S2K to BRZ as daily driver, looking for advice from anyone that has made the switch
 

Hi All,

Looking at replacing my 2001 Honda S2000 with a '13 - '15 BRZ limited. In the north east it looks as though the used market is a decent savings.

I've looked up the common issue list however wanted to see if there was anything else I should be considering? I know i've seen bolster wear on a few FRS however not so much the BRZ. Also wanted to know if motor break in was a major concern with these cars?

Let me know what you think! :thanks:

@King Tut

Thanks @sklimo I'm more or less looking for others who have made the switch and or recommendations at buying new vs used.

He did. Had twin now has S2K

So he went in the opposite direction... I actually prefer the concept behind the lower center of gravity and improved aero of the BRZ over the S2K for a stock car to work up driving ability and confidence.

For daily driving it's a no brainer, the BRZ limited feels like a car I can drive daily where the S2K is all "Hey look at my pretty... Dash Board?"

@King Tut

Get yo ass in here

Trust me you will love the brz made the change from s2000 as it was far to harsh for a daily car. Things I really missed from the s2000 is the driving is fun in both but the s2000 was far more raw feeling while brz is a lot more calm til much higher speed. The f20c is something I really missed along with the roof down. But the brz is a lot more car than what the s2000 was. The both pure sports car but the can double as a "car" practicality, comfort etc and I have no regrets getting my brz

have you test drive the car yet? i think that will help you make up your mind!

Yea I've test driven the car but not at it's limits by any means. Overall it felt a bit lackluster but I can see past this due to the crap stock tires.

@manonastick That is what I'm thinking as well. The limited has the feature set to make me feel as though I'm driving a car and not sacrificing.

Ultimately the plan is to leave BRZ stock minus tires for as long as I can.

My short list

Pros:
- Inexpensive and low finance rate
- Great style
- RWD
- Great feature set
- Tune ability

Cons:
- Somewhat cheeky build quality for interior (felt a bit childish but not as bad as a STI)

It will do for a daily and lapper to get me into the project car when the driver's mod is there. Goal is after the BRZ is paid off convince the wife to let me get a K24 atom 3 :burnrubber:

Also is there a list i'm unable to find of things to look for if I do consider a used BRZ? I couldn't find one just a list of mindless problems like leaking tail lights and chirping, and dips in RPMs due to a ECU reflash

wat?

Neither of your mentions worked. I just happened to see this at the top.

dafuq?? I didn't mess it up either

Buy one under warranty, and then you don't have to worry about any of that stuff. If it has it, then take it to the dealer to fix it. That is the advantage of owning a 2013 over a 2001. The BRZ Limited definitely sounds like the way to go for you. I do miss the comfort access, bluetooth, and navigation that the S2000 doesn't have. I made the move because the S2000 has been around for quite a while now and the aftermarket has found solutions for all the issues and the cost of entry / cost of replacement should I wreck mine on track is lower.

I'd disagree with the cost aspect but I have a J's racing/ASM themed S2K project car right now. Also I'm glad someone else feels my pain of the s2k as an extremely boring daily driver with 0 luxuries. It's an amazing weekend warrior however lacks in the commuter car.

Overall you do not see any issues with snagging a 2013 over a new 2015/2014?

I've negotiated 25.6k on a new '14 BRZ limited however can get a '13 with <10k for 23K asking so I'll go ahead and assume <22K

Winter is coming after all ;)

i never owned an S2000 but I would advise you to not to buy the BRZ for it's "features". Navigation sucks, heated seats sucks, it`s loud, etc... If I`m honest, the S2000 is a better driving experience. If I were you, I would keep the S2000 to do your fun stuff with, and get an another nice comfy car. I can only afford one car that is kind of a middle ground of everything, but if I already had an S2000, it`s a no brainer for me.

Mokinbird, the problem is one S2K is built beyond my personal driving ability. As well the AP1 has 130k miles on it at this point and is reaching it's endings, anything I do replace the AP1 with will need to be a RWD sports car as well and I'd honestly prefer a new car. That leaves me with only a few options and all of the alternatives besides the BRZ are blagh.

Genesis feels sloppy in comparison
Mustang GT is all power no finesse
Miata is less power + better handling but I'd like to avoid another soft top. And this puts me in the same dilemma I'm in now

The navigation doesn't bother me 100% as much because I know with cars like this selling the navigation to FRS owners who didn't pick one up won't be all that bad (so I'd imagine).

I'm one of those twisted individuals that took a RWD sports car out in the middle of New Hampshire's worst snow storms... And loved it

forget what I said. you have two S2000s lol.

Yea one has reached the point of no return... Stuck with it now

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...045fb028229db6

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...bfc6acffedeb4b

what about the new wrx or an evo mr?

I HATE HATE HATE the wrx/sti platform... (I know I'm weird). Also I've driven a evo X and it simply has too much road presence to be considered a driver's car, albeit an unbelievable performer.

