S2000 vs FR-S BRZ Review | Video Part 1
 

S2000 vs FRS (GT86 BRZ) Full Review | Part 1 of 2


After about 2 months of planning we bring what we hope is the best 86 vs. S2000 comparison on the internet to date. Part 1 covers the history of both cars and just how similar the goals were but just how differently they turned out.

Part 2 will be released in September covering the full performance aspects of the cars on track.

VIDEO

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwPW0iWYTNk"]S2000 vs FRS (GT86 BRZ) Full Review | Part 1 of 2 | S02E07 - YouTube[/ame]

Whether you like our style or not your feedback is greatly welcome on what you feel was left out.


S2000
0:00 - 0:52 Introduction Montage
0:52 - 2:32 The History and Chief Engineer Shigeru Uehara
2:32 - 6:07 Under the Skin with Turbowski
6:07 - 9:02 Getting Inside
9:02 - 11:22 Driving Impressions Analog vs Digital
11:23 - 11:43 Learning the Hard Way - RIP
11:45 - 12:17 S2000 Final Thoughts

GT86 - FR-S - BRZ and Supercharged FR-S
12:17 - 14:12 The 86 Platform History with Engineers Tada San
14:12 - 16:10 Interior Overview and Engineering
16:11 - 18:01 Driving the Stock BRZ, FR-S and GT86
18:01 - 19:57 Driving the Supercharged FR-S
20:00 - 20:45 Final Thoughts and Track Review Coming Soon
20:45 Outtakes


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I see by your aviator style sunglasses that you are now incorporating period costume into your video productions. Gives it that 90's vibe... nice touch.

I love the S2000 but when I see this: Used 2006 Honda S2000 $15,995

Mileage: 158,594

I want to vomit.

My underwear are also vintage worn for two weeks straight.

The prices online are so over inflated, half are listed just to falsely inflate values I am certain of it. When I was looking for the 2005, I called every single person with low miles and high price including email. None of them responded. Not just a few either like 20 or more of them.

Good vid

as much as i love my frs and that toyota created a new affordable FR coupe, i still think my previous ap2 is the best sports car ever (minus luxury brands)

Thanks for that review. I enjoyed watching it and learning about the history of the s2000 and how it was built with similar principles to the 86. Had a good laugh at some of your humour as well.

Love the bluntness and humour of your reviews. I also enjoyed the background and history on each car. It is hard to believe it has been so long since both the S2000 and NSX were originally developed. There needs to be more cars of similar spirit on the road. There are too many people nowadays that have no concept of driving enjoyment and only want an appliance that gets them from A to B.

Great video as always. Looking forward to the next one. The S2000 was definitely a great car for it's time.

Thanks, it's hard to these points across without rambling.
A lot of what was left out was, in fairness the days of the S2000 and NSX are gone. Affordable high strung NA cars are reserved for low production niche market models due to emissions and all the other modern changes.

Sure we have, Atoms, Lotus, Catherhams, Monos etc.
But try actually enjoying those cars on the road for more than a week at a time. We don't have many options for road cars with a harder edge.

I am not sure if there is a true cause is why we diverted to anti-driver cars. Cost? Practicality? Priorities?

Really enjoyed Part 1. I think you really captured the spirit of both projects/cars and highlighted what makes these cars special, and what the drawbacks are.

Loved the discussion around the throttle cable vs a computer controlling your throttle response. I am shopping for a third fun car right now (Miata/S2K) and this is something I have noticed when test driving these older cars. They just make you feel more connected to the car. I drove a 1995 Miata R two weeks ago that has manual steering and it was such a blast. My wife would hate it, and it is not something I would want to daily drive, but there is so much direct feedback...

Glad it worked.
It's pretty clear we are in an age where designers and engineers are obsessed with having ecu control over everything, windows, doors, switches etc.

Steer by wire and brake by wire are next. The older Miatas are definitely as most manual as you can get of any moder sporty car. Direct feeback is something missing now, and almost off when you feel it again. Miata Manual steering racks, no ABS even in the older ones makes from some very fun driving assuming you are not stuck in traffic with goats.

I'm not surprised at all. This one I posted I've actually seen in person. These people are nuts asking for that price for a car like that in Massachusetts! I'm pretty sure the FR-S is worth less than that asking price with 40,000miles

Great video as usual. I really enjoy watching them except how you constantly call the cars "piles". Sometimes I wonder if there is a car on the planet that you and Turbowski actually like. I am really looking forward to the track and performance section of the video.

I was happy to hear the new Alfa Romeo C4 has manual steering :) But agreed, I think we are in too much of a rush to make everything electric and computerized when it comes to true sports cars. As good as the electronic steering is in say an FR-S, I think it could have been better had they used hydraulic.

The Miata R model was as basic as you could get. Manual steering, no ABS/nannies, no stock AC unit, manual windows, etc. And with such a low powered engine it is hard to make too big a mistake and not be able to recover vs something like an S2K where, as you noted, you need to have your wits about you.

I think you are taking him too seriously :)

But that Chrysler Turbowski had in the shop is a beauty....

