Originally Posted by Muaddib (Post 1869083)

I was thinking about 7mgte swap due to my past experience with them. The motor is solid long as you replace the oem headgasket with a mhg.

Originally Posted by IAmNotTheDriftKing (Post 1868940)

Someone has to do a 1UZ swap into this car! Someone who is both brave and stupid! It would be awesome to see and hear.

Originally Posted by Muaddib (Post 1869083)

I was thinking about 7mgte swap due to my past experience with them. The motor is solid long as you replace the oem headgasket with a mhg.

Originally Posted by Turdinator (Post 1870234)

I don't think I have heard of many reliable 7M engines. Whether boosted or NA they blew head gaskets.

Originally Posted by GTV86 (Post 1868721)

(SR20's are iron block)

Originally Posted by Poodles (Post 1870418)

Not enough power for the amount of hassle. I also don't agree with it being the best for forced induction (it's still only a 4.0 and it never saw a factory supercharger upgrade)

Originally Posted by IAmNotTheDriftKing (Post 1870600)

While they aren't massive, they are pretty strong! Just like Nissan's VH45, it was built for racing. You get a forged crankshaft, forged rods stock, and 6 bolt main bearings!! Not to mention their pretty light, and they sound great!

http://youtu.be/D1TDNOo_1Pw

I think the big problem with the 1UZ is the parts you can get for them. . . there isn't much. Hopefully there will be more though in the coming years!

Originally Posted by Muaddib (Post 1869083)

I was thinking about 7mgte swap due to my past experience with them. The motor is solid long as you replace the oem headgasket with a mhg.

Originally Posted by SomeoneWhoIsntMe (Post 1870737)

the 7mgte is a huge pile of fuck, they're not solid with a headgasket or with anything else, and you're smoking crack if you put one back into a mk3 supra after you pull it out let alone put it into another car let alone an FT86

Originally Posted by Grim-Reaper (Post 1870742)

The 7M-GTE can be absolutely reliable with an Ajusa head gasket and opening the partly closed cooling channels that weren't used. Plus other mods if you want like electric water pump, new electric fans...
But I stick with you that it's not a great choice for the 86.
It's big, heavy, old and it needs some mods as well to really gain power.
My Toyota mechanic over here in Germany owns an Mk3 Supra like me. Daily driven 7M-GTE, built to >450hp and fully street legal. But the money and time spent to get there...

Originally Posted by GTV86 (Post 1870749)

There are parts. You just won't find them at Walmart or on ebay. Kelford have about 10 off the shelf cam options, for stock ecu, race NA, FI, and everything in between. They're also able to advise on a custom grind. I was in there the other day, and the UZ cams are still one of there more popular moving lines.
You can buy pistons and rods, valves and springs. ITB manifolds. Flywheels. Bellhousings to suit common gearboxes. Headers. Modified stock looms. Wiring kits with Links.

What more parts do you need!



7M is the older generation straight 6's that lead to the JZ. They have their good and bad points, but they don't suit the purpose of this thread (that being lightweight toyota V configuartion motors)

Originally Posted by GTV86 (Post 1868721)

Foreword: Hi. I'm going to use this thread to provide information to people considering swapping out their motors for Toyota V motors. I'm going to focus on these motors only, as this is where my own knowledge and interest lies.

I'm sure similar threads for JZ and LS swaps will appear as the people doing these swaps choose to share their information.

Please bear with me as I put populate this information, and my own build thread. I don't have time to sit and do it all in one hit.

While the goal of this information is to provide facts to those interested, no doubt I'll slip in the occasional opinion.

Not intending on it becoming a step-by-step walk through or a DIY. It's more about putting all the relevant information together so that one can make an informed decision. Many of these motor swap options have very little information online, as the majority were found in JDM cars only, and some only in uncommon cars sold elsewhere.

FAQ...

Q. The FA20 is all alloy and is really light. Won't a motor swap add a lot of weight and ruin the handling?

A. Short answer? No.
Long answer, let's break it down.
For a start, my FA20, full dressed, with gearbox was a smidge over 220kg. I didn't bother splitting the motor and box. I know the box weighs a bit over 40kg. That puts a dressed FA20 at 180kg.
Let's talk about those two weights.
Firstly, is the FA20 light? NO.
My sr20det redtop, dressed, with a turbo on the manifold, and a 5 speed box was less.
My 3SGE Blacktop Beams dressed, which is a genuine 200whp NA motor (with some work) which is an iron block, and superior to the fa20 in every way, weighed less as well. This was with a j160 6 speed, which is very similar to the GT86 box.
Admitidlly, both combos were only marginally lighter (literally a few kgs) and the 3SGE had a very light flywheel, that if it had the OEM would've made in a couple of kg more than the FA20) but the point is that the FA20 is not the featherweight everyone assumes it is.

A GR family motor, is around 15kg more than the FA20.
A UZ family motor, is around 30kg more than the FA20. (All are at least double the displacement)
A UR family motor, is around 40-50kg more than the FA20 (depending on which UR you're comparing.
Keep in mind we're comparing to a stock FA20. Adding power to it adds weight. Whether its a turbo system or a supercharger system. These FI systems can weigh 20kg or more.