Don't sugar coat it, we're all adults here. We can handle it. Tell us how you really feel. :)

I have not driven the s2000, but if you're looking for an affordable RWD coupe the twins in my opinion are your best option. (perhaps the only option?)

Mustang GT with the 5.0 coyote are surprisingly affordable/miata/genesis r-spec but the more i research the twins the better they are the clear car to beat for <30K

Now I just have to find out if it's worth buying a NEW BRZ limited or just find a used one for a few grand less

My advice is to spend some time in the Issues subforum, read through some of the bigger threads and you'll get some background on the usual problems. Just remember to bring some grains of salt. Hyperbole is fairly common there (as it is for any car community).

Here's a quick list off the top of my head of the most common issues with this platform:

- Condensation in tail lights (Fairly common - heard rumors, these are no longer being replaced under warranty, after market fixes exist)

- Oil leak from cam plate on rear of engine on manual cars (not common - aftermarket fix, can be done in driveway)

- RPM drop and shudder (common prior to MY2014ish - fixed at dealer under TSB. Not to be confused with RPM drops at idle with AC on, this is a pretty common Subaru thing).

- Crickets from high pressure fuel pump (common to all model years - three versions of the HPFP exist, none fix the crickets for sure, does not effect driveability, can only be heard at idle).

- DI Seal failure (Possibly due to gaps left in transient fuel tables, not very common, occurs mostly in tracked or tuned cars. Apparently newer ECU revisions fix this issue. Has been quiet for a long time - since MY2013ish).

- Axle failures (all examples I read about were on significantly lowered cars, fixed with aftermarket axles.)

- Notchy transmissions / gear grinds (unclear how common it is, some people complain of notchy shifting or difficulty getting into 2nd when cold. Some transmissions have been replaced, sometimes fixed with better transmission fluid. Drive the car you intend to buy before you buy it, just to make sure things shift well. I think notchy transmissions are very common to budget sports cars).

- Usual pops and rattles in the interior - its a budget sports car, you get what you pay for.

- Issues connecting to Bluetooth (really hit or miss. I guess if you have a lot of contacts on your phone, it overwhelms the connection process and won't connect. Options exist to not transfer contacts and then issues are rare).

Regarding track use - the car can be driven straight onto the track if you don't intend to go 100% and are ready to replace fluids immediately afterward. Otherwise, the usual for just about any car is needed (e.g. brake pads, fluid, good oils, and tires). The exception is for those tracking regularly in hot climates - an oil cooler is considered pretty mandatory. Several options are routinely used (OEM sandwhich cooler under oil filter, Jackson Racing external cooler).

All in all, the BRZ/FRS is a great little sports car ripe for an owner who cars about the experience of driving and learning to drive better. The added bonus is decent fuel economy (6spd manual, I get about 30mpg on my commute and routinely over 30 on highway trips). The car is relatively comfortable for long trips or the commute, the speakers suck but can be tweaked to sound ok. Bluetooth means you don't even need to use the Nav (instructions from your phone read over speakers).

In the end, coming from an S2k, you'll likely be underwhelmed (maybe even frustrated) by the engine but the trade off is a car more usable every day that can still go to the track whenever you want. And remember, you can fit four wheels and a jack in the car with the rear seat down - very useful.

BTW, regarding new vs. used - depending on how you're buying, if you're financing and get a really low interest rate (< 2.00%) over 5 years, the savings of used over new approach negligible and you have the added benefit of being the only owner of the car.

My advice is to find a car you can REALLY test drive. You'll really know if you'll like it once you push it a bit.

If you can find a used one I say let someone else take the initial depreciation hit. I picked mine up with 2k miles, saved 5k and ended up with a practically new car with a full warranty. Win win.

@GotMunchies? This is pretty much exactly what I've been reading. Added was the years that these potential issues can be relevant to and that was honestly the major concern here. As for financing I'll be going through DCU for 1.2% financing and have aprox 15K to put down leaving me with a relatively small to non existent. I'll have to keep my eyes open for a color I like BRZ limited that is used or try to be lucky enough to get a '14 BRZ limited next month when the AP1 ships off to it's new home.

Overall probing the ft86 forum was enough to tell this is a good community to join on top of everything else ;)

Yeah, that's about right, pricewise. There's a 2013 CBS limited in Wakefield MA w/ 41K miles for $18.5K on craigslist. If you don't mind some mileage, there are some decent deals out there.

I'm shopping both the Ecoboost Mustang premium and BRZ limited. When the 2015's BRZ hit the lots late Sept or Oct, I'll see what pricing is and go from there. Leaning towards a new BRZ, maybe a used one. I like some of the new items on the 2015's (faux carbon dash instead of silver, new key fob, sharkfin antenna, nicer exhaust tips).

Manchester Subaru usually has some decent pricing, and a few forum member from MA have bought from up there.

