Lets talk home theater speakers
 

I'm just now getting into sound(quality over quantity), and need advise, thoughts, and general input.

BACK STORY:
My first year of college I picked up a used Logitch Z5500 off ebay. I think I paid $200 for the system that was only missing one of the factory speaker cables and a cover for one of the speakers. No big deal $20 worth of ebaying later, my used Z5500 was good as new.

Fast forward to about a year ago. DON'T LEAVE NEW(ish) PUPPY UNATTENDED. The little bugger chewed threw the power cable going to the Z's subwoofer. Of course it is not a cable that can simply be replaced. To add to situation, the subwoofer acted like the receiver for the system, all the speakers plugged into it, as well as the controller. Basically once the subwoofer was dead the only thing that was still usable were the speakers.

INVESTMENT TIME:
I needed a new sub and a new receiver, and I figured i'd just keep the satellites for a while since they still sound pretty good to my ears. I picked up an Onkyo TX-NR626 and a Polk PSW505. BAM!!! Good to go. Right!? Right!?!

As is the way with these things, the new onkyo can handle 7.2 and i've only got 5.1 hooked up.....for shame.

Hopped back on ebay and picked up a couple more of the speakers from the Z(just so they all looked the same). Going from 5.1->7.1 made a HUGE difference(maybe I just didn't pay that close attention before). Action scenes are way more enveloping. Being able to really tell when stuff is happening around you is blowing my mind.

So that brings me to the other day. If a little upgrade is good, more must be better right? I ordered a Polk TSX250C for a new center and have plans for a couple of floor speakers as well.


My question to all of you audiophiles, What are your recommendations for good quality, reasonably priced floor/surround speakers? What should I look out for?

Thanks guys.

http://www.truaudio.com

They make some pretty nice stuff for the money. We put a full set in my dad's house. It's pretty incredible. Pretty sure they are based out of Utah. But yeah, great quality, great speakers, price was solid too if I remember right.

Polk Audio and Klipsch make good, low priced speakers. If you look for refurbished units direct from the manufacturer you can get Polk's for nearly half off normal pricing. For my HT system I'm running Polk RTi series speakers powered by NAD Amps coming from an NAD receiver used as a processor/pre-amp. I don't think 7.x makes a HUGE difference from 5.x but there is a difference. Tron Legacy or Pacific Rim Blu-rays really are nice for showcasing 7.x soundtracks.

One thing that is really good to do is have multiple subwoofers...works much better than a single subwoofer. Always do 2+ subs when you can.... the more the better to smooth out bass and equalize its presence. I'd love to upgrade my subs from the Polks to F12 Rythmik Audio direct servo subs, but am fine with the Polks plus don't have the $$$ for the Rythmik's. Rythmik Audio direct servo subs are definitely bang for the buck for an audiophile grade sub though... if I ever upgrade it will be to the F12's...

One thing that has worked really great for me, and why I'm satisfied with my Polk PRO DSW 500 subs, is a special device known as the DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033. It allows placement of the subs into the corners for added output WITHOUT any muddled or boomy bass that would normally result. Works by sampling your room acoustics and correcting frequency ranges. For more information on it here's a link:

Anti-Mode 8033

Though it sounds much better in person (because iPod audio recording sucks, especially in the the low frequency range which is not represented well at all [and that's using an external microphone...] and the overall clarity is lacking along with too high a background/floor noise level), here's somewhat a representation of what my HT system is like (watch in HD and with the best quality headphones you have):

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adog2vo_85U&list=UUhGbQuR9-rdVDm4wdNTs_qA"]Epson HC-2 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6X0wh1Qs9k&list=UUhGbQuR9-rdVDm4wdNTs_qA"]Oppo BDP-93 Dual display output - YouTube[/ame]

+1 on Klipsch. Years ago I had some really nice Cerwin Vega stuff, (albeit a bit more quantity than quality probably), not sure if they're relevant anymore or even in business.

Go big or go home. Get on AVSforum and check out the DIY section. There is a lot of great information there.

Then go to DIY Sound Group and take a look at their fusion waveguide kits. The brains at AVSforum designed their own super-elliptical oblate spheroid waveguide that provides absolutely astonishing clarity and power. If you have a big room, do three Fusion 12's across the front and Fusion 8's everywhere else. Plus, when you build it yourself you can finish it however you want. And it's a fraction of what truly decent home audio speakers like B&W, Definitive, or Paradigm cost.

Now it's time for some boom. A PSW505 will do, as long as you don't mind subdued bass with no presence. If you're looking for extreme low frequency effect (being able to feel an explosion's shock wave in your chest) you need a lot of displacement. Big box sealed 18's, at least two in different areas of the room, are excellent at that. More subs = more authority. The only deviation from that is a sub that is designed to have no real excursion limits, like the RE Audio XXX. Look that bad boy up and tremble in fear. If you want raw power with unrivaled clarity, but aren't too concerned with 18 Hz and below, you need a horn. On the DIY section, look up the lilwrecker, microwrecker, gjallarhorn, or othorn. You'll find instructions, walkthroughs, build pictures, everything. According to www.data-bass.com, who provides impartial testing of a variety of systems, the gjallarhorn holds the outright decibel record from 16-23 Hz. The othorn picks up at 25 Hz and runs away, and a ported RE XXX reigns supreme below 16 Hz.