Nice video, thanks for taking the time to make it!

I've been considering getting rid of my FR-S to get an S2k for a while now.

Couple of questions:

1). You mentioned the power steering was night and day different. Does this mean the 86 provided more feedback? Any elaboration?

2). Does the addition of traction control and drive by wire add or detract significantly from the driving experience on the street? I was aiming for 07/08, but maybe I need to go older if it makes a large enough difference.

3). Did you goto Shigeru's house and interview him? Because that's awesome. (humor)

Thanks!

That makes me shudder. I think Infiniti just released a car with steer-by-wire (Q50 I believe) and it's predictably awful.

Solid video btw. You've got a knack for these, although a bit choppy in the transition to the supercharged FR-S.

A question...

Towards the end of the video, the reviewer says the ap2 S2000 is a "far superior" sportscar to a stock FR-S/BRZ.

But just a few minutes before that, he said if the modded FR-S with dampers, brakes, and forced induction was the "STI/TRD" car and it only had the same wheel hp as the Honda, it would be better than the S2000.

Aside from non performance stuff like cheap plastic switches, the only thing he really complained about the stock 86 car was the lack of power. He never said anything bad about the brakes or suspension or anything. In fact, he liked the BRZ power steering better and reiterated the lack of horsepower was holding back the chassis capabilities.

The S2000 has 240hp against only 200hp of the BRZ, and that makes the S2000 "far superior" ?

I'm trying to decide how much if his comments are hyperbole.

I ride sportbikes and after a test drive, I certainly didn't think the BRZ was fast. But I didn't find it that lacking either. 40hp doesn't sound like that much. I haven't driven an S2000 but I can't see that making a night and day difference. But apparently that alone is enough to make it a better sportscar than a FR-S/BRZ ?

I love your videoes.

It is more than just horsepower with forced induction. You are getting more torque and running a tune that results in much more linear power. It is no secret that the stock tune on the FR-S/BRZ is not ideal as there is a torque dip. IMHO, I think the stock car is lacking torque more than anything which can make the car feel like it is going slower than it actually is. Also keep in mind the weight of the car relative to that 40hp/40tq increase. On a 3300lbs car it won't feel as dramatic as it does on a 2800lbs car that has such a dialed in chasis.

I would also recommend you watch some of Dezoris others videos on his FR-S since he has really detailed everything he put into his modded car.

great review, despite your apparent love for the s2k you managed to come across without seeming overly biased,
coming from fwd vws (which still hold some place in my heart) i fell in love with the frs, and it really is the simplicity that i like about it; the lack of 100 different buttons to control the radio, nothing flashy about the interior, the cockpit feel where anything that matters is in arms reach right there in front of you, everything about it is just about driving and i couldnt ask for anything else, definitely couldve used more power from factory actually, but ill sort that out on my own lol

thats it right there lol, my previous car (2010 golf 2.5) had pretty much reached peak torque at 2500rpm and held it till around 5500, this car feels considerably slower due to its lack of torque, wheras that car i could put my foot into it and it would just go whenever i wanted it to,

Turbowski actually likes 911 GT3, 911, C6/C7, M3. But he works on crap so much nothing excites him. He'd rather drive and race than talk about them and work on them. He does actually like the S2000 and FRS just does not show it.

Haha all he did was send me pics of Chryslers today to guess which ones they were.

1.) The FRS steering rack feels almost like a manual rack compared the the S2000, very direct and you get a sense of weight from it and some feedback. S2000 is numb, almost same rack they used in the 2000 Honda Insight first generation unit, not very refined.

2. I hate the traction system on the FRS. It has 3 modes:
A. Prison Mode. B. County Jail Mode C. Probation Mode D. Off with ABS Oddities.

3. Shigeru is in mansion somewhere in space, I had to use stock footage.

Love this guy. He throws in an expletive every now and then and at just the right moment.. "there's no FUCKING around with camber kits.." :lol:

I have about 7 review videos on the FRS stock and with modification, so I did not go into great detail here, but certainly left a few things out of the 2nd video.

But to cut to the chase, the 86 really does have the better balanced chassis and Aero, and brakes don't overheat like the S2000 stock vs. stock. (with real pads) In so many ways the 86 is a better car.

But as in the video, Honda's engineer said it best and assuming you fit into an S2000, when you drive that car top down and you feel the harmony of the motor and trans and the twitchy nature of the car. As a driver it puts me into a satisfied state most cars can't. it's a visceral drivers car, it's only as good as the driver. The biggest complaint 14 years ago was the lack of power/TQ the S2000 made.

And its true it does not have a ton of power, but there is a sensation and rush to it much like a sports bike.

When you drive the cars back to back its very clear how underpowered and sedate the 86 motor is, even pumping induction noise into the cabin it just does not stir the senses as well. There is more to it of course but no point rambling.

Thanks, makes it more fun to make them when people actual enjoy them.

That's exactly how I feel. Most don't get power numbers are all relative to weight.

That's what makes the car great and why its the biggest new tuner car. Price is low enough to screw around with things. There is nothing out there quite like it and has huge potential as a platform.

