper skin on the twin. I'd wager that 95% of the people think that both cars look great and it is just slight preference to one or the other.

My dad made a good argument about this when I brought it up the other night. I'm with many of you that I dislike the image that Scion brings to mind for me, and I wish they would have kept the FT-86 as Toyota-branded.

But think about what the Toyota brand is here in the US. In actuality, it's a boring brand.. you have the Camry, Venza, Corolla (nothing special anymore), Solara, Avalon, Sienna, Matrix, and whatever else.

All the 'cool' and 'performance' cars are gone from their lineup. The Corolla is a joke now, no 2000GT, no Celica, no MR2, no Supra. While I don't consider the tC a performance car, it's about the best chance they have other than the top-tier V6 Camry. As much as I shake my head at the tC + TRD supercharger combo, they do have a Scion drifting team and the Scion brand is the 'hip' and 'cool' brand.

Looking at the demographic that most Toyotas here in the US appeal to vs the Scion brand, it was a no-brainer why the FR-S was put where it was. I know, I dislike it and WILL rebadge my FR-S as Toyota, but I do understand why they did it.

If you're after all the creature comforts and in the 30's range you may as well get a BMW 328i. RWD, small, more power, can get the M package and can get it for around 32k.

The auto headlights I miss having in my FR-S. Not that I need them to turn on automatically, but I'd like them to turn off when I lock the doors. I wonder if maybe there's a dealer programming option we don't know about? I have not finished reading the manual yet. Oh yes, not having steering wheel controls is a BIG minus for me too. If I can add the dual zone climate control for $1000 or less I'm going to do that. Sooner or later someone will make a kit I bet.

Rob

It's highly unlikely that this car costs thousands more to build than an Impreza. The companies are certainly making a profit on each sale.

I agree that both cars reek of cost cutting. Since there are not many inexpensive low-profile vehicles currently for sale, the cars are still at the top of my shopping list.

Not that I would ever buy a 328i, but truecar.com says 34,875 for a 4 door and $37,799 for a 2 dr, and that's without the m stickers. I'd like to see this 32k m sport 328i you speak of.

Derp, sorry 128i :x

It is also 450lbs heavier with only 30 more hp. MSRP is also $34,600 w/ the M package.

I'm sure the upcoming 1 series with the new 2.0T will be a hoot to drive, but god damn, it is ugly.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-cont...nt-626x382.jpg

I'll save my ~$9k and go with an FR-S.

Impreza is sold at a much higher volume in the US. They probably build as many Imprezas in 2 or 3 months as the yearly FR-S/BRZ production. I believe that the BRZ/FR-S are built on an Impreza line, right? In that case, the Impreza is likely subsidizing a lot of the assembly cost of the BRZ/FR-S by getting full utilization of the machinery.

I wouldn't call that cost cutting. It is just a way to reduce the impacts of inventory, lead time, and such to the overall costs of selling a vehicle. (Looking at it from a TPS perspective... you're more likely to match a customer to a car if their only choices are color and transmission, thus you need less inventory to satisfy that customer, less inventory = less cost.)

I thought the vehicle felt completely fine as far as build quality and materials for $25k considering all the nice mechanical bits you get. It isn't soft touch like the GTI, but RWD, 300lbs lighter, LSD, and that sexy shape go a long way to counteract the nicer interior materials.

Offering options will only make them more money and more customers. They can always offer a cheap base model but the options and higher trims are where the money is at.

As I mentioned before, I'm not interested in any other car. It's simply a matter of getting the stuff I want with this car for as cheaply as possible. The BRZ is the better deal but it doesn't meet my styling criteria and I don't prefer the suspension setup and it will be much harder to come by.

For the people who want to rip all that out in favor of a track model its more expensive :)