Now that you've got four 18" subwoofers that weigh more than your car, you need something to drive them. You're looking to shake dust from your house's foundation and have the neighbor's dog hide in the shower from the thunderstorm, so some piss-ant little plate amplifier mounted in the subwoofer box just won't do. Plus, those are often high passed at 20 Hz, which is bullshit. Anyways, home audio amplifiers are EXPENSIVE. And not excessively powerful, at that. Motherfucker, each one of your subs needs a thousand watts just to run properly, much less make some noise. Enter the world of pro audio. Pro audio amplifiers like Behringer, Crown, etc... make phenomenal power for not a lot of money. You want a 6000 watt amp with digital signal processing for $400? You're goddamned right you do. Parts Express has some to choose from; others are available elsewhere.

Now it's time to rein all this in and make sure it actually sounds good together. You need a DSP. MiniDSP provides incredible ability to tailor your system to sound the way you want it to sound in your room. Top end audio with crap balancing will sound like crap; while decent audio with exceptional processing will sound amazing. Throw some sound deadening on the walls to mute reflections and create refractions, all done DIY as well, and your theater will be the envy of everyone. Friends will stop by just to hear the THX intro noise on a movie.

You can build an astonishing home theater for a fraction of the price of a middle-grade store-bought system. All it takes is a little research, a little elbow grease, and a desire to do things better. Welcome to the hobby.

Best sound quality for the buck IMO is the Andrew Jones designed Pioneer line.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...kers/SP-PK52FS

Don't take my word for it. Google it. See how many audiophiles love the stuff.

I have already discovered polks ebay store, that's where I got the sub and center. I can't really justify spending more then $200 per channel at the moment, although I certainly will at some point. My plan is to slowly swap out the left over speakers from logitech, depending on whichever I feel is the weakest link.

I attached a sketch of my living room with speaker placement. As you can see the left and right surrounds need new home's at some point. The LS is okay, but I'd like to get it on a stand or something. The RS is kind of SOL at the moment as its sitting directly above the RF. I'm renting so I can't tear up the wood floors to run wire, and there isn't any room directly to the right. Anybody have a solution?

Polk Audio Direct on Ebay is the place to get them...:thumbsup:

Spend the most money on your mains (and get a full range one that can cleanly go from at least from 60hz to 20+kHz) - they are the most important speakers of a system (with the subwoofers being second most important), the center and surrounds are not as critical/important. Polk Audio Direct has the RTi-A5's for $250 each... You could match them with a CSi3 center channel ($160), FXiA4 Dipole/Bipole switchable surrounds ($285 for the pair) and RTi-A3 for rear ($285 pair) and have an excellent sounding system with plenty of volume.

You definitely need to get the surrounds in a proper location, they are not really adding much to the system where they are located right now. Acoustically it would be better to turn the system 90 degrees in relationship to the room, with the window area being the front...but practically there would be issues with that (display in the sunlight and light source behind the display mainly...). At the very least, if you could get the rear couch off the wall a few feet it would be very helpful and make the rears and mains more effective...put the dog crate behind the couch maybe.

gramicci101 has very good point about DIY for the subs... which is the route I would go with the Rythmik's (get their F12 driver/amp kit and build the cabinets). I much prefer quality and precision of sound over volume of sound though, if your system can do 100-110db you have more than enough "power"... focus on its precision and accuracy.

I'm more of a vintage guy.
http://www.hifiengine.com/images/mod...r700_front.jpg

I'm looking to get some Model 19's next.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...019/Altec7.jpg

And a nice tube amp. Maybe a used Mcintosh

I always aruge to go used when purchasing equipment. You get the best bang for your buck. Even some higher quality JBL's that would retail for 10's of thousands you can pick up for couple thousand.

A lot of modern stuff is great, but to this day...this is the best set up i've ever heard.
http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/a...anlage-vli.jpg

You can get kits to build line arrays from parts express. I want to make a unity horn or synergy horn.

I still have a pair of JBL L90s that need a rebuild kit.

For the OP: one thing to check - high end speaker systems use 8 Ohm impedance speakers while low end (walmart/target) use cheap 4 Ohm speakers.

Dont mix & match them or you can blow speakers/amps.

Ooo fancy. I have a friend who has the JBL L100's, they sound amazing. Also the most funky looking.

Also if you want to clean up your bass and give it a little extra smoothness/response try making risers for your subs to get them off the floor. And do you have a large rug or some other type of abatement to help some with room acoustics on a hard surface floor (ringing/slap/echo)? That will help improve clarity as well...

The FXiA4's are on my wishlist as are TSi400's. The RTi line seems a touch too expensive for comfort right now.

The only other practical way to re arrange the room would be to put the tv in the corner between the windows, but the wife and I don't really care for that as it puts too much glare on the TV, so for the moment we're SOL. The left surround could do well on a stand instead of the window, but the right surround doesn't really have a good place to go unless there is a magical way to make it wireless.