Q. I've seen some weights of conversions already, and they add more weight than that.
A. I agree. Above we're just comparing motor weights. Often these conversions have added stronger gearboxes, more cooling, bigger wheels are tyres etc. Exactly as you would need to do to a boosted FA20 (to keep it realiable) Of course you could run a similar weight box, and minimal cooling to keep the weight down if you were really worried about it.

Q. Even if it isn't as light as it should be, its was made a boxer because it has better CoG.
A. Let's not fall for the marketting too hard here. Its a boxer because its a Subaru. Toyota just lent them a diff and some direct injection, then slapped their badge on it. If the car was a Toyota, they would not wasted their time developing a new motor layout when they had the 3SGE beams, the 2ZZ, and if they wanted something larger, one of the GR units. All of these motors are superior to the FA20.
If you truly believe the car received a boxer for CoG reasons, they ask yourself why it was mounted 200mm further forward than it needed to be. Surely if they were so concerned about CoG and balance, that's something they would've addressed? (By the way, the FA20 was installed where it was, almost certainly because it was easier to assemble and service. But it was done at the expence of ideal placement.

Q. Why a Toyota V6/V8? Why not an LS?
A. Toyota make exceptional motors. They have done since the 70's. The LS motors are certainly a great option for this platform and I don't discount them at all. Some people prefer DOHC V8's, others would rather a pushrod V8 as it saves quite a bit of weight and space. (As a point, an LS motor is similar weight to a UZ motor, but has significantly more displacement) Another major consideration is availability. LS motors came in very few cars sold in my part of the world, yet we get flooded with JDM imports, and so have an abundance of their parts. A UZ motor is far cheaper than an LS here as a result. The opposite maybe the case in your area. If both motors we the same price, same availabilty yada yada, would I choose an LS over a UZ, possibly. It's not all power and torque numbers, other things are important to some. How it delivers that power, how it sounds. Again in that respect, some prefer DOHC, some prefer push rod. Some might just want to put a Toyota engine in, so the car feels more like a Toyota. This isn't really my motivation, but know others think this way.

Q. What about wiring and tuning?
A. Will answer later

Q. Whats a vauge costing on such a motor swap
A. Will answer later

Originally Posted by eikond (Post 1873052)

I appreciate the OP putting so much time and energy into sharing information on Toyota motors.

I'm not sure I agree with all his opinions on which motors are best, but he does share some fantastic data and information.

The only issue I have that I would call out as simply incorrect is referring to the COG. As @Jaden points out a couple posts above this, the COG benefit from the boxer motor is not one of front vs. rear weight bias. Rather, it's a measure of weight from bottom to top of the car. The FRS/BRZ's center of gravity is 18.1 inches. That's lower than the Porsche Cayman and lower than a Ferrari 458 Italia for example. This was the focus in engineering this chassis and this is what the FA20 motor was designed for.

Any other engine swap will increase the center of gravity height and that will have an adverse effect on handling.

I'm not saying the extra power doesn't make up for it in lap time or that other motors are easier to maintain or can handle more power, etc.. Those are all very valid points. But at this point in time, I think adding power to the FA20 is the best bang for your buck and you keep that COG as low as possible. We all know Moar Lower is Better!

Originally Posted by GTV86 (Post 1873111)

I don't think I incorrectly referred to COG. I agree that it means centre of gravity. The reason while discussing this I started to talk about balance was to prove that COG was NOT the reason the boxer was chosen. Because if it were, they would also have been as equally focussed on maintaining front/rear bias, which is equally important for handling, and as I explained, could have been better allowed for in the fact that the motor could've been mounted 200mm or more further back then it was. But it wasn't because it was easier to put it where they did.

The boxer engine does have a low COG. But that wasn't why it was chosen. It was chosen because the car is a Subaru, and the motor was their next gen motor. The COG was just something they could then market after the fact. As being "we chose a boxer to keep the COG low, which is good for handling" (Again, not denying that low COG is good for handling, or that a boxer has low COG) I'm saying that if they truely cared so much about handling, enough to govern the congifuration of motor used which would give the lowest COG, then in my eyes, they would have also have been equally focused on front to rear balance, which could have been much better acheived by mounting the motor further back than where it was.

I see a lot of people arguing this point about centre of gravity, good handling etc. But it seems more about self-justification. Put it this way, if you really cared about the centre of gravity, and view it as the golden goose of handling, then why are these same people usually running stock - 20mm lowered cars? Lower car means lower centre of gravity. Because they've also accepted the forum hype of "lowering the car more than 20mm is bad" which is in part true. Its the suspension geometry of the car that works in that ideal range, not the car. You can lower the 60mm, and correct the suspension geomtery back to the ideal range; yet now you're 40mm lower, with the same geometry. Ditto with smaller wheels. 16" and 15" both fit over stock brakes, and even the AP Sprint kit. Smaller wheel, Smaller overall wheel/tyre diameter; equals even lower COG. You don't need to run big wheels and big tyres.

