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TopSpeed.com - Scion FRS race car build
TopSpeed.com is sponsoring my Scion FR-S track car build.
Other builds I am following:
DIY The car below is a fully build FRS by TR3 Performance ... check the next post to see where we are starting from ;S |
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Reserved for "Back on the Road"
CRASHED DONOR The donor is a 2013 Scion FRS with 12k miles and a mild front crash. It is a gamble but the purchase price is worth the risk. The ideal candidate would have been a theft recovery car with gutted interior but we could not find any of these. Our FRS safety systems seem to have done their job at dissipating the front end forces into the bumper crash bar and hood. All chassis mounting points seem intact. young and optimistic drivers make these cars very easy to find on auction websites like Copart. The cars are not badly hurt but they get totaled as the labor and part cost skyrocket very quickly especially if you use the parts MSRP and dealer hourly rates. Frontal crash seems more messy but they are actually easier to fix as there are many small parts in the front that absorb shocks and they are all easy bolt on. Because this will be a race car, the radiator and AC parts would have been replaced anyways. PARTS COST: Make sure you shop online for the best rates, as small parts, even cheap, add up quickly. We found the best price online for factory toyota/scion part at Bochtoyota. They are so cheap, my local dealer would not match their prices which seems like 10% above wholesale. We still bought the larger parts locally considering shipping would have killed the savings anyways. BACK ON THE ROAD: finger's crossed We immediately put the car on an alignment bench to see if it was remotely straight and it was all good. Next step we replaced the bumper crash bar and luckily it did bold right in without effort. The fenders align nicely with the doors as well, so hopefully the car is still straight. PATIENCE BEFORE ADDING $ The idea is to rebuild the car and drive it on the track in its basic configuration before we poor more money into it. It will cost a little extra to do some jobs twice, but buying crashed car is a risky business that should not be under estimated. We'll see if we did the right thing or shot ourselves in the foot. Pray for us ! |
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Reserved for basic track improvements:
First track day mods - the essentials First I added the essential track mods: - Rims XXR 527 - 17x9 ($500) - Tires BFR R1 tires ($1100) - Brake pads Carbotech XP12 ($400) - Momo Daytona seat with brackets and slider ($900) - Harness Scotch Endure ($600) With the completely stock engine, all these mods matched perfectly, the brakes did hols perfectly and I could not ask for more. Water temps stayed dead center all day, with outside temperature in the mid 80's. Second track day mods - reliability - Oil cooler Mishimoto kit with bracket and fittings (don't buy - fitting are not worth the $) - Radiator Mishimoto, probably overkill, especially when AC condenser is removed and allowing more air to the PEM radiator but it is cheap insurance for hot climate like south florida. |
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Reserved for advanced track improvements:
Cage fabrication headaches. The car is just back from the roll cage fabrication and before painting, here are a couple of pictures. I am not a roll cage professional so I welcome any comment on the cage design. Only thing I see out of the ordinary is that the daytona door bars are not sticking out as much as some other cars, good or bad I don't really know. Anyways for my club racing I think I am already much safer than stock that's for sure ;) After some investigation, it seems the roll cage main hoop diagonal is not NASA or SCCA legal, because there is a bend in the diagonal and also the diagonal is not in the same pan as the main hoop. The car is going back to the cage builder for some adjustments and hopefully back NASA legal. The last photo shows you the diagonal bent and not in the same plan as the main hoop. Also after trying to install my seat we realized the cage did not allow the seat side head restrain to fit, so next time you build a cage, send you seat and fitting to the cage builder as well to make sure it fits, also the harness bar should be placed according to your seat. Even though some parts can be added later to adjust the angle of the harness, better do it right the first time. Never assume your builder know the local club rules, make sure you print out all your requirements in terms of design, tube size for the chassis class/weight...etc etc.. New cage design. So far my favorite roll cage design is coming out of Precision Chassis works in Nevada, I regrouped some of their design here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lkn91zd4o...TBs6DIhca?dl=0 Toyota has also make their own cage design for the GT86 platform. You can see it in their cup car and rally car, but the main hoops consists of an X shape and not a single bar as per NASA rules, the design is also a lot more complex. still I wish toyota would publish specifications on a roll cage design that is optimized for the t86 chassis. |
Reserved for Track Tuning:
With the car fully build, we will focus on engine and suspensions tuning as well as endurance reliability. |
Reserved for Track Techs gizmos:
Along wight he build we will be trying some tech gadgets: on board camera, data logging (traqmate, race keeper, harrys lap timer, obdII reader...). Dashcommand Discussion about ft86 oil temp pid Dashboard for Gt86 |
Looking forward to seeing how it goes. I'm in Fernandina Beach, FL. Maybe when you're done, we can race against each other.