I just continue to wish for that factory hi-performance trim with a warranty.

Bottomline: a stock s2000 is faster around a circuit than a gt86. It is not better, just faster due to the grunt advantage. Which is better is a subjective determination. I own and race both.

imho
The S2K once in vtec will pull and pull and pull all the way up to 140-150mph (quickly) and feel solidly planted while doing it. I don't feel my FR-S will pull nearly as hard and starts to feel floaty around 75-80mph.

I feel the S2K is a higher quality car and better sportscar, but I prefer my FR-S as a DD.

And let's not forget the price discrepancy. In 1999 the base MSRP on the S2000 was almost $10K more than the base MSRP on the FR-S nearly 12 years later.

I think the S2000 may not have cut as many corners as Toyota/Subaru in some areas, but you can't deny that the FR-S is a pretty great bargain at $25K or so.

i enjoyed the video. coming from an even older sports pile (1978 280Z with triple webers) directly into the BRZ, i can certainly relate to many of the comparisons made in the vid.

being a sportbike rider, i agree with @thill about the lack of torque being more of an issue with the BRZ than peak HP. my '97 GSXR750 had more HP than my ducati 996, but i find the 996 with its 'torque-ier' engine more enjoyable to ride in the canyons without having to keep the revs up high. just personal preference. if subaru had offered an STi version with factory turbo with 265 HP, i'd have paid the extra for it; no question.

Now that's dedication to your craft..:w00t:
ps..I wonder how many of us here have any idea how much work it is to do these videos...and do them well.

Yes.. indeed as a sportscar the S2000 is far superior to the BRZ. BRZ/FRS is much better daily driver. I own an almost stock 06 S2000 and a stock BRZ limited. Couple things that annoy me on my BRZ limited: crappy stock sound system and no alignment adjustment options from the factory except F+R toe, and the engine feels like a pile of crap.. however I still like the car alot and DD it since it's so much more comfortable than the s2000.

Why the S2000 is a "superior sportscar"
- indestructible engine that revs to 8k (F22C1) it's got forged internals and won't blow up like Subaru's do.
- best tranny gearshift feel ever
- proper double wishbone front and rear suspension with full alignment adjustment from the factory.
- the feeling of having the rear end wanting to step out at every corner makes me giggle like a school girl.

The funny thing is.. my s2000 is probably worth more than the BRZ if I were to sell both cars now.

My thoughts toward drive-by-wire...


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Were after effects added to the picture in the video? Some bright parts seemed way out of balance and saturation seemed distractingly high on some shots.

Cool content though. I enjoy the driving footage and history.

Someone told me if the work is good usually it will transparent and not distracting. If it sucks people will complain. But its a huge time sink for sure I attached my editing timeline, which shows all the individual clips and the specific adjustments for each clip. Excluding audio editing.

It's much easier to run a youtube channel where you put makeup on and use only a DSLR, no sound etc. Car crap is very challenging to do solo.

Thanks

Well the short answer is yes, unfortunately using 7 different cameras, many which produce very poor results in certain conditions required a lot of effects and adjustments to cover the fact it looked like crap. The results sometimes are very artificial. Also plenty scenes are run and gun with no help, so when I manually set my iris, namely in car it could be perfect then sun comes out and I glow white. I will make more of an effort to reduce this next video.

I have maxed out my current equipment and would very much like to upgrade to two new master cameras dedicated for these projects but the investment is not worth the return. So I try to focus on content and editing to hide some of the shit video footage.

Damn, I had almost erased the memory of what an actual throttle cable feels like and how much I dislike that minute, probably entirely psychological, bit of lag when I stab the peddle.

The way you complain about 'having to work the gearbox' makes you sound like you shoulda bought a Mustang and isn't exactly a huge point in the S2000's favor...

Nice snapshot of the cutting room floor, so to speak. My feedback was just some candid thoughts I had while viewing the video, not necessarily meant to come off as snide (in case you couldn't hear the tone in my voice through words :thumbdown:). Gotta make due with the equipment you have - lets you appreciate the nicer stuff if you ever do decide to upgrade.

I'm a big fan of your videos, they helped get me through the lengthy wait for our 86 to arrive. Keep up the good work and say 'hi' to Turboski!

you sir did an amazing job comparing the two cars and it's a very valuable since it comes from someone who actually owns both of these cars :thumbsup:.. the rumors and BS on internet makes me wanna puke at times ..you know like the comments start with "I know a guy who knows a guys who owns an S2K" :)

This is exactly what I am trying to say about our cars, without the FI they're so underpowered (well maybe not for a 17 yo)..

I never owned an S2K but I had a chance to drive my friends car back in days and I loved the involvement and the driver centric feeling of the car like you mentioned

all that said, I seriously considered getting an S2K but the lack of the backseats and inability to fit the extra set of wheels/tires for the track days were bummer :/ I might consider getting one in the future though..
thanks again for all the effort for making this video

Another nicely done video. I appreciate all that you have documented with your car, it was a big help when I was considering getting my car.

Keep up the good work please!