Not much left down here for choice of colors on the 2014's unless you want silver or silver :)

I actually autocross with Gary from Manchester Subaru so he knows I am looking. Unfortunately I hate the silver :*( Looking at WRB > Dark Gray > White as far as options go. Ohh well we will see what comes. I was looking at a '14 5.0 mustang GT... right up until i researched the car some more

I had a 07 S2000 as my DD for 3 years and recently got into a 14 BRZ (WRB>SSM). The engine was definitely underwhelming, and I do still feel frustrated from time to time but the trade off is worth it for me. It is a lot more comfortable as a DD and although the consensus seems to be that the navigation and heated seats suck, it's still nice to have

I do have the chirping problem so I will have to take it in to the dealer but having warranty gives me peace of mind.

This is the smart way to buy a car. Period.

At least those amenities are THERE! LOL honestly I don't plan on the car being NA for the better course of a year so it's going to be a bit of a challenge with restraint on my part.

I've logged a good amount of miles in the S2000 and it's by far the more exciting car and superior in performance. But a twin definitely is the more versatile car in that it mixes in everyday practicality (sans rear seat comfort) and fun into one package. And thats something that it beats over the S2000. I love the S2000, I almost bought one but I could definitely not live with it as a daily. Its a superior car over the twin in performance and fun but when you can have fun and have the comfort that the twin offers it the way to go if thats what your looking for. If you have another car that can handle the everyday aspects and that you are satisfied with it i'd say don't trade the S2000.

do you buy new cars at MSRP? and do you trust someone else break in your car for you?

Every year has seen improvements (if only minor). All of the improved parts are bolt on to the old cars though. I haven't seen used BRZ's going for that cheap around here at all, the FRS is depreciating faster though.



Nav is nice to have so you don't drain your phone battery or if the screen is too bright, or you don't have a mount, etc. Heated seats I can't really comment on as I haven't had mine into the winter yet, but my gf did turn mine on to mess with me and it got very warm (I had to watch Top Gear with her...). I wouldn't call the car loud at all unless you're used to a new Camry or something as it's much quieter than a convertible...


Definitely don't agree on the Miata being the better handling car. Stock for stock the Miata rolls through corners and needs a ton of work to get to the level the twins are out of the box in handling and ride quality. Tires would be the only place the Miata might win stock for stock, but all bets are off once you put good tires on the twins (plus the ability to fit some serious rubber under these cars)


Even the new one? Heard a lot of good things, but ultimately chose the BRZ because of the superior gas mileage and it's much sexier looking. I wouldn't touch a Mitsu as their dealer network, parts, and service are terrible.


Not when it comes to performance cars, especially inexpensive ones. Could have been beat on by some kid since day one. Unless you're the original owner, you'll never know how the car was treated and maintained before you.



There's some good threads comparing the twins to the S2000. Namely this one: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18696


The aero on the BRZ is superior to the S2000, but the S2000 has the better engine (nothing a little boost won't fix)

@Poodles The miata is a different sort of creature. The S2K, twins, miata all have their expertise... From what I've seen of how the twins perform the BRZ would handle superior at high speeds however there really are not many cars that will outperform a miata in a tight tactical course. They simply chew me up every time I go to the local autocross... even swapped cars and I was doing better laps in the miata.

Either way, my '01 AP1 will be gone September 13th. Buyer sent deposit and all looks like that will go through and looking at the asking price from dealers in the area I will most likely be buying used for a few factors:
1. '14 left overs are slim picking and not available in the colors I want
2. '15s the dealer wants 1500 more than what I can get a '14 for and I'm not willing to spend the money
3. The '13s have depreciated more than I had expected (20-21k for low mileage ones)

This will free up some funds to finish the aero work on my other s2k and make me feel less guilty when I start modifying the BRZ

Sounds like you are joining the 86 club soon, so congrats. I think you are going the right way for a DD. But I am curious as to what you thought about the mustang, and what you uncovered that dissuaded you from it?

Why is it that late for the 2015's to arrive at MA? I saw a 2015 at a dealer last week here in PA.

The mustang was a bit of an odd ball. I was dead convinced I wanted the car from reading online however after talking to several driving instructors and test driving one I wasn't convinced.

It's a fast car and would probably make me happy as a daily driver but to get the real mustang that I want (track pack or boss) it was going to be over 30k and not in my actual budget for a new daily driver.

The car felt BIG and heavy. I like small streamline sports cars, the power was overwhelming and the gearbox wasn't refined like my s2000. Comparing the two I knew the mustang would probably run a faster laptime but it wasn't because of the driver it was because of the motor and that really isn't something I want in a car :/. Overall driving experience was a bit better than the genesis v6 r-spec.

Should be mentioned the only other mustang I've driven was a 03 Terminator making just over 700whp... So i may be a bit ignorant about the heritage or the car itself. Just wasn't for me