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TR3 performance....they don't exactly have the best reputation around here. Do you know a lot about them and their buddy Toni from FA20 club?
:popcorn: All I can say is...proceed with extreme caution |
Never heard of FARA, but I would love to see this car in Continental or Pirelli World Challenge races. What is your background in racing?
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@KingTut, it is very presumptuous of me to think about pirelli or continental challenge as I have not participated in any racing series yet. I have done many open track days and I want to get into racing. So FARA seems like a good fit for a newbie like me ;)
There are 7 FRS track car here in the Miami area so I hope we can even create a special class for them at FARA and may be more. |
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All the TR3 cars are boosted. Got any details about the other cars?
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As far as I know the other TR3 race FRS are not boosted.
TR3 has done many forced induction cars for road customers, but I believe their race cars only have cooling and shocks modification, aside of the gutting and interior safety. I have not seen them all so I'll report back once I know more about the whole thing ;) I got a good opportunity buying my wrecked FRS locally so I decided to jump in. But I have not done that much research, I'll see how it plays out. |
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Isn't TR3 the shop that keeps blowing up peoples' cars by using Toni?
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Tomorrow sept 6th, I'll be at Homestead for my first tryout, mt car will be the only FRS with all black mat front clip (unpainted), stop by to say hello if you are around.
I'll report right after about how the car felt on the track for the first time. Right now only mods are: brake pads, bfg R1 tires, 6 point harness and momo daytona xl seat. Let's hope that oil temperature stay under control. |
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But the owners' personal FRS track car are all normally aspirated..hint hint ;) |
All the best out there. Take it easy and slowly build up speed as you go. You'll love this car
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Thread started 10 August 2014. Reserving this post for first page honors.
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Rebuild is done
The car was rebuild without any trouble, only one part, some coolant cast pipe, was unexpectedly cracked. Everything else bolted on as expected. There was more small parts missing than I thought. If you do buy a crash cars, make sure you keep every single bit you can because small $5 plastic part add up quickly. The rebuild cost was 90% parts as the car is pretty simple to put together and plenty of space to work with. The biggest costs of the rebuild were: hood, fender, bumper, windshield and radiator fan shroud. I could have gone aftermarket while at it, but considering the stock part are cheaper and I did not know if the car would even drive properly I did not want to spend money on carbon fiber parts and make things more complicated than they need to. To save cost I skipped a couple of items: ac radiator (ac compressor removed), windshield washer tank, fender side emblems, fender side lights, 2x airbags (dashboard is open on passenger side), 2x seatbelts (note the seatbelts are dead once airbag goes off), no paint job (I plan a wrap later). My only concern is that we were not able to align the fender and bumper perfectly. As you know the bumper supports/fitting around the headlight are not ideal, and in my case the gaps are less than stellar. I think the problem may be with the fender support on the chassis, by the a pillars . I bet these are misaligned after the crash, and it will be near impossible to bring these back to factory specs. For a track car, no worry, but I was hoping to bring the tolerance back to stock to stay away from the 'lemon racer' look :S Track bits $$ For the track I added the following parts(approximate values): - $500 - 17x9" rims - $100 - 245 BFG R1 tire - $400 - carbotech xp12 pads front and back - $100 - motul rbf fluid - $700 - momo daytona xl seat - $100 - momo seat side brackets - $100 - recaro seat slider - $160 - floor mounting bracket (planted) - $200 - harness bar - $400 - 6 point harness scrotch enduro First day at the track I was quite worried when I got to the track, so much so that I came with my previous track car, just in case the FRS would fail after the first lap. So much can go wrong because of a small $2 part, I was bracing myself for the worst. The first lap was under rainy condition with new tires and pads, so I was taking it very easy. To my surprise, the car was running smooth and straight. After a couple of laps, tires and pads were ready and I started pushing it