Anybody have any suggestions for stands?

You've committed the first sin in asking for advice on audio equipment.

No budget.

Without posting a budget everyone trying to help is just taking shots in the dark.

I'd highly recommend steering clear of 7-point-whatever systems. You're taking your money and dividing it up even further only to dump it in the weakest part of your system (surround speakers) that gain you only a slight edge in surround soundstage that realistically few formats are going to take advantage of. Plus if you're not able to properly setup the speakers (judging by your drawing this might be an issue) you're just shooting yourself in the foot anyway. A well setup 5.1 system with better speakers is going to turd on a poorly setup 7.1 with lower quality speakers.

Even then, question whether you really need surround. If you're heavy into action movies or videogames, maybe you need it. Maybe you don't. You're going to be able to afford much better sound sticking to a stereo setup, but that may not fit your needs. From the sound of things you love your surround though!

Also used equipment is your friend. Audiophiles generally take good care of their equipment, and you can get good deals. Sadly I'm not sure I can recommend Audiogon anymore. :( A few gems can be found on craigs sometimes.

One last thing to consider. Speakers are always the best place to invest your money, second comes amps (not receivers lawlz). I know a couple friends who gave me shit for how much I spent on my 2.1 system versus my fairly budget tv, saying I should have put more money in the TV and yadda yadda yadda. Thing is those nice speakers you invested in today are still going to be just as nice 20 years from now if you take care of them. Plus, unless there is some bizarre totally unexpected departure in the next 50 years from how speakers have worked since forever, they're virtually guaranteed to work with any system well into the foreseeable future. That tempting $1800 tv will be surpassed by a $700 one in less than 5, and totally obsolete in less than 10.

Stands would work to get the surrounds where you need, you could but the right surround off the side of the sofa, maybe use 1" diameter PVC piping to create a conduit for the wiring and place it against the front and side wall for the LH side and run straight down the RH side under the side couch with RH surround being on stand in the corner of the two sofas (with the rear sofa moved closer to the display and the dog crate behind it...)

Never say "audiophile" and "surround sound" together.

...because there's no such thing as multi-channel SACD's or reference quality audio tracks on Blu-ray's that are the equivalent of well mastered SACD's....

Trashed675, just an idea on room/equipment layout...have no idea of the scale and proportions of your room and furniture but here it is:

http://vracer111.smugmug.com/photos/.../i-hjSRwkX.png

The blue line is PVC used as conduit. Since MS paint is limited to 90 degree rotation the chair could be turned more like 45 degrees...

You need air space behind the main seating for proper acoustics (1/3 distance of room length would be near ideal)... also if you could hang some acoustically absorptive and diffusive material on the wall behind the listening area that will help as well. These can be DIY and look very nice at the same time... visual art while at the same time an acoustically functional device.


Acoustic absorptive designs:

http://acousticsfreq.com/blog/wp-con...r%20Panels.JPG

http://cdn.instructables.com/FBH/R97...WR6.MEDIUM.jpg


Acoustic diffusive designs:

http://olga66.files.wordpress.com/20...iffusers-3.jpg

http://www.auralex.com/sustain/Sustain_WavePrism.jpg

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...int-arqen1.jpg

I'll be sure to look into getting some acoustic art. I tried putting the dog crate in between the wall and the couch last night. 2 problems,
1) The speaker outlet connects from the TV wall to the opposite window wall(only 2 channel) right where the crate would be. He only just turned 1, so he still likes to scratch and chew, probably both the couch and the speaker wire sticking out of the wall.
2) The wife walked into the room, took one look at it and said no(with that voice that says there is NOT going to even be an argument). It does look out of place a quite funky.

The only real rearranging that would look okay is to swap the cat tower and the dog crate, and to swap the couch on the right with the chair on the left.

I attached a more detailed picture that should show an idea. In between the kitchen and the living room, there is a hallway closet. It is open on the top, i'm guessing to allow airflow or to put decorations. It would be an almost perfect spot for the far right speaker. The problem is getting the wire up there. Wood floors so i can't go under and i can't string it across the hallway/dining area.

I stumbled across powerline adapters the other day. Theoretically it uses the powerline to transmit(primarily) network, and other AV signals. If its just a pass through(i think it is), It SHOULD work, right?

Thoughts?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...=-1&isNodeId=1


KEY: lightning bolt = power outlet, *=audio outlet/inlet

Unfortunately your receiver doesn't have speaker pre-outs, you would have an option of going with wireless speakers for the surrounds if you had pre-outs...

http://www.aperionaudio.com/aperion-...eaker-system-1

Experiment time. I bought a d-link powerline kit(HERE) and heres my plan. We all know you can use cat 5 as speaker wire, so i'm going to put one of these on the wall outlet right behind my receiver and the other on top of the closet. I'll then cut a cat5 in half, saving the prong on each side to plug into the adapters, then the exposed wires of the cable will be used as the speaker wires. The speaker signal should pass through the adapter, into the powerline, to the other adapter and into the speakers....thats the plan anyways. If it doesn't work, I can always return it.