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-   -   Syste!m too lean bank 1 (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69291)

jonbonazza 07-03-2014 12:15 AM

Syste!m too lean bank 1
 
So do I have a faulty o2 sensor, or is something else wrong?

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Fastbrew 07-03-2014 02:35 AM

Stock or modded?

jonbonazza 07-03-2014 02:38 AM

Sorry probably should have mentioned. Here is the mod list that for the engine:
Invidia N1 cat back
Invidia catted FP
Motiv OP
FT86SF catted header
AEM intake
ECUTek tune

Nothing has changed in a month or so. Just came on on the drive home from work today.

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Fastbrew 07-03-2014 02:53 AM

Geez - hate to make guesses but it could be a ton of stuff. Maybe as simple as the sensor but possibly dirty or faulty injector(s). Maybe the tune needs a little tweak.

I'm going to step aside and let a pro give you better advice but I would start with the cheap stuff and move up the chain. Dealer might not be much help :)

jonbonazza 07-03-2014 02:55 AM

Yea, i need to do another logging run anyway, so i figure ill monitor them at the same time. If the sensor was bad though, wouldnt the logs be skewed?

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jonbonazza 07-04-2014 12:52 AM

Okay so I did some logging this evening and the afrs regularly went into the 15s. Also, every time I shifted or let off the gas (but NOT stopped in neutral) my afrs were exactly 20. I think this is just how the reading is done. This was using the Torque app for Android.

What is considered "too lean" for this car?

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Fastbrew 07-04-2014 01:31 AM

I think this is too lean ;)
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56141


I only pointed that out to show how long it takes to actually do major damage.

What fuel do you usually run?

PS - that sounds very lean to me :) Again - someone may tell me I'm wrong but crikey....

jonbonazza 07-04-2014 01:43 AM

91 is the best I can get (easily) in my area. I feel like it's too lean too, but it's weird that I have been on this tune for a couple thousand miles and this just happened out of nowhere. I was informed, however that if it was the o2 sensor, a second code would be thrown as well, and I am assuming the same for a fuel injector, so I guess I'll get some EcuTek logs and hit up my tuner.

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Fastbrew 07-04-2014 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbonazza (Post 1829349)
91 is the best I can get (easily) in my area. I feel like it's too lean too, but it's weird that I have been on this tune for a couple thousand miles and this just happened out of nowhere. I was informed, however that if it was the o2 sensor, a second code would be thrown as well, and I am assuming the same for a fuel injector, so I guess I'll get some EcuTek logs and hit up my tuner.

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Yes - and maybe get a read from something external to the vehicle on that AFR.

What has your MPG been like?

jonbonazza 07-04-2014 01:52 AM

How do you read afrs external to the ecu?

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Fastbrew 07-04-2014 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbonazza (Post 1829358)
How do you read afrs external to the ecu?

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Device in the exhaust reads and calculates. Same way they used to measure emissions at the DMV before plugging into the OBD port...

jonbonazza 07-04-2014 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fastbrew (Post 1829361)
Device in the exhaust reads and calculates. Same way they used to measure emissions at the DMV before plugging into the OBD port...

I see. Hmm okay. I'll need to locate one of these devices, I suppose.

Fastbrew 07-04-2014 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbonazza (Post 1829364)
I see. Hmm okay. I'll need to locate one of these devices, I suppose.

Good luck and take it easy until you figure it out. Something is def not right.

jonbonazza 07-04-2014 02:06 AM

Also, if it means anything, Torque reads this for the "rediness":

http://imageshack.us/a/img820/606/46gp.png

extrashaky 07-04-2014 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbonazza (Post 1829349)
I was informed, however that if it was the o2 sensor, a second code would be thrown as well

Usually when an O2 sensor goes bad, you get an O2 sensor high voltage error.

jonbonazza 07-04-2014 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by extrashaky (Post 1829374)
Usually when an O2 sensor goes bad, you get an O2 sensor high voltage error.

I see. Any ideas on what this could be then? Is it really just my tune?