pretty hard. I did not manage to get the oil temp on my damned iphone but water temp stayed stable and the car was driving straight as an arrow. I could not believe it but the bet paid off! After looking back, I think I would have been better buying an auction car with high mileage in the $14k wholesale. Less headache and cleaner car and less risks. But I did save a good $5 to $8k going the copart route, that should allow a good bit of performance parts ;) At the track all parts performed beautifully, the carbotech XP12 brake pads are fantastic, no fade and tons of bite. I'll wait to see how long they last, but a great purchase for sure. I am not the best driver and brakes take a lot of heat with me so you can buy these without hesitation! I don't even think I'll need brake ducts for a while. remember that I am in miami and ambiant temperature were above 80F. Tires were a lot more predicatable than I thought. I'd say the BFG R1 are more of a slick R compound than a race slick like hoosier. It was my first time on slicks and I was able to feel the car slide and get some minor drift under control. I was not pushing it in the high speed sweeper as they are still more brutal to save than my previous yokohama adv08 though. I should have skipped the recaro slider as it increases the seat height. To fit I had to remove the seat bottom cushion, which in turn resulted in butt sliding because of the lack of cushion grip. I wanted adjustability for the begining, but it was not needed as I fit really well in the car. BTW, I did not have any problem with ABS or other nannies. At first I did not press the traction control (TC) long enough so TC kept interfering especially under wet pavement. I maintained the button pressed to fully disable the traction control and I did not feel TC interfering anymore. My mechanic told me that the ABS got out of whack in one of their car because they had removed the steering sensor as they changed steering wheel, and that once you put it back, you have to reprogram the ECU or wrong data with steering alignment cause the ABS to act up. You apparently need the toyota tech computer to reset it, a pain in the ass. So they were carefull while removing my airbag to keep the sensor on the wheel. Comparaison with previous ride Now for some comparaison with my previous ride. My fastest time with my 2003 porsche 911 stock except ad08 + pfc08, was 1:46. My fastest time of the day with the FRS stock except bfg r1 + xp12, was 1:50. Needless to say I was going round corner faster and braking later, mind you the tires are not in the same league. With the Porsche, I was always worried about something, oil pressure, gear box, paint job. That's the main reason why I never switch to slick before as many reported the additional grip could cause oil starvation and engine failure...you get the idea. Advantage Scion FRS! The Scion inspired so much confidence that I was able to brake in the 100 feet zone in my second session and ... do my first off track grass mowing session in my 3rd session. Too much confidence there :) Conclusion Overall, I am super happy with the car and my decision to retire the Porsche from track duty. The scion will cause me less grief if I bang/crash it and it goes around corner fantastically. I have to say that I will miss the grunt of the porsche and the rear engine bias which is so much fun to try keeping under control. I love both cars but for a track duty, The FRS is a superior car for me. I can't wait to add some good syspensions on it ! Video: unfortunately I got very spotty connection with my bluetooth GoPoint BT1 so Harrys Lap Timer (HLT) is not showing much data and GPS reception was also very poor. Strange as I never had problem with my previous ride. Anyways HLT was never able to read the oil temperature as toyota use an usual PID for it and this can't be configured with HLT :( I hope they come with a fix on that as I love this app. High quality videos made simple. I recently purchased a Vbox sport that I'll try next time. [ame]http://youtu.be/dHgGYtsyp60[/ame] |
that last picture makes it seem like you can't close the door with the window rolled up
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yes I saw that, the optical effect is weird. You can actually close the door and have the window up but it is very close.
If you look close you will see the window goes on top of the rubber joint and not inside of it so there is some added clearance. I wonder if it would be water tight under heavy rain but considering the car is not titled that will not be a problem ;) |
I am loving this 100% so please don't take this as banter or flame fanning, but please be aware of who you are in bed with. This is TR3 who also happens to be affiliated with FA20Club... the company known to have destroyed countless motors with insanely terrible tuning. You might want to consider finding a highly respected tuner in your area for the tune.
