Subaru & Toyota - Who engineered what?
 

I'm sure this been discussed before, but a search came up dry. :bonk:

I'm curious for more details as to what specific components and systems were engineered by Toyota and what was done by Subaru.

My general understanding is that Subaru builds the twins and engineered most of the mechanical systems and chassis, while Toyota covered the styling, interior, and electronics. So is fair to say that the car is mostly a Subaru product?

Now that the cars are designed and in production is there any more joint engineering going on? Or will both companies develop further innovations to the line independently?

there are literally hundreds of posts on multiple threads about this. Can we delete this thread?

Toyota paid for it. Subaru designed it and builds it.

Now please put your club away and leave the poor dead horse alone.

Linky?

Search bar in top right. It's over two years since the twins were made... Do you think you're the first person with this question?

Wow, TLDR I guess.

Zilvia is back!

It really is a mix. There are many parts that are only typical for Toyota in this car and also many parts that are only typical for Subaru. It truly is a hybrid joint effort. People like to claim it's just a Subaru that Toyota paid for and directed to be built but that simply isn't true.

People need to calm down, the guy just had a simple question. Would it have killed you to type up: Toyota Did:, Subaru Did: ..Sometimes i'll search up stuff and it will come up dry as well. This is the bs that drove me off the nasioc forum, douchebags everywhere

It's not about being a douchebag, it's about having the common sense to search things up before asking people.
Have a little autonomy; it is the internet, after all.

Realizing you are new here sure I'll repost some stuff that's been well covered...


Tetsuya Tada (Tada San) from Toyota designed it actually and its well documented. The looks alone do not scream Subaru in any way at all... "2 minute mark and on in first video below)

In end the twins are a hodge podge, Subaru almost was not involved and at last minute committed to their involvement with the motor etc. Esthetically all you see exterior and interior was all designed by Toyota, made at Subarus factory as it had room to do it and Toyota owns a % of Subaru as well, If Toyota engineer had not had the vision this car would not exist. I love both the FRS/BRZ btw...(3 minutes and on in first video below)

Here is an old video but you can see the background on the design the idea and what cars it was based on in Toyotas design.

Interview: ( watch all way through for full entertaining story)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHVhaTNRk8E"]2013 Scion FR-S/Toyota 86 Chief Engineer Tetsuya Tada Interview - YouTube[/ame]


Another Short:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHu4Cl3kH3o"]Toyota GT 86 Chief Engineer interview - Tada-San.mp4 - YouTube[/ame]

I want to know where the shortened rwd legacy they started with is.

Some more info from @Moto-P regarding development. Probably not what your looking for though.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6919

This is how I understood it. Always annoyed me when people say it's a Subaru. It's a Toyota with a Subaru drive train built by Fuji Heavy Industries.

As I understand it anyway.

That part at the end is so cool where he says he hopes everyone builds their own FRS and customizes it to enjoy for many years.

That is why I bought this freakin car. Awesome.

Every time I get into my car I realize how much time went into perfecting it. Everything is always in harmony when I drive it.

We spend too much time on the things we wish we had, instead of focusing on the great thing we have. We have a light, nimble 200hp car that will hold a weeks worth of groceries or a road trip in the trunk, will squeak out 0-60 in a touch over 6 seconds, gets 40IMPG on the highway while having the desire to go around every turn we want it to sideways while liquifying a set of tires, sitting in our driveway for a price we can afford. Who really cares that that trim piece is Subaru instead of Toyota or vice-versa.

Pretty sure this has been said before. Can we delete your post?

Common sense is great and all, if you're using the exact terminology everyone else thinks you should be using. We've all tried searching for things within the forum and come up empty handed, and many of us are decades-old forum veterans that know all the etiquette through and through. Getting to know the individual forum and other various search tricks takes some time.

Anyways, there's also this, posted as a Sticky in the GT86 general forum:
The FRS Development Story

Thank you for reposting those! Makes me realize again why I bought this car. The fact that they developed this car not relying on sports tires was a big selling point to me. Because everybody is naturally going to slap a stickier set of tires on this car...

It's human nature to take what we have for granted and to want things we cannot have. There'll always be someone with more money, bigger house, faster car, etc. However, we will never find happiness until we learn to appreciate the thing we have. Here we have a car that is built from the ground up as a sports car and we can buy it without breaking the bank. I feel privileged to have one in my garage.

Thanks for the reposting of those videos. It was worth watching and who cares if there is another thread, forums are where people can ask questions and have them answered. If you don't like questions coming back up, why be on a forum? People are irritated by stupid things too easily nowadays.

And Subaru suspension, nuts, bolts, screws...damn near every single piece of this car came out of a Subaru parts bin. I'm not sure why those facts would annoy anyone.