Fastbrew 07-04-2014 02:10 AM

Oh - what's your MPG been like? Has it been around an avg of 20MPH?

jonbonazza 07-04-2014 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fastbrew (Post 1829379)
Oh - what's your MPG been like? Has it been around an avg of 20MPH?

I honestly never monitor my MPG. I don't have a very long commute (maybe a mile each direction), so the only real miles I put on it are on the weekend.

Fastbrew 07-04-2014 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbonazza (Post 1829382)
I honestly never monitor my MPG. I don't have a very long commute (maybe a mile each direction), so the only real miles I put on it are on the weekend.

You can check it on your dash if you scroll through the readouts. Anyway - I was just curious. If it was something like 35 or something - then you might be pretty lean....

I just saw a lot of people get 30. I guess I am a bit of a hoon.

Anyway GL!

jonbonazza 07-04-2014 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fastbrew (Post 1829385)
You can check it on your dash if you scroll through the readouts.

Just checked and Avg. is 14.8. Not sure how long that takes into account though because most of my driving is city (SoCal, so lots of stop and go) and I have been to a track day every month for the last 3 months.

nelsmar 07-04-2014 02:23 AM

Was your intake installed before or after your tune? Was anything installed after your tune? Do you have any logs? Preferrably ones that involve a bit of driving (more than just a full throttle pull). I'll gladly take a peak for you. The AEM intake cheats the MAF and if you were tuned pre-intake and installed it your maf reading can be off thus leaning the engine out.

15AFR is normal under cruising / idle, the ecu goes into closed loop and will swing in certain ways for multiple reasons. Also going over 19AFR while engine breaking or engine decel is normal it is actually the ecu shutting off the injectors completely and the sensor simply doesn't have a readout for "no fuel".

nelsmar 07-04-2014 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbonazza (Post 1829387)
Just checked and Avg. is 14.8. Not sure how long that takes into account though because most of my driving is city (SoCal, so lots of stop and go) and I have been to a track day every month for the last 3 months.

14.8 AVG or 14.8 at that moment? There are two readouts. One for avg one for the currently being consumed calculation.

nelsmar 07-04-2014 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fastbrew (Post 1829338)
I think this is too lean ;)
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56141


I only pointed that out to show how long it takes to actually do major damage.

What fuel do you usually run?

PS - that sounds very lean to me :) Again - someone may tell me I'm wrong but crikey....

lol... Epic response. :P

jonbonazza 07-04-2014 02:26 AM

That's the average.

nelsmar 07-04-2014 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbonazza (Post 1829398)
That's the average.

How long ago did you reset that...???

And any logs?

jonbonazza 07-04-2014 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nelsmar (Post 1829400)
How long ago did you reset that...???

And any logs?

I have never reset it manually. Unless unplugging the battery will do so... In which case about 2pm today. Haha

steve99 07-04-2014 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbonazza (Post 1829401)
I have never reset it manually. Unless unplugging the battery will do so... In which case about 2pm today. Haha

Removing battery terminal will reset ecu and clear DTC/CEL codes as well as reset learned fueling and ignition timing parameters and a bunch of other counters.

listen to @nelsmar you need to get some logs of general driving to see what going on.

as nelsmar said AEM intake will require MAF rescale or you could get problems and CEL codes you describe was it installed after tune ? also leaky exhaust gaskets near either 02 sensor or engine can throw readings off and cause rich/lean issues did you use new gaskets when headers installed if you re-use the originals they tend to leak after about a month. ??

If you can't do propper logs (torque is a bit slow refresh rate and cannot log all the required parameters) take it back to tuner before it gets worse and more expensive.

If it was me I would not be going WOT with that cel code coming up.

jonbonazza 07-04-2014 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve99 (Post 1829424)
Removing battery terminal will reset ecu and clear DTC/CEL codes as well as reset learned fueling and ignition timing parameters and a bunch of other counters.

listen to @nelsmar you need to get some logs of general driving to see what going on.

as nelsmar said AEM intake will require MAF rescale or you could get problems and CEL codes you describe was it installed after tune ? also leaky exhaust gaskets near either 02 sensor or engine can throw readings off and cause rich/lean issues did you use new gaskets when headers installed if you re-use the originals they tend to leak after about a month. ??