Beyond that, best of luck with the car. I hope to watch this progress and tear up some asphalt! This looks like it should make for a great track car. |
Thanks for the words of warning. It is always nice to know before hands ;)
I did talk to the shop owner about it and overall the problem seems to be with the turbo tuned cars, and tony is indeed in charge of that. Tony actually work out of TR3 but he is not part of the staff. My car will not receive any engine modification at all. So Tony will not be wrenching on my car. I don't feel I need any additional power at the track. Straight line power doesn't appeal to me ... at least if it comes with the headaches of turbo. TR3 shop owners, 3 brothers, are working hard to please the customer. So far I have been very happy with TR3 services. They are easy to talk to and they listen what the customer has to say. The shop is relatively new and they are still working on putting together a steady tech team. What's for sure if that TR3 track support is top notch and they really make you feel at home. I'll keep you posted further once I start building the car further. Right now we are still making sure everything works as it's supposed to. I think I'll do an additional track day in this configuration then the mod will begin. Hopefully racing at the end of the year, but for sure in 2015. |
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Second track day
After a successful first day I decided to move forward, gut the car and transform it into a full race car. I added some new mods to address potential cooling issue, even though my track day was actually happening at night, so I did not really test much of the cooling. The shop added Mishimoto oil cooler and radiator. The oil cooler sandwich plate was leaking after our first session. Quite deceiving for a Mishimoto kit. We had to clean the fitting and add some nylon tape, like in your good old bathroom :(. The fitting should be of better quality at that price point, but at least it stopped leaking. During the first lap of the first session one my passenger fender plastic liner flew of... certainly some defective plastic rivets. Also the newly installed APR carbon fiber brake ducts where not ducted yet, so all the air was pushing the fender liners, that could also explain it, even though the driver side held fine all day. Aside of these two small incident, the second day at the track was a blast. The car ran all 5 sessions without problems. I spent a couple of time fighting some other FRS in stock form, and my car was just as fast in the straight lines so I assume my engine is running the way it should. Car drive straight as an arrow. Oh yes one little thing was not working... the ABS :S Since the removal of the steering wheel and a couple other devices during the gutting, the ABS and traction control are missed in action. Traction control is not very useful at the track and I always disabled it, but the ABS, was a tremendous help. During my first track day I was able to punch the brake really hard and get a fantastic stopping power with no wheel lock and not even ABS pulse. This time around, I can tell you that the ABS was really doing its job because I had a couple of wheel lock at high speed and with the slick tires, there is no feedback whatsoever when you lock the wheels... aside of the lack of braking. During my first lock I thought I ran out of brakes, and the grass was getting closer than I'd like it to be, luckily I was not driving 10/10 and i had plenty of margin to release the pedal and re-apply the brakes. But it took me a whole second to remember that the ABS was disabled, there was no tire squeezing, no smoke, no weird behavior, nope, just driving straight...on ice :) I was luckily to not flat spot the tires ! After that I tried to take it easy but still I did 2 or 3 more small wheel locks at braking level that to me felt inferior to what I was doing when the ABS was active, not activated, but with the computer helping me out :). I really hope we can fix that problem asap, it is just not something adding value to the driving experience. |
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Third track Day:
Homestead, without ABS and traction control was not fun, plenty of tire locking. I tried to drive without the vacuum pump on the brake booster, which gives a lot more control over the brake, but the pedal is just too hard. My foot started hurting after my second session. |
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Fourth and Fifth Track day: Sebring.
Before the weekend: - The clock spring was replaced with a new unit, and using the tech stream software, the steering angle was recalibrate. ABS light is gone and the traction control are working again. - The engine developed the infamous cricket noise at idle. I need to see if using better gas solve the annoyance. On the track the ABS and traction control are fully operative and that is awesome! After a few laps my brake pads were running low and I destroyed my stock rotors, luckily I was able to find some 2 piece floating DBA 5000 series T3. After putting the new pads and the new rotors, the weekend ended up nicely with a trouble free experience. The cricket noise did not seem to affect performance and the noise is stable even after 2 full track days. https://youtu.be/JwZk64E97Ko |
Any laptimes? Did you hang out with Emmanuel and Raul?
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Our Saturday hangout plans didn't happen since we had to tow a car home. But it was awesome meeting Barbara and hanging out for a while. Hopefully, you come out to June with whatever car you have then.
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Nice looking car, have fun with it.
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I see potential here
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after deciding to keep the car for a little longer.
