FRS VS BRZ
 

Hello my dearest of fellow forum members,

It has been quite some while that I have been deciding between the FRS and BRZ and as such have spent much time lurking this very elaborate forum.

It is now apparent to me that the BRZ and FRS are very similar cars but that the BRZ handles better and is equipped with features that are more attractive to me including push start button.

However, having searched on Craigslist, it also appears to me that the FRS is an easier car to sell. I cannot find any BRZ models for sale in Vancouver, BC. Is it true that this car is harder to sell?

I am bummed that I cannot find the Monogram FRS series as this satisfies all my needs. The next best thing is the BRZ.

Please advise. Many thanks, Nick

:popcorn:

The handling point of the brz is kind of moot because they can both hugely benefit from some slightly wider, stickier tires and a tiny bit of low. That said, I bought an FRS because I'm not about to pay $3,000 more just for some subie badges which I could swap myself for 60 bucks and 30 minutes tops. I personally didn't need all the bells and whistles since I'd be gutting the car anyways for track use. Either way, it's an awesome car, I'm just not paying subaru prices.

What?

Why would the BRZ be harder to sell? Because you don't find any for sale? Does not compute...

I think what you are finding in your area is the opposite of what you are writing. There are not any BRZ's for sale because they are popular (supply and demand).

Look, the cars drive very close to the same. You are splitting hairs here. It comes down to what features you want and what price you are finding these cars for.

They actually handle pretty much the same, its only the characteristics of the suspension tuning that differs where the BRZ is more Subaru oriented being more in favour of grip while the Toyota tuning is more oriented towards the namesake of the AE86 to drift easier, these differences however are slight and don't make any car superior to one another.

I think Vancouver is probably a more difficult place to buy it used because its probably like Toronto where the car is actually popular. There are more Toyota dealers over Subaru ones giving an advantage to the Scion version in terms of pure numbers. I was helping my sister car shop the other week at a Subaru dealer and they were down to their last 2014 BRZ. The less vehicles available for sale, the better or easier it is for whoever is selling such a vehicle due to rarity. If you see a ton of listings, it means the market for that car is oversupplied with not enough demand, vehicles like that tend to be cheaper so from what you're saying the FRS is a harder sell.

Blame Scion Canada for being dumb in this instance. They made it a limited edition but unlike the US they limited the colours we got as well. I got red as that was at least my 2nd choice colour, I actually wanted blue. The Monogram spec should've been a trim level for all FRS models, compared to a BRZ Sport-tech there's nothing hugely unique that the Scions got apart from the head unit and the Scion spoiler, in fact its technically missing fog lamps and the trunk liner. Its one of those instances where it being under Toyota they'd avoid this whole problem, no more stupid monospec meaning they can offer the cheap base car and also offer the better equipped version giving us buyers more choice! What a novel idea.

Simply go for the BRZ because you want the extra options and you know what, I personally think they're worth it. Unlike the Monogram your bargaining position is a lot better as the Subaru dealers are allowed to negotiate a price and Sport-techs aren't limited editions...therefore you can shop at any Subaru dealer and not worry about losing out. There is the Aozora Edition for the BRZ if you like limited edition stuff, but that one I don't believe is as easy to negotiate down. The FRS for me was the better choice after they announced the Monogram because my dad had existing Toyota dealer credit which knocked a acceptable amount off the car's purchase price. Had I not had that credit I'd be in a BRZ.

Easy decision;

FRS - No mustache
BRZ - Mustache

Do you want a mustache or no mustache?

There are no BRZs for sale because people are happier with their Subarus and aren't trying to sell them. Ergo, Subaru is better.

This, Peopel with mustache's love subaru's.

People w. mustaches = speds

I head have a beard = i am a sped x2

I am partial to the part where Toyota honors warranties, and saddened that Subaru tries so damned hard not to.

Sad.

I live just across the border in Bellingham WA and each dealership down here has several Scions at any time, including Monograms. :-(

No mustache ∴ FRS?

:sigh:

I believe you are confusing grip with understeer.

I wouldn't really call it understeer either.
I would just say it's easier to induce a rear skid in the FRS than the BRZ.

You've obviously never taken a BRZ thru a set of transitions.

So what's the verdict?

Used Scion Monogram or new scion 2015 model or 2015 BRZ?

What would you guys do in my place?

Whatever fits in your budget best and whether or not you're entirely too vain to go with Scion badges or you HAVE TO have Subaru badges.

get a focus...

Here's a list of differences between the 2013 FRS and 2013 BRZ Limited. Both MT.

I wanted a white FT86, so I used them for price comparison. At first BRZ's were selling over MSRP, while Scions fixed price policy prevailed. Now BRZ's are going for under MSRP, some for nearly what a FRS runs. Pricing includes destination fee. One thing FRS gets BRZ doesn't is 3yr/30k free scheduled maintenance.

FRS Whiteout
$25,475

BRZ Limited SWP
$28,265

MSRP Difference
$2790

My Difference
$2225

So what did I get for the extra $2.2k?