But a COG purist that points out the boxer as being superior , is almost certainly not doing either of these points I mention above. Also, once you've got the car that low, the aero effects, particularly from a difuser, are hugely increased; which have even further positive effects on handling.

So yes, I do understand COG quite well. But I also think it's a bit rich pointing out its value if you're also running stock to near stock ride height, on 18" wheels.

Not a direct dig at you @eikond btw.

Originally Posted by tahdizzle (Post 1873214)

I have been toying with ideas for making more power in my BRZ.

I still have not made my decision, but the idea of keeping the car N/A and just tuning it sounds better and better the more I drive my car.

Increasing the weight and adding to the CoG height by turbo or supercharger is becoming less appealing to me.

Originally Posted by GTV86 (Post 1872840)

Not sure what 1uz's you have experience with (if any)

1uz doesn't need money spent on it to take a turbo. Just bolt a turbo to it. It's a solid motor.

Originally Posted by GTV86 (Post 1874681)

You can buy a 1uz for a grand. Put a cheap t04 on it. Easy 400kw.

If you can weld and make your own manifolds, then it works out extremely good $/hp.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that if you do a motor swap, that you'll sell the fa20 and box for more than the new motor and box will cost.

I was warned about the internet mechanics on this forum, but I didn't expect it to be this bad.

Originally Posted by GTV86 (Post 1874681)

You can buy a 1uz for a grand. Put a cheap t04 on it. Easy 400kw.

If you can weld and make your own manifolds, then it works out extremely good $/hp.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that if you do a motor swap, that you'll sell the fa20 and box for more than the new motor and box will cost.

Originally Posted by GTV86 (Post 1874681)

I was warned about the internet mechanics on this forum, but I didn't expect it to be this bad.

Originally Posted by AJPG (Post 1873965)

Dudes

Really an engine swap this far in the twins life?!
As others have post you can get 300 whp with FI and pump gas, also could be done in a week of lazy work (compared with swapping) or with more time/$ could get a built engine with an spicy 690whp from 7k to 9k RPMs, ...at that whp traction is scarce... :(

About the CoG... prefer 18" and 53:47 over 20" and 50:50, but I think it would make a marginal difference that won't be notice from 99.9% of us. We'll I could note difference with the AC on/off (up hill 1st gear 1/4 throttle then tern off the AC), also when the car is full or empty (right after filling the tank)... That's for DD.

OP always good to see new ideas! IS 350 or F swap, that would be different/interesting.
Any suggestion for a easy trany swap? That sounds bad Lol
For the FA20? Maybe the F trany? Lol

Originally Posted by Manji (Post 1875041)

Lol. His car is going.

Originally Posted by Turdinator (Post 1876359)

Yet another thread with good information deleted because people wanted to argue with the OP. Who cares whether you personally think a Toyota engine swap is good value. If OP is sharing information on what he has done don't tell him he is wasting time and money. Not everyone wants an FI FA20. Not everyone lives in the US with LSX motors available for $5 at the corner store.

Originally Posted by Manji (Post 1876596)

Reading the thread before it got trimmed, I can see why he got frustrated.

First he tried to make it clear that he would need some time to put his information online.

Then he start's getting roped into 7M vs 1UZ discussions, which he politely came out and said "We're not discussing straight 6 iron motors here" but it continued.

He was also then questioned as to whether he even understood 'centre of gravity'; which he clearly did, and further explained why he went off on a tangent while discussing it; yet it still continued.

I'm all for hearty debate, but I also don't go to my lawyer and argure law with her, I listen. If I do, they'll get sick of me fairly quickly. That's what happened here.

Tony did come here himself, but it was me that told him to, as he's a knowledgable guy. Everyone is an expert on the internet, and that's how he's taken it; but equally that's how he was taken. He's the type of guy that receives nothing from being here, he's a contirbutor that I think we need more of.

Ideally, I think he would've been better to do a project thread first, perhaps to gain some respect. But he took it the other way and jsut wanted to put info out there. Possibly because he saw a project thread as showing off, IDK.

It's a shame. Some people can handle forums, others can't. Often the people that can't, are people that are usually paid for there serivces or opinions; and so take it badly when they're providing it free of charge for the benefit of all, and then being questioned.

You guys would probably be interested to know, that he only went 1UZ as the development work he had done with Kelford on his fa20 had such poor results, that he realised the fa20 was not going to be a good NA motor. They struggled to get it to 225whp if I recall correctly, which might sound like a lot, but they put so much $ into it to get it there; much more than most would spent. Tony said to me that less money would get a 3SGE Blacktop to 250whp or more.

As a result, Kelford (and the other main camshaft guys who have all experienced the same results) have postponed their NA package releases, and focused on cams for boosted FA20's; and Tony decided to stay NA, but look into motors that could get him to where he felt the car needed to be. The result of which was his build, and the information he was trying to put here for others.

Anyway. I don't think that anyone in particular is at fault here. Just a case of nit picking taking its toll.