I decided to upgrade a few things - apex spring kit : caliper and disks with CL6E pads - spiegel braided lines front and back - whittling bushing: rear frame and differential - under body JDM aero plates, mostly for protection of the under carriage against debris at the track. - RaceComp Engineering Tarmac 2 (KW V3CS) with 500 lbs springs - Raceseng back plates with 2" drop - Ground control front camber plate with truss brace. - Apex Alignment to make sure everything play nice. - Cusco gas pedal for easier heel and toe. - oil pressure gauge for peace of mind. - removed the air box resonator, for cleaner engine bay. - installed perrin throttle body duct (may cost me point in my class, so I may put the poem tube back on). - installed fire extinguisher mount on the roll cage. - installed go pro mount on the roll cage - installed ram mount for mobile phone in the double din area (iphone or OFT) - bought open flash tablet and added the latest 93 octane flash, mainly to benefit from the latest firmware. The Raceseng 2" drop plate helped keeping camber to +-3, even with a massive lowering of the car, so I did not need any lower control arm, which would cost me additional point in my potential running class NASA PTD. The car weight 2540 lbs as of today, without driver and with only one seat. I did not corner balance the car yet, I'll wait a few track days to have everything settle before. I did all the work myself after TR3 became unresponsive on me. I have to say that after working on the car myself I realized a lot of little things did not receive the love they should have. So I took my time and put all the wiring away nicely, zip tie things neatly, add all rivets missing and that sort of things that a shop will not do for you... I assume. Anyways, i am anxious to get back on track and see how the car behave with the new setup. TO DO : - oil change motul 300v 0W20 or thicker / DONE - magnetic oil plug / DONE - transmission oil change - liquid coolant change. - Kill switch wiring. - JDL ULE header with power coating (bought with recent group buy on the forum) - E85 kit, either open flash tablet, but most likely moto-east system for peace of mind and be able to see the actual octane levels. - super pro full bushing kit, including all control arms bushing, front and back, pricey but one of the few no point upgrade in NASA PTD class. |
Man I wish I had a shop like Apex Alignment in my area to get a good alignment. Looking forward to seeing this car this year.
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track day 6 at homestead
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Back on the track after new suspension install and fresh alignment.
Everything went very smoothly. It was a very hot day, but oil (motul 300v 0W20 and HKS filter) stayed in check always under 255F even under the most intense driving, oil Pressure stable at +-50.See my post in this thread about oil My aluminum floor is so much better than the raw chassis, and my NACA duct provided me with much needed air flow under that hot day at the track. The tarmac2 suspensions were very comfy, even with the 500lbs springs. I left them alone on default setting recommended by RCA: 9 from full stiff on rebound and compression. I 'll play with adjustment once I get everything sorted out but even as is, they did a great job. My biggest problem was the new brake pads not wearing the rotor evenly. They are CL RC6E and I may have to change them for something more forgiving in term of bedding, even thought I was doing the pedal dance each time. See my post in this thread. Overall the car is still a joy to drive so I will definitely be keeping it a bit longer. FYI: TR3 Motorsports disappeared on me, they don't return my email or messages, very deceiving after all the time spent over there. I am sorry to report that I can no longer recommend that shop. They still have parts I am trying to get back.. we'll see how this ends up. |
Glad to see you're enjoying the car...remember when I warned you about TR3 Motorsports way, way back...what douches
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Subscribed!
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quick update,
CAGE FIX I fixed my cage to be able to run with NASA. TR3 Motorsports who initially built my roll cage, did not do a good job building the cage. The main hoop diagonal had a bent, so I had to remove the diagonal and the horizontal bars where the harness tie to. Also a bunch of weld were not full 360 degree. The welder did not think about the accessibility of some weld and simply didn't bother welding the hard to reach areas. A shame considering I had spent good money painting the whole car interior. But that's what happen when you don't do your own research and you deal with unscrupulous providers in south florida. Thankfully, John at WOT-TECH in fort lauderdale, took the challenge and work his ass off to reach some pretty tough weld location. They are not pretty but they are now fully 360 degree weld and will pass NASA standards. He also installed a new diagonal bar, straight this time. He also added the necessary piece to add a window net with the quick release front. Now time to paint the thing...again.. DOORS / WINDOWS Ok so when TR3 Motorsport build the car they gutted my doors fully, because they said the roll cage would not allow for the window to remain in place. I had asked them to do their best to keep the windows but I just had no time to overlook the project well enough... Anyways I decided that I wanted the windows back and I happen to find a set of doors for sale at a local wrecker, so I went for it. It took quite some work and trial, but after a few hours, make small cuts here and there, I was able to get the driver door fit the daytona bars. As you can see my bars are not protruding too far outside the car, that is why it was possible. On the passenger side, I only had to trim the door plastic trim, as the daytona bars are not protruding at all. Shame on TR3 for gutting my door in the first place... For the window switches, I simply zip tied them to the door reinforcement bar, and they are accessible through the speaker opening. not as good as stock but perfectly fine for my use. I am pretty happy to get the windows back. I have an open trailer and I was not a fan of the lexan windows in terms of security and also water intrusion. |
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