-Cosmetic Differences-

• Leather trimmed Alcantra Interior
• Silver trimmed interior
• Interior Courtesy Lights (doors)
• Trunk Trim
• Fog lights
• Side scuddle
• Antenna
• Black gage's
• Trunk Spoiler
• Front bumper (IMO BRZ with lip spoiler > stock FRS, but stock to stock FRS wins)

-Functional Differences-

• HID headlamps (Automatic) with led strip
• LED daytime running light strip
• Lighted vanity mirrors
• Color matched interior (refers to the clock, climate controls, gauges, and radio all lighting up red)
• NAV head unit with SIRIUS, HD Radio, DIVX video playback
• Push button start
• Keyless entry
• Digital dual climate control system
• Heated seats/mirrors
• Anti theft security system
• Spring rates

Ultimately the differences come down to whats important for you. Because this was going to be my daily driver, I wanted all the upgrades, and was willing to pay the extra $2k. Additionally the BRZ is rarer than FRS, with a 1:3 production ratio. If this was going to be a weekend/autocross/track car, I would have gone with an FRS

FRS=Driver BRZ=Cruiser 😉

Keep looking, if you want eh extra features. BRZ are more limited because of lower production.

4 reasons why I chose the FRS over the BRZ... 1. IMO front fascia on FRS looks better, 2. all the Subaru dealers around here had crazy mark-up (+$5K over MSRP) and I didn't feel like haggling. 3. Went to Subaru dealer, 30 minutes later not a single saleman to be seen, went inside and no one helped me... left and went to Toyota. Toyota dealer customer service > Subaru dealer customer service. 4. Price again, got a "used" 2014 FRS w/ 900 mi for $23700 OTD. same BRZ will haggling (down $5K) ~$30K.

Everything else was immaterial, heated seats blah, push button start blah... etc etc not for $7k, thanks but no thanks.

Out of curiosity, what is this under-hood trim?

If it happens when you aren't trying, that's called oversteer.

If it's easier to do it just because you want it to, that's called neutral handling.

If the car prefers to plow before it drifts all 4 transitioning into a turn, that to me, has always been extremely frustrating.

I'm not a super track-day warrior. I'm just a middle-aged family guy doing ok with a tiny bit of disposable income who as always deeply appreciated a fine set of wheels. I chose the FR-S because of what I read and because the front-end looks nicer.

...oh, and because my wife was sick of looking at my rustbucket Eclipse, no matter how impeccably I maintained it under the hood.

That sir is a typo.

No, I have not. I would love the opportunity to trade off for a couple laps with someone I trust to get a first-hand opinion.

That being said, if it's just a difference in spring-rates, I'm guessing the difference can be felt by only the most experienced of drivers. Probably not me.

.

Decided on the BRZ lads. Ordering a white 2015 normal model.

It'll come to around $33,000 with all fees. Is this a diabolical price or on the contrary very appropriate?

Many thanks.

Can get a Whiteout FRS for 23 but whatever floats your boat ;)

For 33 I'd much rather have a WRX.

Thats $30,513 US Dollars. Seems high to me, but not sure about your taxes and registration fees.

I know there are dealers like Clint at Neuberger Motors in Colorado Springs CO that sell BRZ's for thousands under MSRP.

No I can`t. Not a brand new 2015 version anyway. Correct me if I`m wrong though. :burnrubber:

Just bought one ;)

That's great, but he is in Canada. You are in Georgia.. Prices in Canada are considerably higher...

It's a difference that can be felt even by a merely decent driver.

Yes, in a single corner instance (straight, corner, straight) The BRZ may feel like it understeers relative to the FR-S

However in a sequence of corners the BRZ's chassis remains composed whereas the FRS starts getting out of shape and overly tail happy. It's fun if you know how to handle it but it's also slower.

Saying the BRZ understeers is a gross misstatement however, relative to just about any car you'll drive the BRZ is not what you'd call understeering car even in the single event scenario. Any understeer is easily sorted with the gas pedal.

Do you like sausage or tacos?

If you prefer the latter then get an FR-S. :thumbsup:

Can confirm. You definitely don't need a racing superlicense to be able to feel the difference in handling. We had an FR-S for 91 days, it got T-boned, and we got a BRZ, and the difference is easily noticeable even when driving at 7/10ths on a windy road.

The BRZ is neutral, meaning it is capable of both understeer and oversteer. You control this by manipulating the gas and brake pedals to transfer weight to the tires you want to have more grip. Just because the ends don't immediately try to swap when you enter a corner too fast doesn't mean "the car understeers".

All of these posts have their merrits.

But, if anyone is that concerned with suspension dynamics then they are most likely going to be changing the stock suspension anyway.

Not sure if you meant this the way I'm reading it, but IMO this isn't the definition of neutral. Otherwise a heavily-understeering 135i would be considered neutral because you could get it to power oversteer or rotate through trail-braking.

I think the commonly accepted definition of a neutral car is one that neither understeers, nor oversteers, in a steady-state corner. All four tires will lose grip simultaneously. I don't think any car these days is truly neutral, as even the FR-S will steady-state understeer for the most part.