Unless I have forgotten something I believe here are about 5 parts on this car NOT from Subaru. Hell, even the Scion badges on the front and back say Subaru on them(the side you don't see).

Toyota parts:

key
annoying high pressure fuel pump
direct injection system
(forgot the other tiny parts)

If you got the dual HVAC, that whole piece is a Denso unit which I don't ever recall seeing Denso components on my previous Impreza(this might've changed). The non dual HVAC knobs are found on cheap Toyotas rather than any Subarus so that also is almost certainly a Toyota supplied part. IIRC the airbags in these cars are also supplied by Toyota. Transmissions are also Toyota supplied as they're both Aisin units. These are the only other obvious ones I know of.

The question was essentially: is the car more Toyota or Subaru?

Denso and Aisin are neither Toyota or Subaru as those parts can and are found in any make of vehicle. Using only Toy or Sub as the options, clearly one has significantly more content than the other, in this case it's Subaru with a huge huge huge majority of the parts. The entire engine minus those 2 pieces(and obviously the little electronic shit on the engine that numerous other companies mass produce for everyone).

The car is more Subaru than anything else and therefore I expect Subaru(NOT Toyota) reliability from it. The tranny will be as good as any identical Aisin regardless of make/model of vehicle.

If Toyota simply purchased the complete engine from Subaru and did everything else themselves, the car would not be identical to what we bought. Obviously it would be the same on the outside since Toyota did design it, but the engineering wouldn't be identical.

If Toyotas hand in the engineering phase were so great and influential, then there wouldn't have been a need for Subaru engineers, why double the paychecks? Subaru would still be the provider of the engine, suspension, etc., and the people who assembled everything in that scenario. Subaru was hired to engineer it so that Toyota didn't have to have a full team of engineer employed, or again, they'd have done everything themselves minus the assembly.

So as far as Toy vs Sub:

Toyota:
designed shape of car(awesome)
paid for project(thanks sugar pop)
provided handful important parts(HPFP, DI)
watched/advised during the engineering phase

Subaru:
performed the entire engineering phase(with handful of Toyota guys looking over shoulder)
performed the entire construction phase down to the last nut/bolt
designed and built the engine
the suspension

So who really did the meat of the work? All those Subaru folks or the guys from Toyota who TOLD Subara what to do and what Toy wanted, then watched/advised along the way? That's how I look at it. MacArthur gave orders and made the battle plan, but his army did the work.

Thank Toyota for the plan, thank Subaru for the end result.

Who designs it, who builds it, who makes it are arguably different things.

Consider OS/2 the operating system from IBM... built by Microsoft.
OSX... is it Berkley Software Division or Apple? Is the iPhone Apple or Qualcomm?
Seat, Audi, VW etc. are all mostly made by the same German motor group.

If the car was 100% designed and commissioned by Toyota (not saying it was) but the parts and construction sourced and carried out by Subaru, does that make the car Toyota or Subaru?

It's a tricky one., but with other examples from many other industries (all outsourcing to each other) it would tend towards Toyota.

If I am employed by company X and I write software on contract for company Y, then it is usually, company Y's software.

But as in a car with all parts working together (ie engine, drivetrains, brakes, and Whatnots) is it actually good that the car is mainly Subaru?

I know Toyota is a tried and tested brand for reliability but I'm not sure of Subaru and it's boxer engine as no one in my family has a Subaru.

It's Japanese that's the main thing. On the second hand market over here Jap cars are always a good 30% dearer than European cars due to their reputation for reliability.

Sure it's good, Subaru is a successful company and has a very loyal following, much like any good brand. They've been pretty consistent with just plain, good, reliable cars for a long time. Just like some families will only buy Honda, or Toyota, some will only buy Subaru. Hell, 5 of my last 6 cars have been Subies, and my wife is on her third. We've been happy with all of them.

The boxer isn't a perfect engine, but its built well and has some unique characteristics that work in its favor. The only real reliability problem I've seen with any consistency is the head gaskets around 80k miles on the now outdated EJ blocks. Maintain it well and fix things as needed and it'll last a long time, any engine poorly maintained won't last long. The FA20 is a new design, but with modern engineering there's no real reason to believe it won't last 200k+ miles. It's had a few teething issues but even old "proven" engine designs will occasionally have problems.

I'm pretty sure the enginners, designers, and parts bins from BOTH companies were availible to everyone working on the project. A joint project is a joint project.

As far as I'm concerned the joint project was an overall success and resulted in a quality product. I could careless who takes the majority credit for the car. I'm just happy that I am fortunate enough to be able to afford and drive one and will continue to enjoy my time with my twin.