If you can't do propper logs (torque is a bit slow refresh rate and cannot log all the required parameters) take it back to tuner before it gets worse and more expensive.

If it was me I would not be going WOT with that cel code coming up.

AEM Intake was installed before tune. Tune took intake into account. Brand new OEM Subarau gaskets were used for header and OP. I can take logs using ECUFlash software. What RPM ranges do you suggest I log?

steve99 07-04-2014 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbonazza (Post 1829425)
AEM Intake was installed before tune. Tune took intake into account. Brand new OEM Subarau gaskets were used for header and OP. I can take logs using ECUFlash software. What RPM ranges do you suggest I log?

see what it looks like idle to 4000 rpm log long term &short term fuel trim, rpm, load ,mafv, throttle, AFR, commanded AFR

see if the ltft are less than 10% and that the commanded AFR and measured AFR follow each other under load. If your ltft is over 10% under load and the commanded AFR and measured afr are way off then something is wrong. If maf scaling has been done correctly ltft should be less than 5% or possibly less than 3% under load.

did the cel come back after ecu reset

check for air leaks on intake and that maf sensor seated correctly and is clean, especially if you run an oiled filter

Do you have ecutek map switching ? are you on correct map, you did not switch back to stock map or something ?

jonbonazza 07-04-2014 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve99 (Post 1829430)
see what it looks like idle to 4000 rpm log long term &short term fuel trim, rpm, load ,mafv, throttle, AFR, commanded AFR

see if the ltft are less than 10% and that the commanded AFR and measured AFR follow each other under load. If your ltft is over 10% under load and the commanded AFR and measured afr are way off then something is wrong. If maf scaling has been done correctly ltft should be less than 5% or possibly less than 3% under load.

did the cel come back after ecu reset

check for air leaks on intake and that maf sensor seated correctly and is clean

Do you have ecutek map switching ? are you on correct map, you did not switch back to stock map of something ?

Okay ill get those logs stat. Cel did not come back, but code came back as "pending". I do have map switching, but they are all the same tune with various racrerom features afaik. I have never actually switched the map.

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jonbonazza 07-04-2014 05:00 AM

@steve99 what can you gather from this ECUTek log? Looks fucked to me, but wanted to get another opinion...
https://www.sendspace.com/file/xosw4a

EDIT: Is it possible to allow us to attach CSV files to posts?

s2d4 07-04-2014 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbonazza (Post 1829479)
@steve99 what can you gather from this ECUTek log? Looks fucked to me, but wanted to get another opinion...
https://www.sendspace.com/file/xosw4a

EDIT: Is it possible to allow us to attach CSV files to posts?

use datazap.me

jonbonazza 07-04-2014 05:24 AM

http://datazap.me/u/jonbonazza/bad-tune?log=0&data=5-16

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s2d4 07-04-2014 06:23 AM

Your fuel trims are pretty bad....
Who is your tuner?

jonbonazza 07-04-2014 06:28 AM

Graham from FT86 SF. Its an etune that was still being worked on. Thats the 3rd or 4th revision.

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s2d4 07-04-2014 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbonazza (Post 1829519)
Graham from FT86 SF. Its an etune that was still being worked on. Thats the 3rd or 4th revision.

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on what fuel?

jonbonazza 07-04-2014 06:43 AM

91 pump

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s2d4 07-04-2014 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbonazza (Post 1829524)
91 pump

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Can you also upload the previous logs you sent to him?

I am not quite sure what he is doing if this is the result of 3-4 revisions and your setup hasn't changed and haven't had any hardware issues.

jonbonazza 07-04-2014 06:51 AM

Ill upload them in the morning. Thanks!

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steve99 07-04-2014 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s2d4 (Post 1829526)
Can you also upload the previous logs you sent to him?

I am not quite sure what he is doing if this is the result of 3-4 revisions and your setup hasn't changed and haven't had any hardware issues.

agree long term fuel trims look rubbish -8 to +15, if he has not developed a hardware fault or exhaust/intake leak tune does does not look good after 5 revisions.

might be worth pulling maf sensor and cleaning just in case


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